# Tedster explains child molestation, sexual orientation, and scoutmasters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 21, 2001, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298 "2001-07-21T05:13:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/1 "2001-07-21T05:13:41Z")
Over in MPSIMS, in a Paula Poundstone thread, Tedster said this: > [@](#): > > As far as the “orientation” of child molesters, one could rightly argue that if a male prefers little boys, he’s not heterosexual, but a pervert of the worst kind. Good try, though. When asked to support his assertion, he replied: > [@](#): > > Well you asked… > Simple- The very fact one is attracted to little boys in a precludes one from being heterosexual. Case in point, the Boy Scout leader who is now facing 29 counts of molestation, (Reardon) > > I doubt the mainstream media will mention his affiliation with Scouting, though. Gee, I wonder why? and > [@](#): > > Let’s turn it around > Oh-- I forgot to mention/ask-- Can anyone explain to me why > it’s so vital to allow Gay Scoutmasters? Does this pass > the common sense test? Forgive me for not being “tolerant” (Another word who’s meaning has been hijacked, never mind) > > I can only infer that it’s quite allright for males to > accompany Girl Scouts on overnighters as well… Correct? I responded in the following manner: > [@](#): > > **Number Six** said > > First: The Boy Scouts are not in any way related to the Girl Scouts; they are entirely separate entities. > > Second: There are male Girl Scout Masters, and they do accompany Girl Scots on overnight campouts. (extended rant edited out) To which Tedster replied: > [@](#): > > **Tedster** said > > Nice Try… > Sophistry gets one nowhere… > > Of course the Girl Scouts are a “different entity” than the Boy Scouts. > > I didn’t suppose I’d have to spell it out, but some enjoy splitting hairs over grotesque details any rational person wouldn’t quibble over. My point still stands-- Nobody has any problem, then, with sending men who lust after Pre-Teen and Teen girls out overnight to sleep in the same tent? I trust and hope that’s not the case. I guess I’m just an “intolerant” and “bigoted” bastard. PC at its finest. > > They aren’t heterosexuals-- Again, Good Try. They are Pedophiles/Pedarests And they don’t belong anywhere near our children, “NAMBLA” notwithstanding. It’s the same sort of nonsensical logic by which we are told “Rape isn’t about Sex, it’s about Power” Oh? And I suppose Robbery isn’t about stealing my Television, either. Who _are_ these people, that come up with this? Ted, if you’re going to quote me, at least do it correctly. I said that they were “separate entities” not a “different entity”. You seem to equate homosexual men with men who molest young boys, going so far as to say of men who molest young boys “The very fact one is attracted to little boys in a precludes one from being heterosexual.” You’re not the first to make this assumption, but it stills jars me as being an incredible and unfounded leap of logic every time I see it. But what I find most interesting is that you equate “males (who) accompany Girl Scouts on overnighters” with “men who lust after Pre-Teen and Teen girls out overnight to sleep in the same tent”. Does this mean we should not allow men to be elementary school teachers, day-care workers, pediatricians, social workers, or involved in other activities that would put them in contact with young children? Are all men who enjoy the presense of children potential child molestors? Can you offer any evidence to support your positions? If I have summarized your position incorrectly, by all means, correct me. If you have any evidence to support your claims present it. ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/2 "2001-07-21T05:20:19Z")
all i have to say is the following: The rate of child molestation among PRIESTS (and other church-affiliated, “godly” people) is much higher than the rate of child molestation among the general population. So, if you have a problem with gays being in the boy scouts because you fear your kids will be molested, you better think twice before you send them to church next sunday. I can’t tell if it is stupidity/ignorance or hypocrisy, or a mixture of both. Also, i think heterosexual child molestation is just as bad as homosexual child molestation. They are both equally evil IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/3 "2001-07-21T05:41:44Z")
> [@](#): > > _They aren’t heterosexuals_– Again, Good Try. They are Pedophiles/Pedarests And they don’t belong anywhere near our children, “NAMBLA” notwithstanding. Wow. That means every textbook in Sociology, Psychology and Human Sexuality I’ve ever seen has been wrong. Every valid study I’ve every read was incorrect. Because according to them, pedophiles are predominately white, male, straight, married and in an middle income bracket. I would really like to see a cite for that statement, Tedster. ---
**Author:** ![JadedNaive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/59ef9b/32.png) [@JadedNaive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JadedNaive)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/4 "2001-07-21T05:45:17Z")
Well, the logic that says “If a man is sexually attracted to little boys, then he is not heterosexual” has a point, but only if it is extended thus: “If a man is sexually attracted to little girls, then he is not homosexual.” Either way, it doesn’t say much about the orientation of child molesters in general. And as for male Girl Scout leaders, my father was a co-leader in my troop, and yes he went with us camping and stayed in the same tent as me and a few other girls. It was never a big deal. Just because someone is attracted to a particular gender doesn’t mean he’ll take advantage of anyone of that gender who is weaker than he is. Not to mention that most people aren’t pedophiles. Of course, there are some people with whom no amount of rational argument will get anywhere. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/5 "2001-07-21T05:55:55Z")
