# Ted Cruz's Story About Jesse Helms & John Wayne **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 13, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751 "2013-09-13T05:46:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/21 "2013-09-18T16:31:43Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Not sure how this relates to your OP, but Jesse Helms was not an unapologetic racist and segregationist, at least at those terms are commonly used and understood. I suppose that it would make more sense to say that he was an opportunist who simply used code words and innuendo to play the race card in order to win elections throughout 58 years of public life. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/22 "2013-09-18T16:40:14Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You need a better source for that claim (which is itself fairly vague). > > According to the [Jesse Helms Center](http://www.jessehelmscenter.org/senator-jesse-helms/key-issues/) It’s not surprising that the Jesse Helms Center would try to obfuscate Helms’ role in Willis Smith’s campaign, as Helms himself did in his autobiography. It’s not plausible, as Helms claims (after being silent about it for decades), that the “Wake Up WHITE PEOPLE” flyer was created by people unaffiliated with Willis Smith’s campaign. Far more plausible is the story [as investigated by Ernest Ferguson](http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/whitewash/Content?oid=1195584), that Helms was intimately involved with the Smith campaign and that flyer in particular. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/23 "2013-09-18T16:50:22Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I suppose that it would make more sense to say that he was an opportunist who simply used code words and innuendo to play the race card in order to win elections throughout 58 years of public life. I agree that this would make more sense. But IMO it makes even more sense than that to view Helms as a guy who - for better or for worse - said what he believed in. An opportunist would have moved somewhat to the left and won by far bigger margins. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > It’s not surprising that the Jesse Helms Center would try to obfuscate Helms’ role in Willis Smith’s campaign, as Helms himself did in his autobiography. Agreed. You have to look at the veracity of their quoted sources. > [@](#): > > It’s not plausible, as Helms claims (after being silent about it for decades), that the “Wake Up WHITE PEOPLE” flyer was created by people unaffiliated with Willis Smith’s campaign. Why not? This is fairly common in political campaigns. > [@](#): > > Far more plausible is the story [as investigated by Ernest Ferguson](http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/whitewash/Content?oid=1195584), that Helms was intimately involved with the Smith campaign and that flyer in particular. I agree that this is a better source. I would consider the issue unsettled at this point, subject again to the veracity of Hoover Adams versus the others quoted. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/24 "2013-09-18T17:02:33Z")
Also, this happened: > [@](#): > > More recently, when a caller to CNN’s Larry King Live show praised guest Jesse Helms for “everything you’ve done to help keep down the niggers,” Helms’ response was to salute the camera and say, “Well, thank you, I think.” (Wilmington Star-News, 9/16/95) You can never know for sure what went on in someone’s mind. But based on a predominance of evidence, including his own words (such as “The Negro cannot count forever on the kind of restraint…”), reports on his campaigns and his campaign ads, I think it’s reasonable to conclude that Jesse Helms was motivated at least in part by bad feelings about black people. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/25 "2013-09-18T17:07:05Z")
I agree that that’s a reasonable conclusion. I don’t think it’s the only possible reasonable conclusion, but it’s reasonable and I wouldn’t argue it. But “motivated at least in part by bad feelings about black people” is a far cry from “unapologetic racist and segregationist”, which is what I disputed. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/26 "2013-09-18T17:07:37Z")
Interviewed in 2005 and asked about race relations in the 20s and 30s, Helms said: “In so many ways I think the relationship between the races was far better than it is now. I could give you a thousand examples of why I’m convinced of that. I don’t know of anybody who ever persecuted anybody of another race.” That’s just laughable. Perhaps Helms was just extremely, massively deluded. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/27 "2013-09-18T17:09:26Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree that that’s a reasonable conclusion. I don’t think it’s the only possible reasonable conclusion, but it’s reasonable and I wouldn’t argue it. > > But “motivated at least in part by bad feelings about black people” is a far cry from “unapologetic racist and segregationist”, which is what I disputed. He was definitely unapologetic, and I’d say “motivated at least in part by bad feelings about black people” falls square into the boundaries of “racist”. Considering the plausible reports about his involvement in Willis Smith’s campaign, I also think it’s reasonable to conclude that Helms opposed racial integration. So I think it’s fair and reasonable to categorize him as an “unapologetic racist and segregationist”. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/28 "2013-09-18T17:15:41Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I agree that this would make more sense. But IMO it makes even more sense than that to view Helms as a guy who - for better or for worse - said what he believed in. An opportunist would have moved somewhat to the left and won by far bigger margins. Actually, a review of his election/campaign history shows him pulling out the code words and innuendo most frequently when it appeared that he might lose, thus energizing a white racist vote that brought him victory. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/29 "2013-09-18T17:19:22Z")
