# Ted Kennedy is dead **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 26, 2009, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746 "2009-08-26T05:39:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/81 "2009-08-26T17:49:10Z")
And they’ve done what? ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/82 "2009-08-26T17:50:00Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > And they’ve done what? They can’t do anything as pro-abortion justices form a majority in the Court which will continue now with Sotomeyer. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/83 "2009-08-26T17:51:04Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > President Bush appointed pro-life justices to the Supreme Court. WHAT?!? There was a litmus test??? ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/84 "2009-08-26T17:54:44Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Personally, I’m pretty liberal, and I think that Chappaquidick was nothing more than a regrettable accident, and I still wasn’t all that big a fan of Senator Kennedy. It’s a combination of the dynasty factor that **Una** mentioned, and his opposition to alternate energy. I guess it might be a while ago, but Chappaquidick is something which as a conservative I’ve not really cared about. His NIMBY opposition to the wind farm I’m certain you’re referring to is a very valid criticism (although it’s rare IRL to find a Democrat who has the honesty to admit that (Eleanor Clift, I’ll calling you out again!), IIRC a large number on this board do and did). Of course the Republicans as a group have a far worse renewable energy record. I also hoped that Kennedy would have stood out as a sole voice in favor of Kyoto, but I reckon the political pressure to join the unanimous multi-party dissent was simply too great. Again, I say he was a fine Senator who I disagreed with on several topics. It’s a bad day in America for conservatives, liberals, and the wild-eyed radical middle, to lose a good public servant such as Kennedy. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/85 "2009-08-26T17:59:02Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > WHAT?!? There was a litmus test??? I don’t think it matter. Presidents Clinton and Obama appoint pro-abortion justices while Bush Jr. appoints pro-life justices. I expect the same thing to continue unless a centrist is elected President. And I mean a real centrist. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/86 "2009-08-26T18:01:08Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > They can’t do anything as pro-abortion justices form a majority in the Court which will continue now with Sotomeyer. ☹ Oh, what a load of nonsense. There’s a conservative majority on the Court as it stands (and it’s one of the most conservative ever), and they’ll continue to restrict abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/87 "2009-08-26T18:01:30Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > So the guy spent almost 50 years in the Senate and less than two pages, with almost zero discussion of anything he did in his political life, we’re onto Laura Bush and abortion? Really? This is the state we find ourselves in America today. Self-righteous, ego-smurfing, political point scoring is more important than getting on with the business at hand. The Flag flies at half staff today while too many whine about themselves. ---
**Author:** ![CyclopticXander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@CyclopticXander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyclopticXander)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/88 "2009-08-26T18:05:46Z")
I agree that not trying to save the woman would be a horrible and tainting moral failing, the only problem is that we have no idea to what extent he tried. It’s not even one word against another, his is the only word we have and we can only speculate as to the truth of it. You also don’t know what was in his heart or the remorse he felt. Once again, you can have a hunch, but it really doesn’t mean jack. As for using power and influence to cover his ass, I think almost anyone would. That doesn’t make it right, in fact it is quite wrong, but after-the-fact ass saving maneuvering isn’t an unforgivable sin. Maybe everyone here thinks they would hold their head up high and bravely sacrifice their life and career, but the fact is most of you would freak the hell out and try to preserve yourself, especially if you had the powerful tools of self preservation he did. Ultimately he probably should have been slammed with negligent homicide just like the rest of us would have been. Instead he got a pass and went on to become one of the greatest senators in our history. Maybe it is a miscarriage of justice, but ultimately it was a horrible yet accidental event and throwing him away wouldn’t have saved any lives, it only would have deprived us of his decades of service. So really, legally the detractors may have a point. But morally, you’re just taking uninformed stabs and generally talking out of your ass. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/89 "2009-08-26T18:15:19Z")
> [@Captain\_Carrot](#): > > Oh, what a load of nonsense. There’s a conservative majority on the Court as it stands (and it’s one of the most conservative ever), and they’ll continue to restrict abortion. There are 4 conservatives, 4 liberals, and 1 pro-abortion moderate in the Supreme Court. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/90 "2009-08-26T18:18:50Z")
> [@Duckster](#): > > This is the state we find ourselves in America today. Self-righteous, ego-smurfing, political point scoring is more important than getting on with the business at hand. The Flag flies at half staff today while too many whine about themselves. I’m not one for bemoaning the state of America, so that isn’t what I was going for. Much of his career happened before I was born or paying attention to politics. I’ve read several major obituaries and they all discussed a lot of major legislation. I’d like to know more about his involvement there, how it played out, and whether or not he deserves all the credit he is being given, and I’d like some commentary about it from the posters here. I almost started a thread about the same thing after seeing Chris Matthews on Stephen Colbert’s show last week. Maybe I should have, although it probably would have turned out much the same way. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/91 "2009-08-26T18:22:37Z")