> [@](#): > > The rate of child molestation among PRIESTS (and other church-affiliated, “godly” people) is much higher than the rate of child molestation among the general population. Evidence? The fact that priests (and other church-affiliated, “godly” people) are in a position of power and authority that makes their actions more reprehensible and the fact that the church has horribly bungled the situation when it has been discovered is an established fact. The idea that there any specific groups taht have a higher percentage of perpetrators than the general population seems more a matter of perception than reality. ---
**Author:** ![Sterra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8c91f0/32.png) [@Sterra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sterra)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/6 "2001-07-21T06:10:21Z")
I thought that child molesters often did not care what sex the kids were. That it was a thing entirely seperate from sexual orientation. If rape was really about sex then said rapists would probably try to just have sex with a prostitute. ---
**Author:** ![SFCanadian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@SFCanadian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SFCanadian)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/7 "2001-07-21T06:29:40Z")
As man who was molested many times as a child many times by many men, I can attest to the fact that almost all of the men were straight. I can’t speak for every Male Sexual Abuse Survivor, but that’s my experience… And as a Gay man, I find it offensive to equate molesters with Gay men… Just because someone is Gay doesn’t make them any more interested in sex with boys than a straight guy is interested in sex with girls… SFCanadian ---
**Author:** ![Hazel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e56c9b/32.png) [@Hazel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hazel)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/8 "2001-07-21T09:11:50Z")
I agree with Sterra and SFCanadian. Consider the whole population of post-puberty males. Most of them are normal, healthy guys. Some are sexually oriented toward the opposite sex; some toward their own sex. Either way, the people they find sexually attractive are their fellow post-puberty beings. IMO, it’s a smear of the Big Lie variety to try to convince people that gays are child molesters or that child molesters are gay. It’s something the rabid anti-gay contingent keeps claiming. It’s on a par with the ridiculous things bigots say about blacks and Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/9 "2001-07-21T09:25:15Z")
Last time I checked (and no, I don’t have a cite handy, but it’s 2:00 in the frellin’ morning, so I’ll get it later), over 90% of child molesters were heterosexual; additionally, whichever sex the perpetrator happened to molest was, wholly, irrelevent to the perpetrator’s sexual orientation; moreover, these were between adults who knew the child to more or less degrees. Somebody back me up on this? **Tedster** , your equating pedophilia to homosexuality is astoudingly ignorant and offensive. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e19adc/32.png) [@McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/10 "2001-07-21T11:52:41Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally osted by Tomndebb_ > Evidence? > > The fact that priests (and other church-affiliated, “godly” people) are in a position of power and authority that makes their actions more reprehensible and the fact that the church has horribly bungled the situation when it has been discovered is an established fact. The idea that there any specific groups taht have a higher percentage of perpetrators than the general population seems more a matter of perception than reality. [http://www.thelinkup.com/stats.html](http://www.thelinkup.com/stats.html) The above site gives some statistics on pedophile priests. I don’t think that it is a matter of perception really because it seems to me that some pedophiles are drawn to the Church from the outset. ---
**Author:** ![fierra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/58956e/32.png) [@fierra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fierra)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/11 "2001-07-21T14:04:55Z")
McMurphy - I’m not keen on your stats, but they don’t say at all where they get their estimate of 6.1 to 16.3% of all Catholic priests in America as being pedophiles from. It’s just drawn out of the air with no support. If there were a footnote saying that in 3000 cases against different individual priests they were found guilty, another 5000 cases against different individuals are still pending, the number would be fine. Until then, it proves nothing. Another reason for there being a higher perception of abuse by priests could be that the children abused have their families to turn to, if not then, then at least later (perhaps in their teens, when they are less in contact with the abuser). If they are abused by their family, it is a lot harder for them to find an adult they trust enough, even later when they are older, to talk to about it (or the non-abuser in the family hushes it up because they can’t or don’t want to believe it of their husband/son/brother/whatever), for the statistics to come out via therapists/victim support groups, whether or not the abuser is ever charged with it. ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/12 "2001-07-21T14:55:13Z")
