# teaching abstinence vs. sex ed - a poll **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 14, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135 "2004-02-14T00:40:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/41 "2004-02-15T19:34:50Z")
I’m not sure if I was detailed enough in my post. Abstinence would be wonderful in a perfect world. Of course it should be taught BUT sex ed should be more detailed. When I was taught it (around 1969) they just said “The mans penis goes into the girls vagina”. That was that. I never ever knew that “the penis” was supposed to be hard first, they wouldn’t tell us that. Or anythign else. No birth control was mentioned. I leanred about sex from National Lampoon magazine. So, birth control is vitally important. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/42 "2004-02-15T20:02:07Z")
> [@vanilla](#): > > I learned about sex from National Lampoon magazine. You mean their pamphlet “_what every young girl needs to know about sex_” or some such title? With classic questions like: Q. How long should sex last? A. 15 to 30 seconds. Some men, with special training, are now able to break the 60 second barrier. If you find such a man, **don’t** tell your girlfriends that you have one of these “one minute wonders” or they’ll try to steal him. Q. How can I tell if I’ve had an orgasm? A. If, when the man has finished, you’re left with a vague unsatisfied feeling, and a longing for something more, then you know you’ve just had an orgasm. This is the time to go make your man a sandwich. **Now** I’m afraid for what you’ve learned about sex, **Vanilla**! 😃 As for the poll, teach it all! Early! No practical exams in the public schools, though. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/43 "2004-02-15T20:06:47Z")
A couple of years ago, I had this discussion with a group of students at my university while we were hanging around, waiting for class. This entire group were fairly conservative, fairly religious, and every single one of them believed that abstinence was the ONLY way to go, that you should wait until marriage, etc. While I respect those decisions for themselves, I kept pointing out that not everybody would choose abstinence, and for them, other knowledge needs to be made available. What I found most humourous in this discussion, though, was that the one girl who was arguing the most in favour of Abstinence Only had a 6 year old daughter. The girl was 22. Pregnant at 16, she chose to keep the child, the father has provided nothing for the baby, she had to drop out of school and finish her GED later on, and yet she still insisted that absinence was the way to go, for everybody. Clearly it didn’t work on her! When I pointed that out, she called me a bitch and walked out of the room. ---
**Author:** ![boofy\_bloke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@boofy\_bloke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boofy_bloke)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2004, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/44 "2004-02-15T23:37:04Z")
Abstinence: 1. The trait of abstaining (especially from alcohol); 2. Act or practice of refraining from indulging an appetite. You have to be ready to do the deed before you can abstain from it, so sex-ed is not about telling teens to start having sex but what to do once they decide to start. Abstinence and things natural: I am under the impression that almost all heterosexual animals have sex only when the female is capable of conceiving, so animals don’t abstain between ovulations, they CAN’T have sex. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/45 "2004-02-16T02:49:58Z")
Qadgop Ha! No, but I leanred about blow jobs and erections, which they never taught us in school. I had sex at age 26 so was well prepared. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/46 "2004-02-16T04:16:09Z")
**The girl was 22. Pregnant at 16, she chose to keep the child, the father has provided nothing for the baby, she had to drop out of school and finish her GED later on, and yet she still insisted that absinence was the way to go, for everybody.** Who better than someone who got pregnant at 16 to tell people to not have sex that young? She doesn’t have the right to her opinion because she didn’t follow it herself? ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/47 "2004-02-16T04:24:20Z")
It would be okay if they used drawn characters instead of pictures of real couples. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/48 "2004-02-16T04:42:56Z")
As usual, I agree with **Qadgop**. I had your usual pictures-of-diseases sex ed/health class in 7th grade. Can’t remember if contraception was mentioned or not, don’t think it was. Didn’t learn a single thing, except for some quickly forgotten information about the various male glands and the names and transmission rates of a whole lot of diseases. Then I had church sex ed! And we’re Unitarians! That was the first time I remember seeing a diagram of the female genitalia that included the clitoris. It had been omitted from previous diagrams as unnecessary for reproduction. Anyway, About Your Sexuality was tremendously educational. It had (for example) aging filmstrips of straight and gay couples together, engaging in various activities, rather than filmstrips of diseased genitals. Abstinence was encouraged, but not in the “just grin and bear it until marriage” way. Instead, they encouraged masturbation and whatever other form of fooling around that we felt we were ready for until we decided we were ready for intercourse and all related consequences. At the end of the class, they gave us little cards with the address and phone number of the local Planned Parenthood on them. I’m sure I would’ve found out most of the stuff they told me eventually by poking around on the internet, but I’m still very grateful that I got it in that way. At the very least, it gives me good stories to tell. ---
