# Teachers Strike. Seriously? Teachers, feel free to chime in here. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2005, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175 "2005-01-11T05:25:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/221 "2005-01-13T09:22:00Z")
Just to chime in, parental involvement has indeed been cited in numerous studies as a very important component. Teachers are often not even able to do their jobs properly if the parents of a student won’t meet them half way. Too many parents view teachers are glorified baby sitters. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/222 "2005-01-13T09:27:45Z")
Now that we’re five pages into the thread-let’s go back to the beginning. **buttonjockey308** expressed his upset with teacher strikes more than anything, and if I understand his position correctly he views teachers to be an essential public trust, as are police, fire, and EMS services. What if the fire department didn’t show up when you called 911? How would you react if you punched those three digits and heard, _I’m sorry, but the emergency services dispatching center is currently closed owing to a labor dispute. Please deal with your problem on your own._ Obtaining and maintaining a degree in education is hard work, without question. Does the possession of a degree grant a higher privilege? If so, what about those firefighters, LEOs and emergency health care workers who are also degreed? Most of us also have a commitment to continuing education, even those unpaid professionals as myself. The suburban Philadelphia district in which I lived until 10 years ago is rife with the sort of action which I believe was the root of the OP-that being each district trying to outdo the last, with strikes if the ante isn’t upped. The last few contract settlements I’ve read of in places such as Central Bucks, Council Rock, Neshaminy, and New Hope-Solebury are significantly more than a starting police officer or firefighter earn. Is being a teacher a tough job which requires a special type of person? Without question. I wouldn’t want to try to manage 30+ youngsters for 7 hours every day while trying to teach them something useful. The flip side-how many teachers died in the line of duty during 2004? Can’t answer that question, but I do know that 107 firefighters did. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/223 "2005-01-13T09:35:58Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > What if the fire department didn’t show up when you called 911? How would you react if you punched those three digits and heard, _I’m sorry, but the emergency services dispatching center is currently closed owing to a labor dispute. Please deal with your problem on your own._ Obviously firemen and cops deal with life or death situations every day. Teachers rarely if ever do. As such the comparision is somewhat spurious. > [@danceswithcats](#): > > The suburban Philadelphia district in which I lived until 10 years ago is rife with the sort of action which I believe was the root of the OP-that being each district trying to outdo the last, with strikes if the ante isn’t upped. I don’t understand, how do districts try to one-up each other? > [@danceswithcats](#): > > The last few contract settlements I’ve read of in places such as Central Bucks, Council Rock, Neshaminy, and New Hope-Solebury are significantly more than a starting police officer or firefighter earn. How does their salary relative to a cop’s or fire fighter’s matter except to say that we’re probably paying them too little, too? Moreoever, a cop or fire fighter doesn’t have to go to school to get a degree, there should be some reward in terms of starting salary for that. > [@danceswithcats](#): > > The flip side-how many teachers died in the line of duty during 2004? Can’t answer that question, but I do know that 107 firefighters did. But what exactly is this supposed to prove? ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 9:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/224 "2005-01-13T09:38:01Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > Some of the actual evidence provided (which was minimal, it appears that ad hominem attacks are easier to make) has been interesting, some of it pursuasive. On the whole, I found much of it from biased sources, and much of it does not say what the deliverer thought it did. At least three posters included links in their posts which supported their viewpoints and knowledge of the subject. In essence backing up what they’ve been saying. You however have provided ZERO cites for your claims that “most teachers” aren’t credible and that their claims are bullshit, etc. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/225 "2005-01-13T10:02:06Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > It’s very simple - Miller was disingenuous. If you read the quote, Miller said that by accusing most of a group of whining (or lying) about how hard they work, I was saying to every teacher that they are a liar. No he didn’t. And FTR, anyone who’s posted for ANY length of time, and has even the remotest grasp of reading comprehension could see that \*\*Miller is nothing if not shoot from the hip honest. As your very own words show, you did in fact call people HERE liars and “call bullsit” on what they said. In your very first post, you were already insinuating that “most” teachers were not being truthful. **Miller** was pointing that out, not trying to correlate some bizarre **Slyfrog** world math about how most of this doesn’t equal some of that or whatever. And I’m not some little groupie buddy of **Miller’s** either, I’ve been spanked pretty hard by him for saying something stupid before. Again, I wasn’t crazy about his harsh delivery, but the man is honest. > [@](#): > > Of course Miller couldn’t handle that. So he changed what he wrote. Suddenly he throws out the race card, and says, “Hey, if you said most blacks are X, wouldn’t you have a right to be pissed off if you were black?” No he didn’t, he made an attempt to pierce the immense void of your ignorance by using this amazing tool called an “analogy”. An Al O geee. Can you say it? I knew you could. Even merely saying “most X do Y” as you have repeatedly is in and of itself INCORRECT. You have not provided ANY hard data regarding what _most_ teachers do, or do not do. Therefore, for you to state “most teachers X” is not only false but an insult to the members of that profession. It is very MUCH like stating most [insert minority group here] do X, where x is some evil thing. So \*\*Miller was right on the money with his analogy, unfortunately, you don’t have the wit to understand it. