# Tebow **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [January 9, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875 "2012-01-09T01:20:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/61 "2012-01-17T20:17:11Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > What are you basing this on? On their numerous boycotts of major corporations, the statements of Jim Dobson in interviews and in his books. His defining of “tolerance” and “diversity” as code for promoting a homosexual agenda. From the text on their website and the newsletters they’ve distributed. The falsehoods they’ve used to further their agenda on myriad religious issues. They speak in absolutes. It’s not hard to discern what FotF is all about. They make no secret of it. Am I expected to document an instance where they simultaneously bashed abortion and homosexuality? Where they shunned a willing supporter who disagreed with just one of their ideals? It’s plain as day in their subtext, if you don’t see it then I can’t help you to. Do fundamentalist right wing groups have a track record of compartmentalizing their beliefs in your view? ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/62 "2012-01-17T20:27:47Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Do fundamentalist right wing groups have a track record of compartmentalizing their beliefs in your view? Yes, because hating gays and hating abortion require distinct, separate actions. If someone hates gays, they push for anti-gay marriage laws. As far as I’m aware, there is nothing anti-abortion about laws like that. Likewise, if I’m militantly anti-abortion, the laws that I seek don’t have a damn thing to do with gays. If I’m both anti-gay and anti-abortion, there isn’t any single message I can put out there that would canvas both opinions. Put your single broad brush down, you need two for this paint job. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/63 "2012-01-17T20:39:01Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Yes, because hating gays and hating abortion require distinct, separate actions. If someone hates gays, they push for anti-gay marriage laws. As far as I’m aware, there is nothing anti-abortion about laws like that. Likewise, if I’m militantly anti-abortion, the laws that I seek don’t have a damn thing to do with gays. If I’m both anti-gay and anti-abortion, there isn’t any single message I can put out there that would canvas both opinions. Put your single broad brush down, you need two for this paint job. You’re missing my point. I’m fully aware that these are 2 disparate issues. Tebow chose to partner with a group that loudly and aggressively advocates both, amongst other distasteful and ignorant views. If Tebow wanted to be solely anti-abortion he could have chosen to partner with one of the many groups who oppose abortion and make no claims on homosexuality in their mission statement. Instead he chose a group that’s most vocal issue is the anti-gay one. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/64 "2012-01-17T20:50:32Z")
Tebow annoys the ever living hell out of me most of the time (mostly because of that commercial), but since he didn’t go on to specifically espouse anti-gay rhetoric and instead went on to specifically espouse anti-abortion rhetoric, I’m going to simply disagree with you. If you want to paint him as anti-gay for not once uttering anything that can be construed as anti-gay, knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/65 "2012-01-17T21:33:06Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > I’d say that if the SPLC or FBI doesn’t think they’re a hate group, you’re being hyperbolic. Funny thing is, even though the SPLC doesn’t officially declare them a hate group, there are plenty of FotF articles taking SPLC to task for declaing them one! Guess they just figure “Well, we’re as much of a bunch of batshit scumbags as a lot of groups on the list, so they probably just forgot to put us on there…” ---
**Author:** ![Hal\_Briston](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a9a28c/32.png) [@Hal\_Briston](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hal_Briston)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/66 "2012-01-17T21:35:42Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > If you want to paint him as anti-gay for not once uttering anything that can be construed as anti-gay, knock yourself out. He painted himself as anti-gay when he became a poster child for an anti-gay group. His call. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/67 "2012-01-17T21:43:01Z")
> [@Hal\_Briston](#): > > He painted himself as anti-gay when he became a poster child for an anti-gay group. His call. Tell you what - you just go ahead and read my responses to Omni regarding this exact same point he brought up, and pretend I’m directing them at you. Then we will also agree to disagree without having to beat the hell out of this pile of former horse. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/68 "2012-01-17T22:04:58Z")
> [@Munch](#): > > Tell you what - you just go ahead and read my responses to Omni regarding this exact same point he brought up, and pretend I’m directing them at you. Then we will also agree to disagree without having to beat the hell out of this pile of former horse. What do you have against a well tenderized horse? I hear you point, but let me just add this: Tebow says basically nothing. Every comment out of his mouth is a carefully crafted piece of PR blather. He takes a stance on nothing. Even the Super Bowl ad was wishy-washy as hell, it was anti-abortion with out ever mentioning it and when pressed on it his camp has said that it’s his _mom’s_ ad, not his. Political propaganda is becoming more PR savvy and more nuanced every day and they are learning that the over-the-top exaggerations and blatantly divisive statements of the 60s are not going to work any more. People need to read the loosely veiled subtext. People may choose not to do this, but that’s either lazy or willfully ignorant. Had Tebow made these same wishy-washy comments in response to a reporter in passing or during some GQ interview, or made some statements