Teachers Strike. Seriously? Teachers, feel free to chime in here.

The BBQ Pit
41

Oh bullshit. A 2.5 month vacation is not the same thing as being laid off for 2.5 months. You still get the same amount of money per year, but YOU have the option of getting a short term gig for extra money or going on a month-long vacation to Australia (like a teacher friend of mine) that everyone else in the workforce just dreams about. You can also take the classes you need to maintain your certification over the summer rather than at night like other professions. You were not presented with a weekly or monthly salary when you made your decision and suddenly find the summer taken away from you. You’re presented with an annual salary, and GET that annual salary and get a lot of time off during the year.

My opinion is that teachers don’t work harder or less hard over the year than other workers. They generally work longer hours during the week, grading and planning and such, but get many more weeks off than the average employee.

Honestly, if it really were that shitty a job, there would be massive shortages of teachers, given the apparent low wages.

42

But they don’t, and there’s no reason they should be forced to. It’s called bargaining. Life sucks, get a helmet.

I’m not going to sit here and tell you teachers are worth $100K a year, because that’s bullshit, nor am I going to sit here and cry and sob for the poor teachers for how hard they work. I work long hours too and I don’t bitch about it because grownups are supposed to work. But if they can get a better deal by striking, well, that’s what living in a free country is all about. Who am I to begrudge someone else’s negotiation strategy?

43

There would be far less antagonism from Teachers unions if they simply instigated the approved disciplinary methods I submitted to the white house on the back of a vomit stained cocktail napkin in the year of our lord nineteen seventy six.

First infraction = Detention.
Second infraction = Wash and wax my car so fucking clean the birdshit slides off without leaving a fucking smudge.
Third infraction = Full frontal lobotomy.
Fourth infraction = Death by Uumbah*

Simple, effective and guaranteed 100% effective. Why it’s not standard procedure I don’t know. I did jizz on the napkin and fashion an approximate likeness of Gerald Ford out of the glutinous smegma which may have caused offence. Still, it’s no reason to block a good idea.

[sub]*If you get this then you are a sick, sick, evil person who needs to seriously re-evaluate their life[/sub]

44

Is this a whoosh? Because I don’t know where you are, but that’s certainly the case here.

Look, I am married to a damn hard working teacher. Blood, sweat, and tears go into her job. But from what I’ve seen, parents, and by extension, the school boards, just don’t care. Especially in lower income areas, school is looked upon as nothing more than day care. Teachers get little sympathy, because on average, they make more than the parents of their students (many of whom live on public assistance). So what happens? The district superintendent wins election on a platform of ’ raising standards and lowering teacher pay.’ I shit you not.

So to me, a strike serves the same purpose as a suspension or Saturday school- it makes life inconvenient for the parents, so they stop taking things for granted. I doubt that the same service is needed for police or fire protection.

45

Your position is not an actual reason to be so bent out of shape. You are claiming that the no-strike clause that police & fire have should also apply to teachers because they’re civil servants; however, there is no obvious reason why your claim of similar circumstances actually obtains. Specifically, police and fire do emergency services when people’s lives are on the line; teachers do not.

It is interesting that when negotiations don’t come to an acceptable solution, you blame teachers without any supporting evidence that they’re at fault. Are you next going to tell us that Barak really did turn over every stone?

Since you seem to be unfamiliar with the concept, let me note that strikes are generally bad for both parties. Unfortunately the relatively small cost of a strike in terms of marginal costs coupled with the fact that talk is cheap puts both sides in a situation where a strike may be their best options.

46

Babysitters are paid to look after children so parents can work. Teachers are paid to educate children even if parents don’t work.

It drives me mad that many parents think that school is a babysitting service and any learning is a happy coincidence.

47

Well, since I’m not a teacher, but only married to one, and since most of the points made by those who teach or have taught line up with my own, there’s not much for me to say.

However:

I dunno what it’s like in your world, but I’ve seen way too many levies shot down to believe for even a moment that, “people don’t have a choice,” inre their taxes. And when it’s explained to them that voting down is equivalent to screwing their children, I’ve had too many people look me in the eye and say, “I don’t care, it’s the teachers’ problem.” As a matter of fact, I’m a little curious how it works when, as you say, the entire school district is funded by property taxes, which only increase. Does the public just pay those property taxes? Are there never tax increases that are voted on?

I’m also a little curious where one would have to go to find a surplus of teachers. Because I know damned good and well that it’s not anyplace that I’ve encountered.