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/226 "2005-01-13T10:08:22Z")
> [@Happy Lendervedder](#): > > And congrats on the Godwin thing. Cherish it. Relish in it. You’ve earned it. psssssst, I know this is gonna sound totally newbie…but…who’s Godwin? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/227 "2005-01-13T10:24:48Z")
> [@CanvasShoes](#): > > psssssst, I know this is gonna sound totally newbie…but…who’s Godwin? [Godwin’s Law](http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/faqs/godwin.html) ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/228 "2005-01-13T10:48:01Z")
> [@SlyFrog](#): > > Please, instead of saying “HappyLender posted,” please either show me the line (you can find it in my original text or copy it from HappyLender) where I call all teachers liars? I’m more than willing to stand behind my statement that most teachers are not overworked; it’s not the same thing. Each and every one of the quotes from you, that **Happy** put in his post says this. What exactly do you think saying "I call bullshit"and “that’s not credible” in direct response to what someone has said means? That you’re patting them on the back? > [@](#): > > Thank you. One of the amusing parts of this thread is that there’s a large number of people who seem to think that rather than actually debating something on the merits of the written text, writing things like, “You’ve lost! You’re out there! You are wrong, and a fuckhead,” is somehow a winning argument. As I have done before with others’ rhetorical styles here, let me attempt this debate method on you: Oh, you mean kind of like where I actually have cites, links of hard data for my viewpoints and you have provided nothing? Yeah, funny how just “because I say so, and I know for sure” don’t quite work for you in those cases innit? > [@](#): > > “You are really something, you know that? I thought you are reasonable, but now it is clear that you are not. You are so far out there, I’m not even sure that 20 psychologists with Ivy degrees could fish sane out of you.” > > Oh yes, I have said powerful words - that means I win. I’m just astonished at the depth of your ignorance, I have still have no dislike or anymosity for you. And I find it really funny that, now that I’ve figured out just how deluded you are, suddenly I’m no longer "reasonable. > [@](#): > > I don’t know Snookums, how much clear could I be when I say there is nothing in the text quoted where I discount **every** teacher here and in the real world? Please find my statement where I say that **every** teacher is overstating how hard they work, and how little they are paid? Go ahead, find it. I’ll wait, because it’s not there. I don’t think that. No one is on your case because you said “every”. They’re on your case because: With a mere “case study” of 30 teachers you claim you “know it for sure” what teachers’ lives are really like. That in direct response to teachers here, you say such things as “I call bullshit” and “that’s just not credible”. That you throw out the word “most” as if it could somehow, just by you saying it, be true, but you offer no actual hard data for this supposition. > [@](#): > > The incredible thing is that you have great material. All you need to say is that I’m dead wrong that even most teachers are paid an acceptable salary and are not overworked. But you can’t handle that, you can only handle making up your own strawmen where I said that every teacher is lazy and overpaid, because that’s the only way you can create a nail that fits the argument that you want to use. Find a different hammer; some have actually tried to argue against what I’ve said, as opposed to what they wanted me to say as a strawman. 1.) I did provide hard data sites that show that you’re dead wrong about “most” teachers. 2.) No one has said you said “every” as I cover above. Talk about a strawman. > [@](#): > > Nope. I’ve said I call bullshit. That I don’t find it credible. I’ve said it about the majority of a group as a whole, rather than every member, . Well, thank God you can at least admit ONE of your instances of mispeaking. Because the line I answered was that you DID claim that all you did was say “take this with a grain of salt” when what you actually posted was FAR from that. > [@](#): > > and I’ve also said that I tend to discount stories of woe and destruction in the teaching profession. If that’s flat out war for you, then I stand by my original assumption. Flat out war for you means someone even questioning the credibility of the “overworked underpaid” party line First of all, the teachers who posted here posted their actual circumstances in response to the OP who made references to how cushy their jobs were. They weren’t trying to use it to get more money, or to whine, or anything else, they were disputing the idea, as descrbed by the OP that their lives were “cushy”. Second, that’s not flat out war. Again, as I’ve