# Teams Known as "The Indians" **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 25, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100 "2003-03-25T19:57:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![chukhung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@chukhung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chukhung)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/1 "2003-03-25T19:57:45Z")
Does anybody know of a high school or college sports team in America known as “The Indians” in which the team’s symbol is obviously South Asian? I.e., instead of “Chief Wahoo” with a feathered head-dress and tomahawk, it’s something like “Raja Wahu” with a turban and a trisul… I really doubt that there is, but before I make that assertion in a discussion I’m having, I’d like to do a little due diligence. (Because otherwise, as soon as I make such a statement, I’m sure to hear about the East Hooterville Indians, where the cheerleaders all wear saris to the away games…) ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/2 "2003-03-25T20:07:25Z")
As far as I know, there isn’t. It’s a safe bet that the vast majority of schools mean Native Americans when their mascot is an Indian. ---
**Author:** ![TGWATY](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5e925/32.png) [@TGWATY](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TGWATY)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/3 "2003-03-25T20:21:06Z")
related post [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172542](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172542) ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/4 "2003-03-25T20:58:00Z")
You probably won’t find many teams named “Indians” (or “Warriors”, “Braves”, or tribal names), anymore. It’s increasingly considered offensive to Native Americans these days, and some districts have passed rules against it. My HS changed from “Warriors” to “Wildcats” about 10 years ago. So it might be that you would be more likely to encounter an “Indian-Indian” reference among those that remain. ---
**Author:** ![mcbiggins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7c8e57/32.png) [@mcbiggins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mcbiggins)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/5 "2003-03-25T22:38:57Z")
I can see whre the GQ is coming from. To deflect protest, a teams called the “Indians” say their name is based on residents of the Indian subcontinent, and has nothing the do with any native americans (or as we say in Canada, members of the First Nations). Unfortunately, political correctness has become such a major concern that many schools have changed team names that have nothing to do with native americans, but sound like they might. The biggest example was the changing of St. John’s team name from the Redmen to the Red Storm. The problem being that being called the Redmen had nothing at all to do with native american stereotypes. St. John’s is a Catholic school, and were named the Redman after the symbolic colour of Catholicism in Britain. Their big rival was the protestant school Syracuse, still know as the Orangemen. Too bad for them they picked a name that also could be used for a totally unrelated slur. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/6 "2003-03-25T23:06:29Z")
> [@](#): > > The problem being that being called the Redmen had nothing at all to do with native american stereotypes. St. John’s is a Catholic school, and were named the Redman after the symbolic colour of Catholicism in Britain. Someone should have spun that yarn to St. John’s graphics department. ---
**Author:** ![Sofa\_King](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Sofa\_King](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sofa_King)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/7 "2003-03-25T23:17:14Z")
[To elaborate](http://www.news-gazette.com/story.cfm?number=2551): > [@](#): > > The St. John’s University Redmen originally took their name not from American Indians but the school’s red unforms. > > They were initially known as the Big Red Dream, later shortened to Redmen, said Dave Wegrzyn, assistant vice president for institutional advancement. > > The university didn’t adopt an American Indian mascot until the 1940s. > > “A bunch of fraternity members stole a cigar-store Indian, nicknamed him Chief Blackjack and brought him to a game,” he said. “When mascots became popular he was transformed into a live person.” …Which while I admit is an unfortunate turn of events, nevertheless changes the definition of the nickname in a rather spectacular way. ---
**Author:** ![raisinbread](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8491ac/32.png) [@raisinbread](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raisinbread)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/8 "2003-03-25T23:36:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spectre of Pithecanthropus \* > **You probably won’t find many teams named “Indians” (or “Warriors”, “Braves”, or tribal names), anymore. It’s increasingly considered offensive to Native Americans these days, and some districts have passed rules against it. My HS changed from “Warriors” to “Wildcats” about 10 years ago.** I never knew that the term “warrior” meant American indians. Talk about being hypersensitive. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2003, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/9 "2003-03-25T23:39:27Z")
It doesn’t necessarily, but when the mascot is Warrior, most schools choose to illustrate that with an Indian. In fact, very few don’t. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/10 "2003-03-26T00:04:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mcbiggins \* > \*\*…St. John’s team name from the Redmen to the Red Storm… Too bad for them they picked a name that also could be used for a totally unrelated slur. \*\* If this means anything like the “Crimson Tide”, I’d say it’s not so much a slur as a tasteless reference. ---