48

As far as I’m concerned, the benefits and pay we give our teachers is a direct reflection of how much value a society puts in an educated populous. Teachers SHOULD be far more than glorified babysitters. This is why we require them to obtain bachelors degrees and (in Canada at least) a follow up 12 -24 month teacher certification. Name another profession that requires 5-7 years of school at the university level where the renumeration is so low. As far as I’m concerned, teachers are underpaid, and the only recourse they have is to demonstrate how vital their job is. When negotiations break down, they are left with the option of striking. Now, all of a sudden, every one is up and arms because the teachers aren’t there to do their job? If it is so damn important, then give the teachers the pay and benefits they deserve. For god’s sake, they are saints! They work hard to get their degrees in the anticipation of making a good life for themselves, which they chose to do educating YOUR population!

Why anyone is up in arms about teacher’s striking for benefits and pay they deserve is beyond me. Why not be pissed at the people who failed to negotiate a proper contract before it got to this point!

49

sigh.

edit. “up in arms” and “they aren’t saints”

Good thing I’m NOT a teacher.

50

No school districts have more resumes than openings? I find that rather surprising. You would think that really good districts would attract more teachers than they need and crappy districts would attract fewer than they need.

If I’m wrong, I’m more than happy to have my ignorance fought on this point.

51

*No school districts have more resumes than openings? I find that rather surprising. You would think that really good districts would attract more teachers than they need and crappy districts would attract fewer than they need. *

OP by Cheesesteak

There is a shortage of teachers…right now it is in certain areas and certain subjects…math, science, special education…probably English as a Second Language. There is also a shortage of teachers in urban and rural areas.

The thing about the "good"districts (which are usually the higher socio-economic areas of most districts) is that those teaching jobs are not entry-level positions. People usually start out in the low-income areas.

Which comes to the next point. Teachers in low income areas usually burn out quickly. I’ve been there…well, still am there, actually. You come to work everyday teaching your heart out and still end up feeling that your students don’t care, their parents don’t care…the principal only cares that your students do well on standardized tests.

The statistic I heard in the teacher mentoring program I’m in says that most new teachers don’t stay in the profession for more than five years. (sorry no cite…but Google “teacher shortage” and “teacher attrition”.)

52

Most everything substantive I would have said has been posted, so I’ll just chime in with two things for buttonjockey308:

  1. If you think teaching is such a soft berth, why don’t you do it? It’s just a few years of college and practicum away, right?
  2. Along the way, I have done your job. For free. I was a volunteer fireman from 1981 to 1993. I’ve been in burning buildings, dealt with smoke and toxic fumes, and all the other dangers associated with your job. I’ve been a teacher since 1985. Of the two jobs, teaching is by far the more difficult and stressful of the job. I know lots of folks who became firefighters for fun and excitement; I don’t know any teachers who took the job for those reasons.

I taught in Texas for a number of years, things may have changed since then, but at the time it was illegal for teachers to unionize or to strike. Contracts were whatever the schoolboard unilaterally decided they would be from one year to the next. What were the results? I think these things, at least:
*Texas was near the bottom academically. Based on such things as SAT scores and so forth, we ranked ahead of Arkansas and Missouri, IIRC.
*My district had a 44% turnover in personnel every single year. The losses were made up by recruiting heavily in rust belt states at teacher colleges, but those youngsters quickly got tired of getting screwed and quit too. No continuity of instruction or experienced personnel is not a recipe for academic excellence.

Have a good day.

53

The teacher lobby in this country has elevated whining about the cause to an art form. I mean, they’re really, really good at it.

If you listen to most teachers, they’re working 3000 hours a year, shoveling the snow in front of the school (and clearing out the parking lot too, which is strange, because they can’t afford a car to drive to the school, only their punk students can), blah blah blah.

I haven’t been a teacher (of which I’m happy, because I might ordinarily say that people who throw out the “have you done it” line might typically be deemed a bit subject to a conflict of interest in giving a opinions). I’ve known tons of teachers. It’s not an incredibly simple job, but in most schools it is a pretty sweet gig. And here’s the thing; particularly when you look at the average degree and institution the teacher went to. Like it or not, teaching is, for most teachers I have seen doing the job, commodity work.

If I hear one more person bitching about not making enough money with a worthless commodity bachelor’s degree in english who is making far more than the national average salary for less hours and more job security, I might just puke. Cry me a river.

54

That should read “Of the two jobs, teaching is_by far_ the moe difficult and stressful job.” Revision on the fly followed by imperfect editing inevitably produces such boneheaded errors.

55

I should have quit while I was aherd.

56

Well, Gail responded, so what she said. As to purely anecdotal evidence, when my wife got her latest job, there were two positions and three applicants. While this might look advantageous to your point (more apps than openings), I know that I would much rather have a half dozen or so apps for a given position. Helps in the separation of wheat from chaff. And, dare I say it, makes teachers want it more.