stated over and over, I have no dog in this fight, I’m not a teacher (university instructor yes, but that is in NO way related to the public school system, whole 'nother animal), and I know of no teachers and have none in my family, so my only “dog in this fight” is that of fighting ignorance, and you have an overwhelming supply of that. Third, I provided actual CITES stating the reasons and some of the stats for teacher burnout, in the top are long hours, and lack of equitable pay. In the attempt to divest you of your ignorance, this point has yet to be made, (but again, was included in my cites), but many of the wages for teachers “top out” at a certain amount. So, unlike the similar white collar jobs that I cited, there’s nowhere to go but burnout for teachers once they hit their salary cap. 35k sounds great to start, 53k? Not so great after 30-40 years of faithful service. So their “enough” does have room for improvement however much this causes cretins like you to chomp sour grapes. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/229 "2005-01-13T11:12:18Z")
> [@Bill H.](#): > > **FinnAgain** wrote > I guess I don’t understand. I proposed that parents pay money to send their kids to private school because they want them to have a higher education. I think that’s a pretty logical assumption. If you don’t believe it’s logical, why do you propose they send them there? I agree that religion can be an issue, so let’s ignore religious schools for a minute: > > Why do you propose a parent would ever pay to send their child to a non-religious private school, if it weren’t for a better education? Status, keepin’ up with the Joneses… Tradition, because that’s where dad went, and granddad and so on…and in keeping with that… Because it’s one of the prep schools that is a stepping stone to Ivy League colleges Sports Convenience (I had my daughter in private school for her kindergarten year because they had a full day for kindergarteners, public school did a half day)… Safety For All girls, or All boys to try and keep kids chaste. Like the example of sports, for any school that offers a specific specialized program, ala Juliard fo the Arts And sadly, some reasons that aren’t so nice such as to keep segregation alive. I’ll bet other dopers can think of other reasons as well. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/230 "2005-01-13T11:25:58Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > [Godwin’s Law](http://www.killfile.org/~tskirvin/faqs/godwin.html) OOOH 😃 I’ve seen this, just didn’t know that’s what it was called. DOI :smack: I kept thinking it referred to some long ago banned doper or something. ---
**Author:** ![Gail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Gail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gail)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/231 "2005-01-13T13:09:46Z")
I always thought one reason parents sent their kids to private school is because the chances of their kids getting into a “bad crowd” are less. Well, parents perceive this, anyway. What a lot of people don’t realize is that private schools don’t have to take everybody and educate (or try to, anyway) everybody. My understanding is that private school teachers get paid considerably less than public school teachers…but because they tend to have more motivated children whose parents are supportive and they can kick out the extreme behavior problems, their job is easier. My neighbor’s daughter goes to a small private Christian school. As far as I can see, she’s not learning more than she would at a public school (unless you count the religion classed). And, according to her, the kids aren’t very accepting and friendly…so much for educating with Christian principals; she could save her money and get that at public schools. That’s just my personal bias, though. ---
**Author:** ![altiod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@altiod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/altiod)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/232 "2005-01-13T13:40:03Z")
> [@Happy Lendervedder](#): > > So-- hey teachers, are you listening?-- these are your options: > > 1. If you don’t like it, you can leave. Just like a stock broker who doesn’t like where he’s working. Result: kids in many districts are left with a shitty teacher pool. > > 2. Bend over and take it because you have a higher purpose. Result: Very unhappy, oftentimes financially strapped people who are dedicated to, and good at, improving our children’s lives. > > 3. Stand up, not be willing to accept shitty pay and shitty working conditions, not accept swill, and not get walked over. Result: Have fucksticks throw crucifixion metaphors at you, have people call you whiny, and have people generally shit all over you and think you’re selfish and greedy. > Using a #2 pencil (that the district may or may not provide) please pick one. 1b. Leave the US and keep teaching. I sit in a faculty lounge in Bangkok with a bunch of American teachers who will never return to the US to teach. Some have been here over ten years and still bitch about how bad it was in the US. Funny that the Canadian teachers tend to go back home after a few years, it must be better there. I took home the same money that I made waitressing when I taught. If I had stayed a waitress I would not have incurred those massive student loans so I was really making less money. So after being laid off and re-hired a few times while living in my crappy studio apartment and being shit on I decided that enough was enough. I could stop teaching and go back to school for something I didn’t want to do or I could leave. I take home the same money in a _third world country_ working for the government as I did in PA. The difference is I now no longer live paycheck to