# Ted Cruz Presidential campaign discussion thread **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [March 23, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774 "2015-03-23T14:47:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/421 "2016-01-12T22:18:02Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Whether the Canadian oath requires that or not, it means nothing if the USA doesn’t recognize Canadian requirements as binding. > > Case in point: my mother swore to renounce all other allegiances when she became an American citizen. The USA’s opinion is that she is an American citizen, and only an American citizen. Canada’s opinion is that she can renounce all she likes, and acquire all the extra citizenships she likes, but she nevertheless remains a Canadian citizen. I know it’s not enforceable against citizens, but it sure seems like enough to enforce against a Presidential candidate who has to be “natural born”. And really, I’m more concerned with what she thinks, not what Canada thinks. People saying the words and not meaning them is a gift to the Donald Trumps of the nation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/422 "2016-01-12T22:23:56Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > However, McCain was born to US parents and was born a US citizen. Maybe. He’s certainly a citizen _now_. It’s not clear that he was a citizen for the first six to twelve months of his life. > [@](#): > > What is the purpose of the “natural born citizen” clause? To insure that there are no dual loyalties. The purpose of the clause was probably to ensure that King George (or more likely, one of his subordinates) couldn’t buy his way into office. That was a real risk in the 18th century, since the population eligible to vote was relatively tiny. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/423 "2016-01-12T22:25:45Z")
That was my point, though: it’s not up to the individual, and what they swear or affirm may not be within their power. Cruz had to take the extraordinary step of formally renouncing his Canadian citizenship and publishing that fact in the media, which would suggest that despite his birthplace he doesn’t have the divided loyalty that worried the founders. There are millions of US-born American citizens who hold dual citizenship, though, so “naturalborn” isn’t a good criterion for assuring the president is without divided loyalty. It would be much more straightforward to just insist that the president may not hold dual citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2016, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/424 "2016-01-12T23:08:46Z")
For me that’s always been non-negotiable for anyone seeking elected office. ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Girl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7bcc69/32.png) [@Mighty\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Girl)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/425 "2016-01-13T11:00:38Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It would be much more straightforward to just insist that the president may not hold dual citizenship. After the Fujimori telenovela in Peru (he escaped to Japan to avoid being prosecuted for charges of corruption and Japan does not extradite citizens) a few countries took notice. The Dominican constitution bans people with another nationality from running for president. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Lowry](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Sam\_Lowry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Lowry)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2016, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/426 "2016-01-13T22:22:21Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > As much as I enjoy the schadenfreude over Cruz’s citizenship dilemma, it should be noted that Lawrence Tribe is one of the most ultra-liberal people around. Well, that explains where he’s coming from, where Tribe prefers “living constitutionalist” judges, while Cruz prefers “originalists”, but as far as I can tell that doesn’t make him right or wrong on the irony of it. I won’t call Cruz a hypocrite about it, since Cruz hasn’t yet argued about this stuff in court. I do think Cruz is eligible, and I think if it went to courts that he should and would be ruled eligible. [But this is apparently affecting his poll numbers.](http://www.businessinsider.com/donald-trump-ted-cruz-canadian-birther-iowa-poll-2016-1) > [@](#): > > The new survey found that only 46% of likely Iowa Republican caucus-goers realize that Cruz was born outside the US. (More Iowa Republicans believe Cruz was born in the US than President Barack Obama.) > > But just 32% of GOP caucus-goers said that someone born outside the US should be allowed to serve as president, while 47% think such a person should not be able to serve as president. > > Among the latter group of caucus-goers, Trump crushes Cruz by a 40% to 14% margin. > > “Our poll findings show the Birther Issue could actually cost Cruz Iowa,” Tom Jensen, Public Policy Polling’s director, told Business Insider in an email. If this becomes a bigger issue, and Cruz has to keep saying something along the lines of “I’m an American citizen, even though I was born in Canada, there’s no question I’m eligible to be president”, a lot of people will just hear “I was born in Canada” and not be totally cool with that. Considering how that has gotten some traction so far, and it’s not like Trump will give up easily, and Cruz doesn’t have a whole lot of friends to defend him, I could definitely see this gaining traction. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/427 "2016-01-14T16:00:52Z")
This may turn in to a thing:[Cruz didn’t disclose a Goldman Sachs loan](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/us/politics/ted-cruz-wall-street-loan-senate-bid-2012.html?_r=0&referer=) that he took out for his Senate run. Now he wasn’t keeping it totally secret, he disclosed it in another venue just not to election officials. But it’s still a notable violation and I could see Trump making hay with it. “I guess Mr Tea Party is really in the pocket of Wall St banks!” ---