on his Twitter feed I’d have probably let it slide. I would probably avoid making too many leaps of logic when stereotyping him in that context. However, he took out a Super Bowl ad with these people. That is just BEGGING people to draw conclusions. You can’t plead innocence when you’re getting on the biggest stage in the world and spending $3M+ to do so. Tebow chose to make himself a political hot potato. He chose to speak on the biggest stage in the world. He invited this critique. Every moment of that ad was careful considered and crafted. It simply isn’t incidental that this group holds the views it does. You can’t acknowledge that Tebow and Super Bowl ads are heavily researched, considered and focus grouped and then turn around and then deny that these dots should be connected. No intelligent person would put themselves in a FotF commercial _during the Super Bowl_ and assume that people wouldn’t presume them to share their political views. It’s textbook branding. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/69 "2012-01-17T23:59:33Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > I hear you point, but let me just add this: Tebow says basically nothing. Every comment out of his mouth is a carefully crafted piece of PR blather. Which is why I asked the question in the first place. Outside of the ad, I don’t know anything about his stance on homosexuality. And the link between doing an anti-abortion ad like he did, and homophobia is tenuous at best. > [@Omni](#): > > He takes a stance on nothing. Every time I hear him speak, I picture some over-excited 7 year old boy who had too much sugar. Everything is great, his teammates are great, the game is great, and Jesus is great. I say this because I’m not sure he actually HAS a stance on anything. Or at least not a well-thought out one. He’ll do as his mom and dad tell him, he believe what his pastor tells him, but I don’t get the impression that he’s big on thinking for himself. > [@Omni](#): > > Political propaganda is becoming more PR savvy and more nuanced every day and they are learning that the over-the-top exaggerations and blatantly divisive statements of the 60s are not going to work any more. People need to read the loosely veiled subtext. People may choose not to do this, but that’s either lazy or willfully ignorant. Subtext? C’mon Omni. Tebow isn’t some super-genius, sending out secret signals that only the super-perceptive can pick up on. He’s a dumb kid with inane parents and next to nothing upstairs. Me, I’m happy with him keeping his mouth shut on political issues. Which is why I’ll wait until more evidence comes out about his views before deciding to pillory him. All that said, I’m sorry I started this hijack. Let’s just all agree he’s a bad NFL quarterback who took some steps this year, but still needs a ton of work to become even a competent QB in the NFL. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/70 "2012-01-18T00:54:05Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > Tebow isn’t some super-genius, sending out secret signals that only the super-perceptive can pick up on. He’s a dumb kid with inane parents and next to nothing upstairs. Oh, I fully agree. But the people who crafted that ad and work in the PR arm of FotF _are_ very smart and know how to leverage Tebow. They fully intended to get their message across and more importantly place their brand in the front of America’s collective mind. Now, we’re left to decide if Tebow and his vapid parents were made aware of this purpose, or if they just came along for the ride blissfully ignorant and just happy to pawn off their sappy fiction. I personally find it impossible to believe that anyone in his position, with intelligent agents, intelligent employees and probably a personal publicist of dubious intelligence was never spoon fed the business plan behind that ad and the political ambitions of his partner. That’s a bridge too far for me. > [@](#): > > Me, I’m happy with him keeping his mouth shut on political issues. Which is why I’ll wait until more evidence comes out about his views before deciding to pillory him. I wish all athletes kept their mouth shut on politics. I’d be much less anti-Tebow if he’d done just that. For the reasons outlined in this thread, I see that Super Bowl ad as a very loud declaration of his political viewpoints. For me, and I say this as a person who’s got a fair bit of experience in major corporate marketing, this ad was a much clearer declaration of one’s beliefs than an off-handed comment that comes from his own lips. You can’t excuse this as being taken out of context or a momentary lapse in judgement or emotional outburst, this was cold calculated and precise. > [@](#): > > All that said, I’m sorry I started this hijack. Let’s just all agree he’s a bad NFL quarterback who took some steps this year, but still needs a ton of work to become even a competent QB in the NFL. If we’re going to have 95 Tebow threads that can’t _all_ be about what a shitty QB he is. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/71 "2012-01-18T01:34:19Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > They are no more comparable than my previous Boy Scout example. All those things you mention serve many purposes, FotF is a fundamentalist christian hate group. That defines them. There are many facets to being a fundamentalist hate group, yet this group serves one and only one purpose, to advance their fundamentalist agenda. Being anti-abortion and being anti-gay for them are not disparate concepts, they are both in the teachings of their twisted version of faith. They have a singular view point. Uh-huh. I’m going to ignore the “hate group” twaddle, since that’s merely namecalling. But I repeat: by your logic, everyone is irrevocably tied to every position and every decision anyone they’ve ever done business with and any organization they’ve belonged to or supported. So, for instance, a politician who speaks at Bob Jones University can fairly be assumed to agree with Bob Jones University on each and every issue … and someone who sat in Jeremiah Wright’s church for 20 years can have all of Wright’s views attributed to him right? I mean Wright has clearly argued that all of his views are part of a coherent theology, a “singular view point,” as you put it; so, by your logic, each and every parishoner shares each and every one of his views. And in the same vein, you can be assumed to share each and every view of each and every organization you’ve been connected to. That’s a small little world you’re living in. