# Ted Turner obviously never heard of Godwin's law **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719 "2005-01-26T06:17:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2005, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/21 "2005-01-26T14:59:55Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > The whole point of Fox News is to arouse violent emotion and undermine rational thought. I’m sorry, Dio, but you ceased to be rational about politics a long time ago. Your violent hatred of conservatives has deranged you. Good bye. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2005, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/22 "2005-01-26T15:02:36Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I’m sorry, Dio, but you ceased to be rational about politics a long time ago. Your violent hatred of conservatives has deranged you. Good bye. Are you going somewhere? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2005, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/23 "2005-01-26T17:13:14Z")
> [@Shade](#): > > Though you pretty much have to avoid it now, however apt, because it triggers a discussion like this, which DETRACTS from your point. We need to learn some other regimes to compare things to, which cloud the issue with feelings a lot less. Luckily, the current US administration is providing us with a perfect alternative. It’s not as bad as Nazi Germany, but it can stand as the idealized version of a nominally-democratic and freedom-loving regime that actually goes out of its way to undermine democracy and freedom in pursuit of a narrow, theocratic, and violent set of principles. ---
**Author:** ![RevCo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9fc348/32.png) [@RevCo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RevCo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/24 "2005-01-26T17:16:02Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Personally, I think CNN’s ratings are down because they don’t dumb it down as much as Fox does. So CNN is taking a stand on principle and journalistic integrity to maintain a higher regard for the news they carry, and are letting themselves lose ratings rather than evolve and get better ratings? LOL! Always the kidder! Yeah, the OJ Trial 24x7 orgasm CNN had was designed with the sophisticate in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2005, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/25 "2005-01-26T17:25:38Z")
I didn’t say they don’t dum it down at _all_, just not as much as Fox. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2005, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/26 "2005-01-26T17:35:22Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I didn’t say they don’t dum it down at _all_, just not as much as Fox. What a compliment! Maybe CNN could take it as their new catchphrase: “We don’t dumb it down as much as Fox.” Of course, that’s the news equivalent of saying “We don’t suck quite as much as the Kansas City Royals.” ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2005, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/27 "2005-01-26T17:47:50Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > Ted is basically right. Fox News is pretty much a government propaganda outlet and they do do goosestep like nazis. > > It’s also true that Bush (and Fox) want to squelch any sort of independent news reporting. Can you clear up something for me? Should we ever take anything you say seriously any more? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2005, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/28 "2005-01-26T17:56:23Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > What a compliment! Maybe CNN could take it as their new catchphrase: > > “We don’t dumb it down as much as Fox.” > > Of course, that’s the news equivalent of saying “We don’t suck quite as much as the Kansas City Royals.” I agree and that’s the problem. CNN is still dumbing it down but they’re doing it more timidly and without feeling. They shy away from the true red meat bigotry and sloganeering that Fox revels in. CNN is too dumb to draw a loyal audience from serious people (especially since there’s an internet now) and it’s too bland to draw an audience of partisan loyalists _ala_ Fox. CNN should either make a real effort to step up the gravitas and establish itself as THE serious go-to NEWS network, or turn the other way go all out as the anti-Bush network (which would be entertaining and welcome if not informative). The lukewarm tone they have now doesn’t attract anybody. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2005, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/29 "2005-01-26T18:01:31Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > I agree and that’s the problem. CNN is still dumbing it down but they’re doing it more timidly and without feeling. They shy away from the true red meat bigotry and sloganeering that Fox revels in. CNN is too dumb to draw a loyal audience from serious people (especially since there’s an internet now) and it’s too bland to draw an audience of partisan loyalists _ala_ Fox. CNN should either make a real effort to step up the gravitas and establish itself as THE serious go-to NEWS network, or turn the other way go all out as the anti-Bush network (which would be entertaining and welcome if not informative). The lukewarm tone they have now doesn’t attract anybody. I agree with you. Firing Tucker Carlson was, at least, a baby step in the right direction. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2005, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/30 "2005-01-26T18:58:05Z")
> [@This Year's Model](#): > > The problem there is that there is no other regime which carries all the connotations of Hitler/Nazis. I mean you could pick and choose piecemeal - the British for concentration camps, the Turks for genocide, the Mongols for willy-nilly conquering - but a valid comparison to the Nazi regime cannot really be made to anything else but the Nazis. Well, remember- during WWII there were other related “Nazi” regimes that weren’t German. They rounded up the jews, assisted the SS and such like. However, I guess one can argue they were “nazi” even though they weren’t Nazi. But Tojo’s Japan during WWII was every bit as bad- and in some ways worse (the Germans treated _their_ POW’s decently) as Germany under the Nazis. You have racism, camps, torture, conquest, brutality, the whole thing. Even organized rape. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2005, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/31 "2005-01-26T19:11:50Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But Tojo’s Japan during WWII was every bit as bad- and in some ways worse (the Germans treated _their_ POW’s decently) as Germany under the Nazis. Try Googling under “Malmedy” (and take a comparative look at what happened to Soviet prisoners captured by the Nazis). Inane Godwinisms don’t even outrage their targets much anymore, they’ve been so overdone. Repetitions just serve to numb people to what Nazism really was. If a Fox news broadcast is the equivalent of a Nazi atrocity, then Hitler was probably just a regular guy who was a bit right-wing and occasionally shouted down his debate opponents. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/32 "2005-01-27T06:59:35Z")