**Author:** ![GrandWino](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grandwino/32/67_2.png) [@GrandWino](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrandWino)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/428 "2016-01-14T16:03:34Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > This may turn in to a thing:[Cruz didn’t disclose a Goldman Sachs loan](http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/01/14/us/politics/ted-cruz-wall-street-loan-senate-bid-2012.html?_r=0&referer=) that he took out for his Senate run. Now he wasn’t keeping it totally secret, he disclosed it in another venue just not to election officials. But it’s still a notable violation and I could see Trump making hay with it. “I guess Mr Tea Party is really in the pocket of Wall St banks!” Yeah I think this has the potential to be a real problem for Cruz. Combined with the eligibility issue, I think it will cause enough of a slide for Trump to end up on top in Iowa. And if Trump wins Iowa, he’s going to run the tables on this thing. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/429 "2016-01-14T16:09:14Z")
> [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > … > > > [@Business Insider Article](#): > > > > … > > More Iowa Republicans believe Cruz was born in the US than President Barack Obama. > > … > > … And that says just about all we need to know to understand how politics in the USA got to where they are. ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/430 "2016-01-14T16:38:16Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > As much as I enjoy the schadenfreude over Cruz’s citizenship dilemma, it should be noted that Lawrence Tribe is one of the most ultra-liberal people around. So? He & I are both Hell-Bound Liberals who believe that Cruz meets the Constitutional requirements to be President. Tribe was pointing out that _Cruz_ interprets the Constitution more narrowly. Except when it suits his purposes… ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/431 "2016-01-14T16:43:49Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > For me that’s always been non-negotiable for anyone seeking elected office. Why? Do we really think some ne’er-do-well is going to be stopped from his dastardly plan by a requirement that he give up his other citizenship? ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/432 "2016-01-14T20:55:23Z")
Bought and paid for by Goldman Sachs - _loan_ my arse: are you fucking kidding me. His wife is a banker with GS, on a Sabbatical to help him? WTF. Send him back to fucking Canada. [http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/ted-cruzs-goldman-sachs-problem](http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/ted-cruzs-goldman-sachs-problem)? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/433 "2016-01-14T20:57:35Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Send him back to fucking Canada. He formally renounced his citizenship. We won’t take him. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/434 "2016-01-14T21:16:13Z")
We have standards up here! They may be low, but they do exist! ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/435 "2016-01-14T21:33:01Z")
But you still owe us for Bryan Adams and Celine Dion. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/436 "2016-01-14T22:35:41Z")
Hmmm . . . [Cruz might be in trouble.](http://www.salon.com/2016/01/14/the_end_of_teds_excellent_adventure_how_a_new_york_times_bombshell_and_donald_trump_could_finish_him/) ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/437 "2016-01-14T23:15:58Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It would be much more straightforward to just insist that the president may not hold dual citizenship. Except that may well be something that is not within the individual’s control (unless you are willing to accept the candidate’s renunciation, even if the other country continues to insist the candidate is indeed a citizen thereof.) President James Buchanan, e.g., held dual citizenship because his father was born a British subject, and British nationality law at the time did not allow renunciation. In the modern world, there are still a few countries (Iran is a notorious example) that in practice follow the “once a citizen, always a citizen” model. ---
**Author:** ![SlackerInc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slackerinc/32/275_2.png) [@SlackerInc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SlackerInc)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2016, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/438 "2016-01-14T23:49:12Z")
So Duck Dynasty Phil has endorsed Ted Cruz. [This video is so very painfully awkward](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0i-9D92bzu8&feature=youtu.be) to watch. It comes across almost like Teddy boy is Phil’s hostage or something! At the very least, in that camo footage near the end, I feel sure Cruz is really wondering what he has gotten himself into. Totally hapless. > [@Sam\_Lowry](#): > > If this becomes a bigger issue, and Cruz has to keep saying something along the lines of “I’m an American citizen, even though I was born in Canada, there’s no question I’m eligible to be president”, a lot of people will just hear “I was born in Canada” and not be totally cool with that. Considering how that has gotten some traction so far, and it’s not like Trump will give up easily, and Cruz doesn’t have a whole lot of friends to defend him, I could definitely see this gaining traction. Absolutely. The smartest thing Trump could do is come at Cruz with something like the following: “Ted, I love you, but here’s what I’m trying to understand. When I hired investigators to look into Obama’s citizenship, they could never find the smoking gun proving he was born outside the U.S. We tried! But so, here’s the thing: you fully admit you were born in another country. Your mother was American, your father a foreigner, just like Obama. So why was the issue of where Obama was born important, but it doesn’t matter for you? This doesn’t make sense to me–maybe you can explain it.” Now, Trump may very well know–as Cruz certainly does–that the distinction hinges on a weird little loophole in the law that was operative when Obama was born, but was closed long ago. It is a little complicated, but the upshot is that at that time, an American woman 19 or older could confer automatic citizenship on her child born abroad, but an 18 year old could not. And although she was married to Obama Sr., Ann Dunham was 18 at the time of Barack’s birth. But I guarantee your average GOP birther doesn’t know these fine points (so it’s to Trump’s advantage to pretend he doesn’t either). To them, it’s all about whether you are born in the U.S. So if Cruz has to natter on about how, well, his mother was older than Ann Dunham, yadda yadda, that’s going to sound like a lot of legalese, technicalities (which it is). And these birthers don’t want to even \*think \*about the fact that they have been suspecting Obama based on a weird glitch in the law rather than something as straightforward as “you gotta be born in 'Murica”. So Cruz’s explanation will just irritate them, to where they just want to clear him away and not have to deal with the cognitive dissonance any more. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/439 "2016-01-15T13:00:11Z")
…and in the debate he tried to zing the Donald with a comment on dual nationality technicalities and Comboverman just swatted him. When will they learn… ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774/440 "2016-01-15T13:21:00Z")
Nice to see that a Republican can score points by denigrating the values of an entire American city. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruz-presidential-campaign-discussion-thread/715774.md?page=23)