# Ted Haggard is a Big Fat Hypocrite **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 28, 2009, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442 "2009-01-28T21:39:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/21 "2009-01-29T01:16:21Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > I didn’t watch! I walked into the room and my sister was watching, honest! This is the TV equivalent of “I was holding it for a friend!” Yes, Ted Haggard is a flaming hypocrite. I hope his megachurch disowns him and he is forced to make an honest living. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/22 "2009-01-29T01:32:28Z")
So. No understanding or forgiveness for a terribly closeted gay man who was raised in a culture that taught him to despise himself, and is now actually seeming to be coming to some sort of terms with the fact that he is attracted to men? I admit I don’t know all the details of his story, but I read a recent interview where he was rather up front about how he’s learning that it’s not wrong to be gay or bi. He also talked about how much pure vitriol and hate he received in reported equal amounts, from both the social conservatives and the gay community. His church tossed him aside, by his report. I always figured RO should be leavened with some appropriate amount of compassion. But then I too have been in disgrace with fortune and men’s eyes in my own past. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/23 "2009-01-29T01:36:52Z")
It would be nice if he admitted he was a gay man and just dealt with it. Is he trying to come to terms with being gay? Or is he in denial and instead, propagating that old homophobic chestnut about how being gay is a degraded choice made only by the morally bankrupt and weak? If he weren’t caught out, do you think he’d still be condemning gays from his bully pulpit? I’m guessing that, as long as there was money in it, and fame, yes. I have compassion for him. I think he should be disowned by his megachurch and forced to make an honest living. Maybe that would help him be able to admit who he is and lead a more honest life overall. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/24 "2009-01-29T01:39:33Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > So. No understanding or forgiveness for a terribly closeted gay man who was raised in a culture that taught him to despise himself, and is now actually seeming to be coming to some sort of terms with the fact that he is attracted to men? > > I admit I don’t know all the details of his story, but I read a recent interview where he was rather up front about how he’s learning that it’s not wrong to be gay or bi. \*\*He also talked about how much pure vitriol and hate \*\*he received in reported equal amounts, from both the social conservatives and the gay community. His church tossed him aside, by his report. > > I always figured RO should be leavened with some appropriate amount of compassion. > > But then I too have been in disgrace with fortune and men’s eyes in my own past. At one time, he was leading the hate and vitriol. Maybe we should have compassion but he needs to feel the pain he helped and encouraged to be inflicted. All in the name of Christ’s love. ---
**Author:** ![Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@Long\_Time\_First\_Time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Long_Time_First_Time)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/25 "2009-01-29T01:40:06Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > More seirously, though, Ted Haggard isn’t gay according to the conservative evangelical definition of “gay”, because for evangelicals like that, being gay isn’t a matter of wanting to have sex with men, or even having sex with men. Being gay is about being ok with the fact that you want to have sex with men, and accepting that as normal. That’s why they always say you choose to be gay. As long as you’re unhappy you have these “urges”, they’re ok with that. I think this is why they just don’t seem to understand at all people point out that straight men never had a time when they decided to be turned out by women, and that a choice to lust after women was never made - they just do. It doesn’t occur to gays who happen to be evangelicals that most people don’t have the inner struggles to deny their urges the way they do. ---
**Author:** ![Kolga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e56c9b/32.png) [@Kolga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolga)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/26 "2009-01-29T01:46:23Z")
I do feel sorry for his internal struggles, his self-loathing and his constant struggle to hide and deny perfect normal and valid feelings. I do NOT feel sorry for his current humiliation. Ted Haggard, for years, led the charge against the “vile and loathesome homosexual,” those perverts who are responsible for the downfall of civilization, American’s turning away from God, and the runs in his wife’s stockings. He wouldn’t be feeling such self-loathing and self-hatred and internal struggles if people like him didn’t exist in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/27 "2009-01-29T01:47:42Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > I admit I don’t know all the details of his story, but I read a recent interview where he was rather up front about how he’s learning that it’s not wrong to be gay or bi. He also talked about how much pure vitriol and hate he received in reported equal amounts, from both the social conservatives and the gay community. His church tossed him aside, by his report. Yeah, it does suck to be gay, and grow up in an environment that’s so staunchly anti-gay. Thing is, that happens to a lot of people. And most of them don’t grow up to be prominent homophobes actively working to sabotage the rights of other gays. So my sympathy is somewhat tempered by the fact that this closet case was still enough of a douche to use the gay community as a whole as his punching bag in his long and futile effort to demonstrate how not gay he was. It’s a bit like someone who was abused as a child growing up to be a child abuser. Yeah, it’s awful that you suffered. That doesn’t excuse the suffering you’ve inflicted on others. Maybe it explains it, but it doesn’t excuse it. ---
**Author:** ![Vlad\_Igor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Vlad\_Igor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vlad_Igor)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/28 "2009-01-29T01:52:00Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > So. No understanding or forgiveness for a terribly closeted gay man who was raised in a culture that taught him to despise himself, and is now actually seeming to be coming to some sort of terms with the fact that he is attracted to men? And people were aghast! AGHAST! When Tammy Faye started reaching out to AIDS patients and was on that reality show with HIM (i.e. Ron Jeremy). If Ted could take that last step and start ministering to the gay community, then I’d be able to see a true ministry. Until then, he’s just a salesman in a pulpit doing his best to close the deal, and you don’t matter. Vlad/Igor ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/29 "2009-01-29T02:07:13Z")
> [@outside\_artist](#): > > My fucking dog . . . I’ll wager your dog’s sex life is more interesting than Ted Haggard’s. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/30 "2009-01-29T03:20:37Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > This is the TV equivalent of “I was holding it for a friend!” Or, “My… friend paid a young man for crack and buttsecks. Is he going to hell?” ---
**Author:** ![Jaglavak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85f322/32.png) [@Jaglavak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jaglavak)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/31 "2009-01-29T03:23:07Z")
> [@outside\_artist](#): > > Well, I had a relationship with a man before but I’m NOT GAY! [Oldie But Goodie](http://www.theonion.com/content/node/33540) ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/32 "2009-01-29T03:24:22Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > So. No understanding or forgiveness for a terribly closeted gay man who was raised in a culture that taught him to despise himself, and is now actually seeming to be coming to some sort of terms with the fact that he is attracted to men? Post #7 ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/33 "2009-01-29T03:58:15Z")
So, no possibility that he may be bisexual, and just needs to settle on a team? ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/34 "2009-01-29T04:07:14Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > So, no possibility that he may be bisexual, and just needs to settle on a team? Not in Tedsterland, no. You’re either some kind of evil queer, or you’re a right thinking heterosexual. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/35 "2009-01-29T04:08:40Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > So, no possibility that he may be bisexual, and just needs to settle on a team? Remember, when you were a kid and choosing up teams? Remember that one kid that no one wanted and you’d argue who had to take him this time? He’s that kid. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/36 "2009-01-29T04:16:31Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > So, no possibility that he may be bisexual, and just needs to settle on a team? Do you think he’d still be able to preach in his megachurch if he came out as bisexual? What do you think his wife would do? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/37 "2009-01-29T04:18:14Z")