paycheck, I live in a decent apartment and I don’t even have to buy supplies out of my own pocket. Also, the culture here actually respects teachers: instead of parents asking me why I can’t fix their kid during the school day parents will apologize if their kid is not behaving. The idea of a child not behaving is radically different here too, it’s talking during class instead of trying to set a classmate on fire (It happened in my classroom.) I also get to write my own curriculum, teach it as I see best and my employer not only acknowledges that I am doing my job well but gives me Christmas and birthday presents, caters meetings with good food (not cafeteria crap or pay for yourself) and the teachers have a monthly luncheon with the president of the University. Can’t say I’ve even ever met any superintendent I’ve worked for. Be grateful to those who stay. My school will be recruiting soon. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/233 "2005-01-13T13:42:52Z")
> [@altiod](#): > > Be grateful to those who stay. My school will be recruiting soon. Sounds like an interesting gig, can you give me any more info or a website? ---
**Author:** ![Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f0a364/32.png) [@Fuji\_Kitakyusho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji_Kitakyusho)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/234 "2005-01-13T13:45:58Z")
> [@hazel-rah](#): > > A group of laborers who have wisely formed a union, and as per the most basic tenets of the free market are increasing the value of their labor? One could argue that another one of the most basic tenets of the free market is my ability to fire someone who doesn’t show up for work, and replace them with someone off the street who is willing to do the same job for less money. What does the union think about that? Oh, right. ---
**Author:** ![altiod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@altiod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/altiod)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/235 "2005-01-13T13:54:20Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Sounds like an interesting gig, can you give me any more info or a website? Damn, if you were in the US, you would have proven my point. That only took two minutes. Check out my website in my profile for some bare bones info and leave a message if you want. My school’s site is in Thai. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/236 "2005-01-13T13:54:45Z")
> [@Fuji Kitakyusho](#): > > One could argue that another one of the most basic tenets of the free market is my ability to fire someone who doesn’t show up for work, and replace them with someone off the street who is willing to do the same job for less money. What does the union think about that? Oh, right. One could also argue that both are tenets of a free market and that a free market exists at the dynamic intersection of various forces which sometimes oppose each other. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/237 "2005-01-13T13:57:50Z")
> [@altiod](#): > > if you were in the US Born and raised, currently residing in Texas (I miss Gotham city). > [@altiod](#): > > Check out my website in my profile for some bare bones info and leave a message if you want. My school’s site is in Thai. Will do. Two questions. 1. Is there language training or are applicants expected to come to the position with a command of Thai? 2. Is your username an intentional misspelling of altoid, or am I missing something? ---
**Author:** ![SlyFrog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a3d4f5/32.png) [@SlyFrog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlyFrog)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/238 "2005-01-13T14:10:19Z")
> [@LissyLou](#): > > Whoa, hold up! This thread is 5 pages long. Millers’s second formulation? Quote or link, please, there’s no way for anyone besides yourself to know what specific exchange you are referring to. > > Also, why do you get to decide if you are in the group I’m insulting? You’re not letting anyone else decide if they are in the group you are insulting. Unless you are trying to say that only the one’s who believe they are guilty of what you are claiming can be in that group, and anyone who knows they are innocent should not take offense. Is that it? It’s been in about every post I’ve put up on the subect, including yours. I quoted him (from rough memory) at least 3-4 times. I’m done posting. Whether people just aren’t getting it, or (as I think is more likely) they do not want to read it because it’s written proof that he was wrong, is now beside the point. The first time Miller spoke, he said (paraphrased, I’ve give the exact quote too many times now) if you say most teachers are lying, and I am a teacher, you’ve just called me a liar. It was only the second time that he changed what he purportedly said to if you say most teachers are liars, and I’m a teacher, don’t you think I might be insulted. I never disagreed with the second formulation, for reasons I’ve exhaustively stated already. At this point everyone is either having fun being intentionally obtuse, their petty biases will not allow them to admit what was clearly written, or they honestly cannot comprehend what is written. I’ve stated it enough times; I’m fully comfortable with the written record. ---