**Author:** ![elfbabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b782af/32.png) [@elfbabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfbabe)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/49 "2004-02-16T04:45:46Z")
The filmstrips, by the way, were not erotic in the least. They were decades old, made with average-looking people, with rather harsh lighting. And they were presented by our director of Religious Education, who I swear could de-eroticize ANYTHING if she tried. ---
**Author:** ![ITR\_champion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c67d28/32.png) [@ITR\_champion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ITR_champion)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/50 "2004-02-16T06:02:22Z")
> [@bouv](#): > > I don’t see why there is any debate at all, is is that hard to teach both? I got taught both in my sex-ed class. They said that abstinance is the only surefire way to ensure no pregnancy or STD’s. They also realized that we were teenagers, and just them telling us not to have sex ain’t gonna stop some of us, so you might as well tell them how to use a freakin’ condom while you’re at it. Yeah, that’s what I got in school and that’s what I think is the best approach. ---
**Author:** ![Alias\_Juno\_Twee\_Celt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a4c791/32.png) [@Alias\_Juno\_Twee\_Celt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alias_Juno_Twee_Celt)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/51 "2004-02-16T16:22:51Z")
I was sexually abused at seven years old. Due to my complete ignorance about anything sexual of any description, not only did I not prevent this, I didn’t \*realise \* that it had happened until I was twelve and was at last given a rudimentary sexual education. Sex ed makes children safer. End of. Having said this, I have no problem with the promotion of abstinence. We were always told it was the only absolutely safe method of protection, and I think that’s a good message to have out there. But saying that doesn’t mean we should promote ignorance. Kids need all the facts in order to protect themselves. ---
**Author:** ![vanilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f19dbf/32.png) [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/52 "2004-02-16T16:34:27Z")
I agree. Education-important. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/53 "2004-02-16T21:18:05Z")
> [@SnoopyFan](#): > > I favor both methods. Drill it into the kids’ heads that they are TOO YOUNG to be having sex, getting pregnant/an STD can ruin their lives/reputations, and that they should wait until they are older before having sex. This will sink in with the kids who have some sense. > **Give** my kid a condom, though, and there’s going to be trouble. That’s MY job. So is your kid one of the 12-year-olds who think that blowjobs aren’t really sex, so it’s okay to have a quickie between classes? Because that’s what [Good Girls Do Nowadays](http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20040207/CENTRE07) Anyone who thinks that pre-teens aren’t having sex is just dead wrong. People on the verge of puberty have always experimented with sex, and they always will, no matter how much any group or individual attempts to preach abstinence. After all, there is a _reason_ that the ancient Hebrews considered a 13-year-old to be a man, and it’s not just because he already knew how to herd some sheep. With that in mind, I’ve always felt that the way my schools handed sex ed-- starting in Grade 4-- was pretty damn good. A full discussion of the biological aspects, including the hormones-- but even more importance went into discussing methods of birth control, including the pill, condoms, and mutual masturbation. ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/54 "2004-02-16T22:34:30Z")
I just realized that the first line on my preceding post may come across as being very mean-spirited towards **SnoopyFan** , and that’s not my intent. Where’s the emoticon for ‘this is supposed to be a thoughtful question, and not a snarky comeback’? ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/55 "2004-02-16T22:41:00Z")
Should it really be either/or? Ideally, there should be full education on the scientific facts of sexuality, _plus_ advocacy of waiting 'til they’re really ready. My position: (1) Teach the science thoroughly, starting in grade school. By the science I mean both the physiology (where babies come from, how come it takes a male + a female, what makes males and females, how Tab A goes into Slot B, how there is variation in rates of development; go level-adequate but make sure they’ve got that down by the time they’re in grade 6) and the “hygiene” for lack of a better word (what can go wrong, what is and is not “normal” in their development, how to take care of the “equipment”; include the facts about STD, pregnancy risk, the varied effectiveness method of preventive and curative means). There, DO include abstinence as the obviuous absolute way of avoiding negative consequences, followed by committed monogamy while using appropriate means, and DO acknowledge that it may be difficult to stick to it. But emphasize (a) both are possible and (b) if you fall off the wagon you get back on again. _And here’s one that is very important_: include units on “sexual mythbusting” , that is, debunking thoroughly any circulating tale about how “you can’t get pregnant/STD from doing XYZ”, or “everybody does ABC” or “you HAVE to do ZYX to be ‘normal’”, or “swallowing \*\*\* makes your boobs grow” or (a fave)“if the boy does not get off he can get injured from the back-pressure”. (2) Simultaneous with this, expand “abuse-proofing” – the curricula on “bad touching” – to include exploitive behavior by peers AND _relationship_ mythbusting. Teach very early, and very clearly, that _nobody is **obligated** to provide any form of sexual favor to anyone else_. That it cannot be demanded or “expected” of them, nor can they demand or “expect” it. Teach of the dangers of predation and rape, and of the risks of getting into a situation where you can soon be in over your head. Teach very early, and very clearly, that other kids are NOT authoritative sources of information (if it were up to me, I’d every so often pick off one of the “experienced” kids, identify some piece of bad info s/he is spreading around, and expose her/his folly in front of the class). Within _this_ curriculum, yes, **DO** advocate and encourage abstinence as the default answer when-in-doubt or when confronted with insufficient data. Notice this has a result of instilling “abstinence” not so much in the sense of virginal celibacy, but in the sense of _discriminating selectiveness_ as to when/how/with whom to have sex, which would be unsatisfying for the more rigid ideologues. But IMO that is still (a) one huge step in the right direction and (b) about as much as most sensible adults really expect insofar as being “chaste”. ---