Back to the OP: Did John Wayne say this > [@](#): > > Oh yeah, you’re that guy saying all those crazy things. We need 100 more like you. to Jesse Helms? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/30 "2013-09-18T17:36:31Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > There’s no real evidence that he ever said that, but even if he did it would not make him an unapologetic racist and segregationist. :dubious: Of course it would. ---
**Author:** ![SeaCanary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SeaCanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaCanary)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/31 "2013-09-18T18:54:11Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I suppose that it would make more sense to say that he was an opportunist who simply used code words and innuendo to play the race card in order to win elections throughout 58 years of public life. +1 ---
**Author:** ![SeaCanary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SeaCanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaCanary)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/32 "2013-09-18T19:07:38Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > So when he called UNC the “University of Negroes and Communists” he meant it as a compliment? > [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > There’s no real evidence that he ever said that, … Fighting ignorance, here are three sources from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms#cite_note-Luebke_THP-259) for that quote: [ol] [li]Luebke, Paul (2007). Tar Heel Politics 2000. University of North Carolina Press. ISBN 978-0-8078-4756-5. Retrieved July 13, 2008.[/li][li]Heineman, Kenneth J. (1998). God is a Conservative: Religion, Politics, and Morality in Contemporary America. NYU Press. ISBN 978-0-8147-3554-1. Retrieved July 13, 2008.[/li][li]Longley, Kyle; Jeremy D. Mayer, Michael Schaller, John W. Sloan (2007). Deconstructing Reagan: Conservative Mythology and America’s Fortieth President. M.E. Sharpe. ISBN 978-0-7656-1591-6. Retrieved July 13, 2008.[/ol][/li] (You’re welcome.) ---
**Author:** ![SeaCanary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SeaCanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaCanary)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/33 "2013-09-18T19:16:37Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![SeaCanary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SeaCanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaCanary)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/34 "2013-09-18T19:22:38Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > President Bush mentioned that John Wayne had said that the Senate needed 100 like Jesse Helms. Bush was speaking at a Helms’ fundraiser during the 1990 campaign. > His obituary mentioned that Helms kept a personalized photo from Wayne hanging in his Senate Office. > I couldn’t find anything about the circumstances about Wayne saying it to Helms, but Wayne was a very outspoken supporter of Republicans throughout the 1970’s until his death. > [@Czarcasm](#): > > Back to the OP: Did John Wayne say this > > > [@](#): > > > > Oh yeah, you’re that guy saying all those crazy things. We need 100 more like you. > > to Jesse Helms? Thank you Czarcasm, but I think the “well” is irredeemably “poisened”. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/35 "2013-09-18T19:23:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: Of course it would. I can sorta see the “racist” part, as it’s implying that being a Negro or a Communist, or working to advance a leftist agenda friendly to Negroes and/or Communists, is a bad thing…but how do you get “segregationist” from that remark? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/36 "2013-09-18T19:26:16Z")
> [@SeaCanary](#): > > Thank you Czarcasm, but I think the “well” is irredeemably “poisened”. I know it is, but I’d like to find out the answer to that question, and I’ve been told by a moderator that I can only ask it in this particular thread. ---
**Author:** ![SeaCanary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SeaCanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaCanary)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/37 "2013-09-18T19:31:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I know it is, but I’d like to find out the answer to that question, and I’ve been told by a moderator that I can only ask it in this particular thread. I saw the moderator’s post. We can but hope someone will answer my original question here. ---
**Author:** ![Punoqllads](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@Punoqllads](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Punoqllads)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/38 "2013-09-18T19:39:22Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I can sorta see the “racist” part, as it’s implying that being a Negro or a Communist, or working to advance a leftist agenda friendly to Negroes and/or Communists, is a bad thing…but how do you get “segregationist” from that remark? If it walks like a segregationist and quacks like a segregationist… ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/39 "2013-09-18T19:47:39Z")
> [@Punoqllads](#): > > If it walks like a segregationist and quacks like a segregationist… Ok, but where’s the walk and the, er, quack, in conflating the Civil Rights movement with Communism? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751/40 "2013-09-18T19:48:33Z")
> [@SeaCanary](#): > > Fighting ignorance, here are three sources from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Helms#cite_note-Luebke_THP-259) for that quote: > [ol] > [li]Luebke, Paul (2007). Tar Heel Politics 2000. University of North Carolina Press. ISBN 978-0-8078-4756-5. Retrieved July 13, 2008.[/li][li]Heineman, Kenneth J. (1998). God is a Conservative: Religion, Politics, and Morality in Contemporary America. NYU Press. ISBN 978-0-8147-3554-1. Retrieved July 13, 2008.[/li][li]Longley, Kyle; Jeremy D. Mayer, Michael Schaller, John W. Sloan (2007). Deconstructing Reagan: Conservative Mythology and America’s Fortieth President. M.E. Sharpe. ISBN 978-0-7656-1591-6. Retrieved July 13, 2008.[/ol][/li] > (You’re welcome.) I’m no wikipedia basher, but none of those sources is linkable, so there isn’t any easy way to check what they actually say. And the “talk” page of that article isn’t much help. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-cruzs-story-about-jesse-helms-john-wayne/668751.md?page=3)