57

So…the public relies on teachers to take charge of their kids so they can go to work, which makes them fucking babysitters. But at the same time, they’re essential public servants. You know, I was truly not aware that babysitting was an essential public service for which there should be a strike lockout.

As for my mother’s “cushy” job…she works roughly 85 hours a week through the school year, plus about 30 hours a week for a month during the summer. Between the teaching, the after-school tutoring, the summer school, and being the coordinator for the tutoring and summer school programs, she makes roughly $40000. That works out to $12.57/hr. The woman has a master’s degree and 32 years of experience, and she’s getting paid at the same rate as a somewhat skilled laborer on a construction site. And for that princely sum, she deals with violent kids, violent parents, people who want her to refer their kid for psychological testing so they can draw a “crazy check” on them, children who come homes such that they’re 12 years old and don’t understand the concept of bathing at least once a week, kids who have been beaten or molested by their parents repeatedly and just keep getting put back in the abusive home situation. Cushy job, my ass. I wouldn’t do that shit for 10X what it pays.

58

I came into this thread ready to breathe fire and chuck brimstone at the ignoramuses who think teachers have it easy, but everyone else beat me to it. I only have a few things to add:

  1. What are these “Summers” that you all speak of? My girlfriend simply has 2.5 month intervals of hot weather working conditions. On rare occasion she’ll work at the beach. Then she’ll go home and work some more. And this Christmas she was a slacker – she didn’t actually work straight through Christmas day, unusual for her.

  2. She can’t strike to protest her contract. 20 years at the same school, and they still haven’t given her a contract.

  3. If anything happens to any one of her students, guess who gets blamed? Guess who gets a lawsuit? Hint: It ain’t the parents.

In conclusion, to all of you who think that teachers have it easy, you are a fucknosed hosebagging scumbucket puslicking maggot-eating scientology-not-hating moon-hoax-believing funk monkey. And you smell like one too.

59

Mr. Superintendent, I presume.

This is the part of your post that kills me:

How is it a conflict of interest when the people actually in the trenches have a voice in deciding what’s best for them?

Let me put it this way: You probably have the right to vote-- for candidates, for referendums, for bond issues, etc. You also probably have an idea of what you want out of life. So the votes you cast give you a voice in how things are run.

Suppose tomorrow, that all the governmental bodies decided there would be no more elections. They figure they know what’s best for the people they govern, they figure they know how to manage the tax money best, so they don’t need to hear about what the people actually want/need. You just lost your voice. And that’s not fair; if your giving up your taxes, you should have a voice, because you have an idea of the fruits you want to see from that money.

Now bringing it back to this labor dispute. The tax money you pony up as a citizen gives you the same right to a voice as the labor ponied up by these teachers. They have an idea of the fruits they want to see from their labor, so they should have a voice in how their labor is utilized/rewarded. If you’re not happy with the way tax money is being spent, you have certain recourses in a democracy. So do (organized) workers. And that’s all a union is: a democracy of labor.

Taxes you pay as a citizen=the labor they offer as teachers. Both things give the corresponding parties the right to a voice.

Not good enough, apparently. When corporations do it it’s called ‘lobbying,’ but when teachers do it it’s called ‘whining?’

60

For the record, my wife got her undergraduate degree from Case Western Reserve University and two (yes, two) graduate degrees from Washington University in St. Louis. Not exactly “worthless commodity” institutions.

For the record, the day my wife was named Teacher of the Month by her school district (for which she received a plaque the size of a postcard) she was walking a picket line. And because she’s a public employee who isn’t allowed to strike, she was served with an injunction at the same time.

For the record, her last pay increase (after several years without one) was less than the increase in her health insurance premiums, so she wound up netting less than she had the previous year.

For the record, she’s been laid off twice since we got married, only to be rehired because even more teachers quit than had positions eliminated.

For the record, she must take courses each year to maintain her accreditation – eating up that cushy summer vacation.

For the record, since the employees aren’t allowed to strike and the schools aren’t required to submit to arbitration, that doesn’t leave a lot when it comes to contract showdowns.

For the record, she’s been bitten, clawed, verbally assaulted, threatened, punched, vomited on and had to clean excrement. She’s not only had to get tetanus shots, but hepatitis shots, and been advised to be tested for HIV. She was exposed to rubelaa while she was pregnant, because a parent didn’t think it was worth keeping the kid home while sick.

For the record, voters have turned down three tax levies in a row. And we live in a comfortable, middle-class suburb.

And for the record, despite the fact that her district has had to eliminate positions, they still have a shortage of qualiofied teachers.

I might just puke, too.