**Author:** ![boofy\_bloke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@boofy\_bloke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/boofy_bloke)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2004, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/56 "2004-02-16T23:38:10Z")
Abstinence is \*\*not \*\*a foolproof method of avoiding sexually transmitted infection. Many STIs can also be transmitted by simple skin contact. Babies can be infected by their mothers during parturition. Please, be aware of this. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/57 "2004-02-17T03:04:33Z")
i’ve actually been thinking about this recently, as i’m doing a school project on bush’s proposal to implement nationwide drug testing in high schools (bush claims the testing that’s already going on has led to a small decline in illicit drug use among HS students over the last few years; however, the survey backing this up was nationwide, including many schools who did not test; only 5% of high schools test their students for drugs, which is not statistically significant; therefore, bush’s abovementioned claim is nonsense)…anyway, in the project i am recommending a drug education standard similar to the standard sex ed middle school kids get these days: teach that abstinence is the safest and (in some ways) healthiest choice and that abstaining is probably the best choice for you; also, teach ways for the kids to make sure they’re safe if they do choose not to abstain. teens will laugh at abstinence-only programs that deny today’s realities. i think “abstinence first, safety second” sex ed has been very successful in reducing the teen pregnancy rate and teen STD rates. preaching an “abstinence only” method would be counterproductive. ---
**Author:** ![SnoopyFan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@SnoopyFan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SnoopyFan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/58 "2004-02-17T05:32:07Z")
**After all, there is a reason that the ancient Hebrews considered a 13-year-old to be a man, and it’s not just because he already knew how to herd some sheep.** Most ancient Hebrew men didn’t marry till they were pushing 40, and sex outside of marriage was a hard and fast no-no. Sure, _some_ preteens are having sex. The majority, though, are not. Just as some teens are having sex, but the majority aren’t (although it’s probably a small majority). It’s just the ones that are having sex are terribly proud of it and pretty much shout it from the rooftops. The ones who aren’t having sex typically are quiet about it. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/59 "2004-02-17T14:14:24Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > . After all, abstinence was the only type of sexual education that was allowed for most of the 20th century (at least until the 1960s). Everyone was told to wait until marriage. Yet there were still unwanted pregnancies, abortions **(probably at the same rate there are abortions today)**, STDs, etc. **Abstinance education did not work.** Excuse me while I roll on the floor laughing hysterically. If you are alleging that there were [1.3 million abortions per year](http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/roe.wade/stats/us) during the 1940s and 1950s, I am going to have to ask for a cite. Same, if you are claiming that the rate of unwed teen-age pregnancy was equal to or higher than it is now. > [@](#): > > Abstinence is a form of prohobition. It should be noted that prohibition doesn’t work… We should tell our children everything that is known about sex, including how to do it, how to avoid STIs and pregnancy, **how not to do it (e.g. rape)**, how to maximise pleasure, etc. Perhaps you could explain how, since “prohibition doesn’t work”, a prohibition on rape is going to have any effect. > [@](#): > > Abstinence is not a foolproof method of avoiding sexually transmitted infection. Many STIs can also be transmitted by simple skin contact. After years of trying to educate people that you can’t get AIDS from shaking hands, and you can’t get syphilis from a toilet seat, someone has to post nonsense like the above. Why is most of the ignorance coming from the no-abstinence advocates? I thought you were in favor of sex ed! Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2004, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135/60 "2004-02-17T17:38:48Z")
My cynical view is that people promoting these programs are fully aware of the consequences. Abstinence-only people aren’t really interested in reducing teen pregnancy or the spread of disease. They are only interested in sin. If you teach kids how to explore sex responsibly, you are teaching them how to avoid the wages of sin, which are suffering and death. We can’t have that. Kids who have sex, especially girls, are supposed to come out if it with blighted lives. Remember what happend to Jocelyn Elders? How can we hold non-abstinent kids up as terrifying examples if we’ve taught them how to have creative and reasonably safe pre-marital fun? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teaching-abstinence-vs-sex-ed-a-poll/229135.md?page=4)