It doesn’t hurt to be aware of Nazism in its early stages. He horrors didn’t happen overnight, but in stages that were progressively worse. I’m not saying that I agree with Ted Turner. I think, however, that Fox News makes a mockery of the practice of journalistic ethics; further, they support an Administration that has been secretive and deceptive. It is reasonable to question at what point they or any other news source may be supporting the spread of propoganda from a corrupt government. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/33 "2005-01-27T16:28:07Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Can we get a link? [here](http://www.globalenvision.org/library/11/330/) > [@](#): > > Ted Turner, US media mogul, lost an estimated $6 billion of his $8 billion fortune due to the decrease in AOL Time Warner stock. Even though his personal wealth has dramatically decreased, Turner recently reaffirmed that he will pay the remaining $500 million outstanding on the historic $1 billion donation… > he decided to give himself 10 years, instead of 5, to compete the final payments. ---
**Author:** ![PinkMarabou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ec9cab/32.png) [@PinkMarabou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PinkMarabou)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/34 "2005-01-27T16:57:07Z")
I have to agree with **Zoe** on this. If fascism were to succeed, they wouldn’t do it all overnight, they would start slowly. And I truly think that’s what’s going here. Doesn’t it tell you something when the “news” stories on FNC are vastly different from the ones on all the other news channels? Jon Stewart admits his show is fake news and it has more factual information in it’s 30 minutes than FNC runs in 24 hours. It baffles me why anyone would defend them. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_chao_goes_mu/32/3191_2.png) [@The\_Chao\_Goes\_Mu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Chao_Goes_Mu)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/35 "2005-01-27T17:39:41Z")
I find it odd that anyone would fully trust any of the news out there, it all pretty much seems like propaganda anymore. If you want to point out that Fox is the “conservative’s” and Bush’s mouthpiece, which is does appear to be so, then play fair and point out that CNN appeared to be Clinton’s and the liberal’s mouthpiece. It’s still seems to be the liberal mouthpiece. Either way you cut it, there’s a little bullshit on both networks. **Diogenes** , you stated that; _It’s also true that Bush (and Fox) want to squelch any sort of independent news reporting._ It’s true eh? Would you please prove this alleged axiom? ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/36 "2005-01-28T00:42:21Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Judging from your posts, I’d say it’s working! Are you implying that Diogenese is rational and avoids violent emotion when Nazism isn’t under discussion? > [@The Chao Goes Mu](#): > > I find it odd that anyone would fully trust any of the news out there, it all pretty much seems like propaganda anymore. If you want to point out that Fox is the “conservative’s” and Bush’s mouthpiece, which is does appear to be so, then play fair and point out that CNN appeared to be Clinton’s and the liberal’s mouthpiece. It’s still seems to be the liberal mouthpiece. Either way you cut it, there’s a little bullshit on both networks. It would be fair if it were true. If CNN really were the liberal propaganda machine that the righties make it out to be, than it would be downright hypocritical to make one claim without making the other. But find any liberal demagoguery on CNN to compare to Bill O’Reilly - you ain’t gonna find it. You’re treading very close to what seems to be a certain favorite tack of the demagogues and pundits of the right (as opposed to the thoughtful, insightful commentators, which even I must admit _do_ exist.) Just deflect any criticism by saying, “The left does it! And they do it worse!” - then you don’t have to defend your own statements. Even if, of course, the left _doesn’t_ do it, as with the present example. Your point about not fully trusting any news source is very much valid, though. As much as we harp about media literacy, it doesn’t seem to be any more common in the public than it ever was. ---
**Author:** ![Snakey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@Snakey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snakey)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/37 "2005-01-28T01:03:58Z")
Amazing!!! Until now I thought CNN stood for Cable Nazi News!! Well Crickey, you learn something new everyday :rolleyes: . ---
**Author:** ![TJdude825](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@TJdude825](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TJdude825)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/38 "2005-01-28T01:42:26Z")
> [@brickbacon](#): > > I never understood Godwin’s Law. There a some times where a comparison to Nazi Germany/Hitler are apt. Of course people overuse it, but that doesn’t mean you can’t make the comparison without being a zealot. Here’s how I understand it: When someone compares something to Nazism, someone else cites Godwin’s Law. Then the person who made the comparison asks himself: “Was this a logical comparison or not?” If yes, they can defend their statement. If not, the citation of the law makes them take it back. At least, that’s my understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/39 "2005-01-28T01:45:45Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > It doesn’t hurt to be aware of Nazism in its early stages. He horrors didn’t happen overnight, but in stages that were progressively worse. If you go back and study the era, you will find that Nazism’s goals and hatreds were outlined very early on. Further studies will reveal questionable journalistic practices and government policies of past eras that can be invoked in more realistic comparisons, and which will be far less offensive that trivializing the true horrors of Nazism. ---
**Author:** ![Baldwin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baldwin/32/7264_2.png) [@Baldwin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baldwin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2005, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719/40 "2005-01-28T22:57:24Z")
Some people start throwing around Nazi comparisons with absolutely nothing to back them up. For instance, I heard Bill O’Reilly, on Fox, spouting the other day, “If Hitler were alive he’d be a card-carrying ACLU member! So would Stalin – and the ACLU would be proud to have him!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ted-turner-obviously-never-heard-of-godwins-law/286719.md?page=3)