# Technically speaking, is a cathedral a church? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 15, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644 "2017-05-15T13:05:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/1 "2017-05-15T13:05:40Z")
See query. By “technical,” I assume in the language of designations by the Catholics. The question sounds a little like is Grand Central Station a station or a terminal I guess. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/2 "2017-05-15T13:08:33Z")
Technically, a cathedral is a church that is the seat of the local bishop. It’s not a statement about the size or grandeur of the building. I recall some people in one diocese making ironic statements about their city being a “cathedral city” after a split created a need for a new bishop. The church itself was tiny. > **[Cathedral](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral)** > > A cathedral is a church that contains the cathedra (Latin for 'seat') of a bishop, thus serving as the central church of a diocese, conference, or episcopate. Churches with the function of "cathedral" are usually specific to those Christian denominations with an episcopal hierarchy, such as the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican, and some Lutheran churches. Church buildings embodying the functions of a cathedral first appeared in Italy, Gaul, Spain, and North Africa in the 4th century, Followin... ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/3 "2017-05-15T13:12:53Z")
As above, but christian, not just Catholic. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/4 "2017-05-15T13:30:20Z")
I learned that strictly speaking, a church is the people, not the building … whereas a cathedral is a building as specified by **CalMeacham**. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/5 "2017-05-15T13:32:54Z")
Thanks to both. I thought about non-Catholic, but decided incorrectly against them because I couldn’t remember ever hearing the word used in those contexts, and because the (what seems to me) older hierarchical and legal terminology may have some decisions on that. Also, is “christian-not-Christian” a typo or the correct usage? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/6 "2017-05-15T13:33:59Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > I learned that strictly speaking, a church is the people, not the building … whereas a cathedral is a building as specified by **CalMeacham**. Yes, that would be under _n.2_ in the dictionary. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/7 "2017-05-15T13:55:31Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > As above, but christian, not just Catholic. It still needs to be a church that’s got bishops, such as the Episcopal or Orthodox ones. We’ve all seen lots of pictures of Moscow’s Cathedral of Saint Basil, for example (a lot of people think of it as “the Kremlin”; it is one of the buildings in the Kremlin, and apparently the most photogenic one). ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/8 "2017-05-15T14:00:14Z")
OK, this is getting interesting/confusing. Lutherans don’t have bishops, right? ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/9 "2017-05-15T14:04:25Z")
Apparently… yes, [they](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presiding_bishop) [do](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lutheran_dioceses_and_archdioceses). At least in some churches. This will vary by individual denomination. Microchurches won’t, but in general if you hear that any church is divided/organized into dioceses, it will have bishops. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/10 "2017-05-15T15:23:52Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > It still needs to be a church that’s got bishops, such as the Episcopal or Orthodox ones. We’ve all seen lots of pictures of Moscow’s Cathedral of Saint Basil, for example (a lot of people think of it as “the Kremlin”; it is one of the buildings in the Kremlin, and apparently the most photogenic one). The Church of Scotland has no bishops, but has a few cathedrals, although technically I think they are High Kirks. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/11 "2017-05-15T16:02:54Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > The Church of Scotland has no bishops, but has a few cathedrals, although technically I think they are High Kirks. To be clear, “cathedrals” in the Church of Scotland means medieval buildings built as cathedrals by the Roman Catholic church before the reformation. They came under the control of the CoS, and many of them were allowed or encouraged to fall down, such as at Elgin or St Andrews. The ones in Aberdeen, Glasgow, Dunblane and Kirkwall carried on being used as churches and are still mostly intact. Because of their medieval origins they are still referred to as cathedrals, even though technically they no longer are. The RC and Episcopalian churches built their own modern cathedrals for their bishops in various places in Scotland in recent centuries. St Giles Cathedral in Edinburgh is slightly different from the other CoS cathedrals - it was a medieval parish church which was briefly designated an Episcopalian cathedral in the 17th century. ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/12 "2017-05-15T16:08:21Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > OK, this is getting interesting/confusing. Lutherans don’t have bishops, right? Even Methodists have bishops; they are not animals. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/13 "2017-05-15T16:12:30Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > It still needs to be a church that’s got bishops, such as the Episcopal or Orthodox ones. We’ve all seen lots of pictures of Moscow’s Cathedral of Saint Basil, for example (a lot of people think of it as “the Kremlin”; it is one of the buildings in the Kremlin, and apparently the most photogenic one). Except that “St. Basil’s” isn’t the seat of a bishop and is called a cathedral only on the basis of sloppy translation from Russian. > **[Saint Basil's Cathedral | Naming](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Basil%27s_Cathedral#Naming)** > > The building, originally known as "Trinity Church", was consecrated on 12 July 1561, and was subsequently elevated to the status of a sobor (similar to an ecclesiastical basilica in the Catholic Church, but usually and incorrectly translated as "cathedral"). "Trinity", according to tradition, refers to the easternmost sanctuary of the Holy Trinity, while the central sanctuary of the church is dedicated to the Intercession of Mary. Together with the westernmost sanctuary of the Entry in ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/14 "2017-05-15T17:04:32Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > OK, this is getting interesting/confusing. Lutherans don’t have bishops, right? Some do, but there is a significant theological difference about bishops between Lutherans and Methodists, on the one hand, compared to Catholic, Orthodox and Anglicans on the other. For the Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican churches, the Bishops are a third order of clergy. They are ordained to that position and it is a life-time status, whether or not they are appointed to a particular diocese. Their ordination is part of the Apostolic Succession, believed to be traceable back to St Peter and the other Apostles. (This is a point of dispute between the Anglicans and Catholics: Anglicans assert that they are inheritors of the Apostolic Succession, but the Catholic position is that the Anglican claim was broken because the Anglican ordination ceremonies around the turn of the 17th century did not sufficiently carry through the special nature of ordination as a sacrament. ) Luther and later Wesley rejected the idea of bishops being a third order. My understanding, certainly subject to correction, is that those Lutheran and Methodist churches which have bishops view them as important administrative positions within the church, but not dependent upon the Apostolic Succession. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/15 "2017-05-15T17:46:07Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Even Methodists have bishops; they are not animals. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/16 "2017-05-15T18:44:41Z")
> [@APB](#): > > > [@Nava](#): > > > > It still needs to be a church that’s got bishops, such as the Episcopal or Orthodox ones. We’ve all seen lots of pictures of Moscow’s Cathedral of Saint Basil, for example (a lot of people think of it as “the Kremlin”; it is one of the buildings in the Kremlin, and apparently the most photogenic one). > > Except that “St. Basil’s” isn’t the seat of a bishop and is called a cathedral only on the basis of sloppy translation from Russian. Not only is it not a cathedral, it’s also not located in the Kremlin. It’s located in Red Square, which is adjacent to the Kremlin. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/17 "2017-05-15T19:38:20Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > Even Methodists have bishops; they are not animals. Right: Animals move in natural paths, not strict diagonals, and are largely unsuited to running a church polity. Cardinals, on the other hand, are quite political, and can use fire, quite impressive for an avian. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/18 "2017-05-15T19:55:08Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > For the Catholic, Orthodox and Anglican churches, the Bishops are a third order of clergy. I’m not sure what you mean by “a third order of clergy”, but in the RCC being named a Bishop is not an additional taking or orders or a new Sacrament, as being ordained a Priest is. It’s a matter of administration and organization (those who aren’t given a diocese are usually given a task or a specific flock that’s not linked to a place; the military orders would sometimes get their own bishops, for example, and there are military bishops\*), not a different sacrament or a different order. Bishops are consecrated but not ordained (well, they’re ordained as priests; they’re not ordained as bishops). The Bishop of Rome is also consecrated Bishop of Rome and Pontifex; not ordained Bishop or Pontifex. - Spain’s current military archbishop is called Juan del Río Martín. Chile’s military bishop is Santiago Silva Retamales. Etc. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/19 "2017-05-15T20:12:06Z")
In the Roman Catholic Church, the Sacrament of Holy Orders can be received up to three times: Once to become a deacon, then again to become a priest (these first two are often combined in a single ceremony), and then a third time to become a bishop. Thus, bishops are a third order of clergy (with deacons and priests being the first two). This status is indeed lifelong. Separate from this, a bishop may also be named as bishop of some particular diocese, such as the Pope being the Bishop of Rome. But even if a bishop retires from the administration of a diocese (as, for instance, Benedict XVI retired from being Bishop of Rome), he’s still a bishop, because he’s been ordained as such. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2017, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644/20 "2017-05-15T21:07:19Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Right: Animals move in natural paths, not strict diagonals, and are largely unsuited to running a church polity. > > Cardinals, on the other hand, are quite political, and can use fire, quite impressive for an avian. Ah. Their cousins, however, rooks, are equally political and more democratic: rather than a bishopric, they have a parliament. Their individual homes, however, are shared with an elephant. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technically-speaking-is-a-cathedral-a-church/786644.md?page=2)