# Technology and the Water Speed Record - Design a New Challenger **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 14, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513 "2023-06-14T17:33:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Celtic\_Kitsune](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celtic_kitsune/32/12086_2.png) [@Celtic\_Kitsune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celtic_Kitsune)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513/1 "2023-06-14T17:33:40Z")
Considered putting this one in Factual Questions but there probably isn’t any definite answer. The subject of the water-speed record came up today and I was surprised to learn that the record of 317 mph has stood since 1978, and the subsequent two attempts ended in fatalities. There have been no further tries since 1989. Surely the advance of 45 years of technology has produced some advantages for the next person who wants to give it a try, perhaps make it a little safer at least? Could computers be used to read the water ahead and adjust winglets or flaps to keep the boat on an even keel, or something like that? I’m not a technology-person so perhaps that’s crazy talk, however if you were designing a new craft for the attempt how would you go about it? Thanks in advance! > **[Water speed record](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_speed_record)** > > The world unlimited Water Speed Record is the officially recognised fastest speed achieved by a water-borne vehicle, irrespective of propulsion method. The current unlimited record is 511.11 km/h (317.59 mph), achieved by Australian Ken Warby in the Spirit of Australia in 1978. > The record is one of the sporting world's most hazardous competitions. Of the thirteen people who have attempted the record since June 1930, seven have died. There have been two official attempts to beat Ken Warby's 197... ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513/2 "2023-06-14T17:52:02Z")
Not a nautical engineer, but my observation is that the key to going hella fast in water is to do it in as little water as possible. All the record holders and contenders since the 1940s are hydroplanes, which have a very small water contact surface. So low drag but also limited stability and control. Which is a problem on a surface which is both very slippery and very uneven because of waves. Go really fast and one momentary loss of stability and you are done for. I’m not sure what kind of engineering can overcome the fundamental fact that speed is always a tradeoff dor stability. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513/3 "2023-06-14T17:55:04Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Not a nautical engineer, but my observation is that the key to going hella fast in water is to do it in as little water as possible. All the record holders and contenders since the 1940s are hydroplanes, which have a very small water contact surface. Which is also a problem, because I imagine having a water speed record would require you to be still touching the water. At what point does a fast boat just become a slow rocket? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2023, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513/4 "2023-06-14T19:01:10Z")
The reason it’s so dangerous is that light watercraft are inherently unstable. I think to break that record, you need to go really big and just plow through the water with a heavy, bullet proof hull and massive engines to offset the additional weight. It might even make more sense to make the attempt _under_ water. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2023, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513/5 "2023-06-16T02:51:22Z")
When those things are going at record speed, there’s very little in the water except the propeller and a tiny bit of hull. I think there may also be a fundamental limit based on cavitation of the propeller. At some point you just can’t put that much power into a small volume of water. And at high speed other issues with propeller propulsion creep up. Add in that you’re in an unstable vehicle right next to a surface that’s hard as concrete if you slam into it at 511 mph, and that record may stand for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2023, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513/6 "2023-06-16T03:59:07Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > …my observation is that the key to going hella fast in water is to do it in as little water as possible. Also, water _moves_. Lee Taylor attempted a speed record with a chop of several inches. Stupid as Fuck. I think he could have done it if he waited for a calmer day. Speculation is the buffeting from the chop slammed his head into the roof of the craft, disabling him, then total loss of control. Got all kind of Wonky and flipped out of control. I remember that day vividly. Watched them recover bits from his boat from the shore. It was not a typical “calm” day that morning. Cold and breezy. ---
**Author:** ![Celtic\_Kitsune](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/celtic_kitsune/32/12086_2.png) [@Celtic\_Kitsune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celtic_Kitsune)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2023, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513/7 "2023-06-16T10:09:05Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > > [@gnoitall](#): > > > > …my observation is that the key to going hella fast in water is to do it in as little water as possible. > > Also, water _moves_. Lee Taylor attempted a speed record with a chop of several inches. Stupid as Fuck. I think he could have done it if he waited for a calmer day. Speculation is the buffeting from the chop slammed his head into the roof of the craft, disabling him, then total loss of control. Got all kind of Wonky and flipped out of control. I remember that day vividly. Watched them recover bits from his boat from the shore. It was not a typical “calm” day that morning. Cold and breezy. To be fair according to the wikipedia entry he knew the conditions weren’t right but he decided to do a test run because he didn’t want to disappoint people, it wasn’t a speed record attempt, and it cost him his life. Not wise perhaps but noble in a way. > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > When those things are going at record speed, there’s very little in the water except the propeller and a tiny bit of hull. I think there may also be a fundamental limit based on cavitation of the propeller. Couldn’t they use jet or rocket engines instead to overcome that problem, with the propeller? > [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > The reason it’s so dangerous is that light watercraft are inherently unstable. I think to break that record, you need to go really big and just plow through the water with a heavy, bullet proof hull and massive engines to offset the additional weight. It might even make more sense to make the attempt _under_ water. I like that idea though it would probably require more resources than an individual or small team could bring to bare. I’ve also heard of supercavitating torpedos so hhhhmmm… ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2023, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513/8 "2023-06-16T12:54:00Z")
I would use a rocket powered hydrofoil. It should have very little contact with the water, and the cockpit sitting well above the water in a detachable pod designed to fly up in the air instead of directly into the water when a leaf floating on the water causes it to break apart. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2023, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513/9 "2023-06-16T20:19:27Z")
Would a ground-effect aeroplane with just a tiny hydrofoil dropped in the water count as a boat? Or even a fully fledged moden supersonic jet towing something (a long rope, maybe) in the water? Part of the craft it in the water… ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2023, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513/10 "2023-06-16T20:30:33Z")
I don’t know but I don’t think the jet dragging a rope in the water would count. I thought about the addition of an air foil but it would mainly just add drag and weight, although maybe it’s what keeps you alive when things go wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2023, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/technology-and-the-water-speed-record-design-a-new-challenger/985513/11 "2023-06-16T20:49:23Z")
> [@Celtic\_Kitsune](#): > > Couldn’t they use jet or rocket engines instead to overcome that problem, with the propeller? Yeah, I was thinking about the propeller record. The unlimiteds now use large jet engines for propulsion. Apparently the only regulation is that they have to be a boat of some kind, which would rule out ground effects vehicles that don’t touch the water.