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/72 "2012-01-18T01:34:30Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > Now, we’re left to decide if Tebow and his vapid parents were made aware of this purpose, or if they just came along for the ride blissfully ignorant and just happy to pawn off their sappy fiction. I think it’s pure speculation. Before I’m going to ascribe virulent anti-gay views to somebody, I’d like more evidence than an ad on a unrelated political issue. > [@Omni](#): > > I wish all athletes kept their mouth shut on politics. I’d be much less anti-Tebow if he’d done just that. For the reasons outlined in this thread, I see that Super Bowl ad as a very loud declaration of his political viewpoints. Again, pure speculation. I have no problem ascribing a pro-life view to Tebow, but going beyond that is speculation. > [@Omi](#): > > If we’re going to have 95 Tebow threads that can’t _all_ be about what a shitty QB he is. No, but apparently there can be a bunch of threads about how great he is when he has a good week. But after those bad weeks, the silence is deafening. Funny how that works. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/73 "2012-01-18T01:44:57Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > He has the worst looking spiral ever seen in the NFL. Nonsense. His spiral is not nearly as bad as Billy Kilmer’s. And, like Kilmer, Tebow would have been a perfectly good NFL quarterback 40 years ago. Elway is supposed to personally work with him this off-season on arm motion, and pocket sense, and the like. We’ll see. I don’t care what his religion is, what he believes, or what he supports. I want him to be a good quarterback for the Broncos, and evidence thus far suggests that he is not, and will not be. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/74 "2012-01-18T05:01:56Z")
> [@Omniscient](#): > > It’s like saying Wal-Mart and Chick-Fil-A are anti-gay, they are, but few of the customers would have any reason to know this. Forgive me for hijacking the hijack, but I’m just curious how it is that Wal-Mart is anti-gay. I’m just looking for a clue-in, so hopefully it won’t be a continuing hijack… ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/75 "2012-01-18T05:10:47Z")
Can’t we just _Focus on the Tebow_? ---
**Author:** ![Gagundathar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a183cd/32.png) [@Gagundathar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gagundathar)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/76 "2012-01-18T05:11:03Z")
Walmart is anti gay? WOT? That is kind of weird. I can get Chick-Fil-A because the founder of the chain is a staunch conservative Christian who doesn’t even open his stores on Sunday. He is certainly within his rights to do so, but dang it I don’t go there because of that. And the fact that their food is overpriced. \ But Wal-Mart? I dislike them for completely different reasons, but homophobia? Really? CITE ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/77 "2012-01-18T05:30:25Z")
Yeah, did some checking, and it looks like my memory was faulty on that one. Back in the day the Waltons donated a lot of their personal income to conservative christian groups and I assumed that this was still the case, but it appears that the new publicly held company and it’s PAC donate somewhat equally on both sides of the aisle and avoid controversial topics that don’t impact their bottom line. They do play a role in getting conservative state legislatures as they tend to support their free market ideals, but nothing on the more social policies. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/78 "2012-01-18T05:38:07Z")
I don’t think Tebow is doing any more FoF ads, we’ll see. Take a look at these quotes. From [here](http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/01/10/another-victory-keeps-tebow-in-the-spotlight/): > [@](#): > > Tebow has, however, placed himself in the political realm before – two Super Bowls ago when he starred in a Focus on the Family commercial with his mother sharing the story of how she gave birth to him in the Philippines in 1987 after spurning a doctor’s advice to have an abortion for medical reasons. After being criticized for that ad, he didn’t do an encore and instead tries to toe the line of showing his religion without shoving it down people’s throats. from an article about his declining the invitation to endorse any GOP candidates. and a Tebow quote [here](http://www.inquisitr.com/179349/gop-candidates-all-want-tim-tebows-endorsement/): > [@](#): > > “I think you have to have so much trust in who you support, just from product endorsements to endorsing a candidate because if that person or company does something (bad), it reflects on you,” He was what, 21 when he did that ad? I get the impression he got a taste of what that would be like and didn’t like it. I also believe he doesn’t much like being criticized for completing something like 46% of his passes this year. Hopefully he changes _that_. ---
**Author:** ![Omniscient](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omniscient/32/3290_2.png) [@Omniscient](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omniscient)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/79 "2012-01-18T06:21:19Z")
81% of [ESPN.com](http://ESPN.com) visitors, 80,000 votes so far, believe that Tebow will start all or most of the Broncos games next year. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875/80 "2012-01-18T14:38:37Z")
You find that surprising? I wouldn’t say he was very good this season, but the free agent quarterback pickings will be pretty slim and the fans will go ape if they replace him. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tebow/608875.md?page=5)