> [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](#): > > So. No understanding or forgiveness for a terribly closeted gay man who was raised in a culture that taught him to despise himself, and is now actually seeming to be coming to some sort of terms with the fact that he is attracted to men? > > I admit I don’t know all the details of his story, but I read a recent interview where he was rather up front about how he’s learning that it’s not wrong to be gay or bi. He also talked about how much pure vitriol and hate he received in reported equal amounts, from both the social conservatives and the gay community. His church tossed him aside, by his report. > > I always figured RO should be leavened with some appropriate amount of compassion. > > But then I too have been in disgrace with fortune and men’s eyes in my own past. I totally agree. And when Larry King questioned him today on whether being gay was a sin he answered that it was for him because of his marriage and what he knows. In other words, to me,he’s saying he’s sinning if he practices gay sex and he’s not judging others. He also point blank admitted to the latest charge of an incident several years ago. > [@Rubystreak](#): > > It would be nice if he admitted he was a gay man and just dealt with it. He said he was a heterosexual with gay interest. I’m a happy heterosexual with a few alcohol related gay experiences from my distant past so I can accept his present understanding of his sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/38 "2009-01-29T04:27:41Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > I totally agree. And when Larry King questioned him today on whether being gay was a sin he answered that it was for him because of his marriage and what he knows. What is it exactly that he “knows”? > [@](#): > > In other words, to me,he’s saying he’s sinning if he practices gay sex and he’s not judging others. He also point blank admitted to the latest charge of an incident several years ago. It’s amazing that you have to be caught having drug-fueled sex with a male prostitute in order to get to a place where you’re not judging others. > [@](#): > > He said he was a heterosexual with gay interest. > > I’m a happy heterosexual with a few alcohol related gay experiences from my distant past so I can accept his present understanding of his sexuality. Don’t you think there’s a meaningful difference between someone who has some passing gay contact in college or something, and someone who actively preaches against homosexuality, and who is married, soliciting a prostitute repeatedly (as a bottom) over the course of 3 years? I think that goes beyond “gay interest.” Also, I thought he claimed he was [completely heterosexual?](http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/07/us/07haggard.html?scp=1&sq=ted%20haggard%20heterosexual&st=cse) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/39 "2009-01-29T04:46:54Z")
> [@Rubystreak](#): > > What is it exactly that he “knows”? Well, he’s read the bible and believes it. There’s a belief among some Christians that there’s a huge difference in the sin of a sinful act between knowing it is sinful and not knowing it is sinful. If you don’t believe gay sex is sinful then you won’t be held accountable. > [@](#): > > It’s amazing that you have to be caught having drug-fueled sex with a male prostitute in order to get to a place where you’re not judging others. The recovery from an intervention or consequence can change your whole outlook towards others. Been there myself. > [@](#): > > Don’t you think there’s a meaningful difference between someone who has some passing gay contact in college or something, and someone who actively preaches against homosexuality, and who is married, soliciting a prostitute repeatedly (as a bottom) over the course of 3 years? Repeatedly? Yes I know, but how often. And did he have to take drugs to go along with it ? Hell, I can’t be sure. But I’ve always had difficulty with the notion that you are one way or the other and completely ignoring bisexuality. ---
**Author:** ![Rubystreak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Rubystreak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rubystreak)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442/40 "2009-01-29T04:54:26Z")
> [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](#): > > Repeatedly? Yes I know, but how often. And did he have to take drugs to go along with it ? Hell, I can’t be sure. But I’ve always had difficulty with the notion that you are one way or the other and completely ignoring bisexuality. According to Mike Jones, monthly over the course of 3 years. What does having to take drugs have to do with anything? I don’t think he “had” to take drugs at all, it was completely voluntary. He liked to get high and have anal sex with a man… does that make him less gay in your mind? He also apparently had a sexual relationship with a [young male church member,](http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/ted_haggard/index.html?inline=nyt-per) who was paid to keep silent. These are the homosexual relationships we know about. Overall, Mr. Haggard seems quite interested in men. QUITE interested. This is more notable because he claimed to be hetero AND to believe strongly that homosexuality is wrong. If he were bisexual, do you think he would have a compulsion to have sex with men that was so strong that he’d do it anyway, over and over, with multiple partners? Without knowing what his sex life is with his wife, I can’t say definitively if he’s bi or gay. And gay or bi, he’s still queer. Completely heterosexual? I don’t think so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-haggard-is-a-big-fat-hypocrite/483442.md?page=3)