# Tecumseh's Curse **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 14, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794 "2012-02-14T05:15:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mark\_Linton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/35a633/32.png) [@Mark\_Linton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Linton)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/1 "2012-02-14T05:15:07Z")
Dear Cecil, Not only is “tecumseh’s curse” pretty creepy, so is the flip side: Of all the presidents NOT elected in a year ending with 0, only one died in office. That was Zachary Taylor, who died in (of couse!) 1850! ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/2 "2012-02-14T05:52:48Z")
People _not_ dying is creepy now? ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/3 "2012-02-14T06:02:09Z")
The column is [Was there an Indian curse that presidents elected in “0” years would die in office?](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/671/was-there-an-indian-curse-that-presidents-elected-in-0-years-would-die-in-office) And since the “curse” did not work for the presidents elected in 1820 (Monroe), 1980 (Reagan) and 2000 (Bush Jr or Gore), it was either selective or non-existent. (Tecumseh died in 1813, so James Monroe should have been included in the curse.) ---
**Author:** ![qpackard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f14d63/32.png) [@qpackard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpackard)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/4 "2012-02-14T17:17:01Z")
Astonishingly as this may seem, all of the presidents, up to Jimmy Carter are now dead! Tecumseh’s curse works overtime. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/5 "2012-02-14T17:19:29Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > People _not_ dying is creepy now? I think the point is that seven presidents elected in years ending in 0 died in office, while 1 president elected in non 0 years died in office. That is attempting to establish that there is some pattern at work. If there were equal numbers of presidents or equal percentages or something of 0 year deaths vs non 0 year deaths, that would be counter to the claim of the curse. Instead, we see a pattern that fits the supposed curse. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2012, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/6 "2012-02-14T19:43:44Z")
And – Reagan only just barely survived. Had he not been treated as quickly and as expertly as he was, he would surely have died. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/7 "2012-02-15T03:32:25Z")
So curses are treatable now? Medical science marches on… ---
**Author:** ![AppallingGael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9bd4f/32.png) [@AppallingGael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AppallingGael)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/8 "2012-02-15T07:51:45Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > And since the “curse” did not work for the presidents elected in 1820 (Monroe), 1980 (Reagan) and 2000 (Bush Jr or Gore), it was either selective or non-existent. (Tecumseh died in 1813, so James Monroe should have been included in the curse.) The curse probably did not kick in until Harrison became president. However, it failed in 1860 and 1940 (it’s ridiculous to count presidents who died only in a later term. By that standard, FDR could have been elected till he was 100 years old and still fallen victim to the “curse”). In fact, there much stronger evidence that Tecumseh bestowed a blessing, as every president since WH Harrison, right up to this day, who was elected in a —0 year remained president either for the rest of his life, or till the end of his constitutional eligibility. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/9 "2012-02-15T19:01:37Z")
Just for fun, let’s look at it the other way around. Assume that Presidents will die in office and ask what the chances are that they will be elected in a year ending in 0. The final digits for election years cycle through: 8-2-6-0-4.\* You would think that meant that the chance of a dead President being elected in a zero year was 1 in 5, but most Presidents serve two terms. The cycle for election pairs is 8-2, 2-6, 6-0, 0-4, or 4-8, giving Mr. Dead President a 2 in 5 chance of hitting a zero. That’s pretty close to 50/50 for a chance that’s been channelled into a something-in 5 configuration. Grover Cleveland throws the math off by serving two non-consecutive terms (4-2). (I remember him because of [The One and Only Genuine Original Family Band](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_One_and_Only_Genuine_Original_Family_Band).) And **AppallingGael** is right about Roosevelt. He’d been elected to four terms (2-6-0-4) and had his health been better, would have taken a shot at a fifth. Depending on how you set up your assumptions, you could say that he had no chance of either not collecting his 0 as he passed it by or of not dying in office. Really, his chance of not collecting any even digit was completely a question of his health. Given that it takes decades to develop the support needed to be elected President, and given that the office is a lightning rod for blame, I’m not to surprised that we’ve had Presidents die in office. These are powerful older men who aren’t likely to relinquish that power because of a few warning twinges. Maybe if we ran the scenario a few thousand times, each even digit would get its fair cumulative share. For a single run, the numbers could have been more strongly segregated and still been within the expected probability. - The cycle can be started with any even digit. I checked George Washington’s first election. Although it was in 1789 (the only odd-numbered election year), that was only because the Constitution was still being ratified in 1788. His second election was in 1792. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2012, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/10 "2012-02-15T19:49:24Z")
> [@Yllaria](#): > > Just for fun, let’s look at it the other way around. Assume that Presidents will die in office and ask what the chances are that they will be elected in a year ending in 0. The final digits for election years cycle through: 8-2-6-0-4.\* You would think that meant that the chance of a dead President being elected in a zero year was 1 in 5, but most Presidents serve two terms. > > The cycle for election pairs is 8-2, 2-6, 6-0, 0-4, or 4-8, giving Mr. Dead President a 2 in 5 chance of hitting a zero. That’s pretty close to 50/50 for a chance that’s been channelled into a something-in 5 configuration. I’m not getting this. There are exactly five chances per century for a president to be elected in an year ending in 0. There are 25 elections per century. That’s 1 in 5 no matter what. There have been 11 elections of that type. 7 of the 11 died in office. There have been 43 other elections. 6 of the 43 have died in office. That’s a significant difference. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/11 "2012-02-16T21:54:09Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > And – Reagan only just barely survived. Had he not been treated as quickly and as expertly as he was, he would surely have died. Seems to me that there was a book on the Third Secret of Fatima. It was not supposed to be about the end of the world. It was supposed to be a prophecy about the attempted assassination of a pope: Pope John Paul II, I believe, who was shot and very seriously wounded. An earlier pope was attacked with a knife, but the attacker screwed up and the knife pretty much went flat against the abdomen. The Third Secret allegedly said that a pope would be assassinated. It did not say nearly assassinated. The rationalization given by the author was that a prophecy could be about something slated to happen, but there may be an upset toward the final outcome. Also, the nearness to death made it practically a death: The doctors apparently doubted that their efforts would be successful. I’m not inclined to accept such reasoning to defend the supposed “fulfillment” by near-fulfillment, BTW. I don’t know whether you are making a claim in favor of RR being included in the “curse” or not. I’m just saying that if anyone is, it seems very similar to me. _ **- AKA True Blue Jack** _ ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2012, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/12 "2012-02-16T23:51:40Z")
The [Third Secret](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html) in English translation is available in its entirety at a Vatican web page, which I think is creditable. > [@](#): > > The third part of the secret revealed at the Cova da Iria-Fatima, on 13 July 1917. > > I write in obedience to you, my God, who command me to do so through his Excellency the Bishop of Leiria and through your Most Holy Mother and mine. > > After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!‘. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it’ a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father’. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God. This refers to the attempted assassination in exactly the same way that a quatrain of Nostradamus refers to Hitler. ---
**Author:** ![Find\_Friends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c37758/32.png) [@Find\_Friends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Find_Friends)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2012, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tecumsehs-curse/612794/13 "2012-02-19T16:13:28Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > The [Third Secret](http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html) in English translation is available in its entirety at a Vatican web page, which I think is creditable. > This refers to the attempted assassination in exactly the same way that a quatrain of Nostradamus refers to Hitler. An apt comparison. - “Jack”