**Author:** ![altiod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@altiod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/altiod)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/239 "2005-01-13T14:11:36Z")
Thailand (and many other countries) are seeking native English speaking teachers. Some schools prefer Brits but a US teaching certification is worth a lot in many markets. Some schools recruit from abroad and don’t expect people to know how to speak Thai, although a few people have degrees in Thai Studies. Not that common, as I never knew it existed until recently. Elementary education is the most in demand here but they tend to prefer women teachers for those jobs. (Women expats are also much rarer so it’s also a status thing.) I was altiod in a previous non-dyslexic life. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teachers-strike-seriously-teachers-feel-free-to-chime-in-here/284175/240 "2005-01-13T14:51:12Z")
So sorry that I’m only getting back to this. I had to go home last night and help my daughter do her homework while my wife worked on lesson plans. > [@Bill H.](#): > > Tenure is evil, leading to young fresh teachers being laid off while old jaded ones cling to jobs they don’t deserve. The right to strike is evil. The general government work ethic is evil. Hyperbolize much? > [@](#): > > Private schools are forced to compete against each other and against the public schools (they must beat the public schools, or why would anyone pay money to send their kids there?), and forced to deliver a higher quality product. Private school teachers compete for jobs amongst each other. Competition delivers a higher quality product. That’s just what it is. Well, what you claim is competition is not. A public school **has** to take you. If you live in the district, have your shots and filled out the paperwork, you’re a student. Private schools, on the other hand, can kick your ass to the curb due to behavior, or they can simply refuse to accept you from the go. Competition doesn’t have a damned thing to do with it. > [@](#): > > It’s immoral because our children, our society, our future is sacrificed for the better of people who are generally good, kind and decent, but not doing a terribly demanding job, either in terms of work or in terms of qualifications. Being a good person isn’t enough reason to get something undeserved for free on the backs of our children. Again, the hyperbole. However, as **FinnAgain** has already admirably pointed out, since you’ve not taught children, then you’ve nothing on which to base your belief that teachers do not do a demanding job. And there have been plenty of teachers that have posted to this thread who say that it is most assuredly demanding. > [@](#): > > people pay money to send their kids to private school. > > That’s the proof. They pay money, when they could get public education for free. Why would anyone pay for something when the government will give you an alternate for free? Do you believe they’re doing it out of the goodness of their heart, that they just enjoy giving money away? Well, as **Happy Lendervedder** already pointed out, public education is not free. As to why parents would send their children to private school, I will add what I mentioned, above, that private schools can eliminate behavior issues. Also, private schools don’t have to provide educations and appliances for special education students, thereby freeing up a whole helluva lot of money that can be spent on, well, pretty much anything. > [@](#): > > y’wanna back this up? or just leave it lying there? It’s already been backed up. Repeatedly. > [@](#): > > Any work is honorable work. But some work is harder. Hear! Hear! Tell you what: You try teaching for a time, then come back and tell us all about those teachers who are making more money than they deserve. And which job is harder. Sure, you’d have trouble, but I’ll wager that you’d also respect them far more than you do right now. > [@](#): > > But in terms of raw hours, it’s just not that tough. And it’s a relative short-term stress, in the sense that when the day is over, it’s over. You may have tests to grade or class to prep or other requirements, but generally the stress is all about the class time. And short-term stress is WAY easier than long-term stress, the sort where you’re constantly dealing with ongoing long-term problems. Again, you are light years from being right. The cold light of right will never reach you. Are you serious? “When the day is over, it’s over.”? Have you read any of the posts on this thread? > [@](#): > > But more pertinent to this thread, I think it’s fair to say that private school teachers are paid less than public school teachers. I base this on discussions I’ve had with a number of public school teachers and private school teachers. Also, a while back we had this discussion (in another forum), and cites came up that backed this. I don’t have said cites. Can’t speak for anyone else, but I don’t require cites. I know more than a couple of private school teachers, too. > [@](#): > > I’m fortunate, in that the school district I’m in has a lot of well-to-do families, and as such, there’s a lot of private money that goes into the public schools, and there are a lot of parent volunteers. Like 2 days a week or more, there will be one to four parents in each room helping out with things. My wife volunteers a couple days a week herself, and I volunteer once or twice a month, and also help for five or ten minutes every morning if there’s something quick that needs doing. Brother, you ain’t fortunate. You’re outright blessed. Teachers with that sort of support oughta be slipping you furtive sexual favors. Although I’m kinda curious what you mean when you say, “. . .there’s a lot of private money that goes into the public schools.” Do you mean that parents slip teachers a fifty when no one’s looking? That tax rates are higher? I’m trying to imagine such a thing. > [@](#): > > But also, I think private school environment fosters an attitude where people work harder. Maybe because they know that they can be shown the door because they did something that the school doesn’t care for? 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