**Author:** ![cstamets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/958977/32.png) [@cstamets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cstamets)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/11 "2003-03-26T01:05:04Z")
The Miami (Ohio) Redskins changed their name to the Redhawks. There was a faction that was trying to keep the name Redskins, but change the mascot to a redskin potato. That would have been great. ---
**Author:** ![AntaresJB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c2a13f/32.png) [@AntaresJB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AntaresJB)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/12 "2003-03-26T02:01:30Z")
My high school is still the Indians-as-in-Native-Americans and as far as I know there’s never been any move to change it. A neighboring town is the Red Raiders, which is even worse, I think… but they’re very, very, _very_ small rural PA towns, so I guess nobody really cares. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/13 "2003-03-26T02:06:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Controvert \* > \*\*If this means anything like the “Crimson Tide”, I’d say it’s not so much a slur as a tasteless reference. \*\* 😕 ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/14 "2003-03-26T03:52:31Z")
A local (~40 mile away) high school team is named the Indians, and the nearby tribe has no problems with this whatsoever. Some of the schools in the same conference want them to change, but so far they have not. Brian ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/15 "2003-03-26T03:53:40Z")
forgot to add: mmmm, cheerleeders in saris… ---
**Author:** ![Hometownboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5e9695/32.png) [@Hometownboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hometownboy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 7:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/16 "2003-03-26T07:07:23Z")
The high school in my Oregon town still has the Indians team name, though they’ve moved their logo from a ripoff of Chief Wahoo to what looks to be a Plains Indian on a horse. BTW, one of the other three high schools in the county goes by the Redsides, but it has to do with a fish, not a person. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/17 "2003-03-26T07:21:30Z")
[This](http://www.fightingwhites.org/) MUST be included here… ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/18 "2003-03-26T07:34:50Z")
I swear Sports Illustrated did a story on this kinda recently, and it showed that Native Americans in polls had pretty much no real problem with teams simply called “Indians” or “Braves” or “Seminoles”, but objected to, say, the “Redskins” or Chief Wahoo from the baseball team. Can anyone clarify? ---
**Author:** ![Shemem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de053/32.png) [@Shemem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shemem)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/19 "2003-03-26T07:47:16Z")
Sorry, no response here for the specifics of the OP, but Midwestern State University (Texas) has the “Indian” (Native American) mascot. The local Kiowas gave their blessing to use this term some years back, in the '50s I believe it was. (I verified this in the college newspaper archives when I was in attendance there.) ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2003, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100/20 "2003-03-26T10:12:38Z")
A couple years back, we had a local high school here with teams named like that. The students had an extensive, emotional politicized, discussion over several months in the school, and finally the student body voted by a sizable majority to change the team nickname. And to change the uniforms, abandon some cheers (“Scalp 'em, Scalp’em, Scalp 'em all!”, etc.) Then they had to fight with the school board, which didn’t want to do this. When they finally made the change, a representative from a nearby tribe, (which operates a massive casino in the next county, and is a major employer in the area) showed up, and made a speech at the assembly talking about the history of his people, and thanked them sincerely for their concern and the changes they had made. And then ended his speech by saying “we know you will have expenses for new uniforms and so forth, so here is a check for $50,000 from our people as a contribution toward those expenses”. Everyone was astounded; the school board was delighted! ## And the next year, every high school within 250 miles that had anything “Indian” in their nickname changed it, and invited his tribe to the changeover assembly. (Our high schools are very attached to their “historical” nicknames – but even more attached to hunks of cash!) Meanwhile, three smaller school systems in rural parts of our state consolidated, and built a big new high school. They decided to start fresh, and the student body spent much time discussing it, and finally voted for the nickname of the “Blue Devils”. Then they bought new uniforms, had a contest to design a new logo and cheerleading chants, and even painted a giant mural of the logo onto their gym wall. About that time, a local right-wing fundamentalist church decided that this nickname was “satanic”, and started pressuring the joint school board to overturn this, burn the almost brand-new uniforms, etc. So that battle is raging! * * * If this keeps up, we won’t be able to have any nicknames at all for our high school teams. Maybe we’d be safe with just colors? Cheer for The Blues? But people suffering from depression might object to that. And The Reds? – any surviving cold-war warriors would really fight that! And nobody’d want to join a Yellow team! We might be stuck with no name at all – Hooray for us! We’re number one! Go, our team, Go! 🙂 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teams-known-as-the-indians/164100.md?page=2)