I couldn’t give a toss about the guy’s politics, I’d feel exactly the same if he were an icon of the right. (Of course, then the liberals here would be falling over themselves to raise the ghost of Kopechne). It’s his character that concerns me. Put simply the man had none. No integrity, no backbone, no ethics. I had enormous respect for his brothers. Compared to them Teddy was a cipher. America is a far better place for his passing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/92 "2009-08-26T18:23:15Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > I’m another who’s a bit conflicted by this. Teddy was indeed a politician of huge stature who deserves to be recognized for a very significant life. > > But he also deserves to have his memory inextricably tied to those Chappaquidick events (which would surely - and deservedly - have killed the career of almost any other politician in any other state). > > To focus solely on either aspect seems to involve some measure of dishonesty. There should be no conflict in this because Ted Kennedy did not in any way account for his actions. His behavior during and after the event was so vile and coldly calculated as to forever erase his future achievements. If he had made an honest attempt at saving Mary Jo Kopechne’s life he would go down in history as one of the greatest American politicians of his time. I’ll say it again, you cannot have researched the events at Chappaquiddick and walk away with any respect for this man. I could forgive him for flying into my town and deliberately stealing jobs from the local military base. He was elected to represent his district. I applaud his work on legislation such as the “No Child Left Behind” bill where he reached across the aisle to hammer out an agreement. That part of his life would have been a high achievement were it not for his actions that one night. If it were not for his family legacy his career would have died that night along with Mary Jo. Instead, he was given a lifetime seat that he didn’t deserve. Had he acted honorably in his efforts to save her and taken his lumps for the accident it I would be singing his praises. It’s not about politics, it’s about the man. ---
**Author:** ![alexandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e68b1a/32.png) [@alexandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alexandra)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/93 "2009-08-26T18:49:41Z")
Both the [Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/26/obituary-ted-kennedy) and the [Telegraph](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/politics-obituaries/6091456/Ted-Kennedy-obituary.html) have interesting obits, neither of which are uncritical. Note the first publication is traditionally of the Left - one doesn’t have to be partisan to recognise this man’s faults. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/94 "2009-08-26T18:55:50Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > That part of his life would have been a high achievement were it not for his actions that one night. Statements like this are what I don’t get. I don’t understand how his later achievements are lessened by his earlier behaviour. They simply don’t have any bearing on each other. You can think on balance he’s a bad man because of Kopechne, but how does that lessen his legislative accomplishments? The value of a piece of legislation is completely independent of the private morals of the person who is instrumental in passing it. Thankfully. For the record I have no dog in this fight over Ted’s legacy. Don’t much care, being a foreigner and all. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/95 "2009-08-26T19:15:29Z")
I realize that this is wildly off topic in this Chappaquiddick discussion thread, but did you know that Ted Kennedy was the first member of Congress to have a web site? [http://blog.sunlightfoundation.com/2008/05/22/ted-kennedy-internet-pioneer/](http://blog.sunlightfoundation.com/2008/05/22/ted-kennedy-internet-pioneer/) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/96 "2009-08-26T19:31:16Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Statements like this are what I don’t get. I don’t understand how his later achievements are lessened by his earlier behaviour. They simply don’t have any bearing on each other. It’s an American thing. Nobody ever bought a Mötley Crüe record again after Vince Neil killed that one guy. Well, except for three more platinum records. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/97 "2009-08-26T19:33:56Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > There are 4 conservatives, 4 liberals, and 1 pro-abortion moderate in the Supreme Court. There is no such thing as “pro-abortion”. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/98 "2009-08-26T19:38:26Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Statements like this are what I don’t get. I don’t understand how his later achievements are lessened by his earlier behaviour. Because his earlier behavior was extremely vile, and he did not make amends for it. One does not cancel the other out. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/99 "2009-08-26T19:54:46Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > If only Democrats felt as much compassion for the two million or so aborted babies every year. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746/100 "2009-08-26T20:03:13Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > Cite? The actual number is [pretty close](http://www.religioustolerance.org/abo_fact.htm). Hovers around 1,000,000 per year. ETA: Well, if we’re worried about semantics, no babies are aborted- a baby has by definition been born. ~1,000,000 _fetuses_ are aborted per annum. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-kennedy-is-dead/507746.md?page=6)