**Esprix** is correct. From [_The Gale Encyclopedia of Psychology_](http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/g2699/0005/2699000576/p1/article.jhtml) > [@](#): > > A psychological profile of pedophilia escapes development because perpetrators appear to constitute a heterogenous group. However, some common characteristics prevail among both pedophiles and child molesters. The great majority of pedophiles are male, and they may be heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual in orientation. Preference for children as sex partners may not be exclusive, and more often than not, pedophiles have no gender preference in prepubescent children. However, by a margin greater than two to one, most victims are girls. Moreover, the pedophile is usually a relative, friend, or neighbor of the child’s family. I’m still looking for the study I remember from a Human Sexuality class that had hard numbers on the sexual orientation of the perps. I distinctly remember having this same arguement in a class and the professors showing the study on an overhead. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/13 "2001-07-21T15:08:21Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > **Last time I checked (and no, I don’t have a cite handy, but it’s 2:00 in the frellin’ morning, so I’ll get it later), over 90% of child molesters were heterosexual; additionally, whichever sex the perpetrator happened to molest was, wholly, irrelevent to the perpetrator’s sexual orientation** Wait a sec… I don’t understand the “whichever sex the perpetrator happened to molest was, wholly, irrelevent to the perpetrator’s sexual orientation.” sentence. If a man who’s married to a woman consistantly rapes young boys, he’s bisexual, right? He likes sex with males AND females. If a man who’s married to a man consistantly rapes young girls, he’s also bisexual. A man who’s married to a woman and consistantly rapes young girls is hetrosexual. I don’t understand how you can say “The gender(s) he choses to have sex with doesn’t count towards his sexual orientation”. Am I misunderstanding? Fenris ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/14 "2001-07-21T15:49:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Fenris \* > \*\* > Wait a sec… > > I don’t understand the “whichever sex the perpetrator happened to molest was, wholly, irrelevent to the perpetrator’s sexual orientation.” sentence. > > If a man who’s married to a woman consistantly rapes young boys, he’s bisexual, right? He likes sex with males AND females. > > If a man who’s married to a man consistantly rapes young girls, he’s also bisexual. > > A man who’s married to a woman and consistantly rapes young girls is hetrosexual. > > I don’t understand how you can say “The gender(s) he choses to have sex with doesn’t count towards his sexual orientation”. Am I misunderstanding? > \*\* As I understand it, there is a distinction between child molestors and pedophiles. A child molestor might not be sexually attracted to children at all. For some people who sexually abuse children it’s the abuse that is the significant part – they differ only in style, not substance, from other child abusers. A child molestor enjoys hurting children. A pedophile is someone who is sexually attracted to children, whether or not they ever act on these desires. Pedophiles rarely _want_ to harm children, although they often end up doing so. For a child molestor who feels no sexual desire for children, the sex of the child abused is largely irrelevant. As the old saying goes, it’s not about sex, it’s about power. You might compare it to a common prison rape scenario, in which an established gang boss rapes (or orders raped) a new inmate who hasn’t shown him proper respect. The gang boss isn’t acting for his own sexual fulfillment, in fact he is likely heterosexual and does not personally enjoy sex (consensual or non) with men at all. He is simply looking to hurt and humiliate the new guy, and sees rape as a better way to do this than a beating. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/15 "2001-07-21T15:58:07Z")
I guess **Fenris**'cause the perception is that a sexual attraction to children is a different category (much like heterosexual, homosexual, bi. ). Unfortunately, people tend to lump ‘child molesters’ into a single category, which isn’t particularly effective, either. There are some that are family preferential (ie molest their own children, and others that may see any child as a sexual object of desire. Some will only molest females, others only males, and yet others both sexes. I’ll start digging through my ‘sex offender’ cites to see what I can find to explain it better. ---
**Author:** ![urban1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/d07c76/32.png) [@urban1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/urban1)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/16 "2001-07-21T16:37:57Z")
Try a google search (‘child molestation studies’). There are too many cites there to quote here, however, [this](http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html) appears to be a good one. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2001, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/17 "2001-07-21T17:16:13Z")
from [here](http://www.ncjrs.org/txtfiles/163390.txt) > [@](#): > > The classification, diagnosis, and assessment of child molesters are complicated by a high degree of variability among individuals in terms of personal characteristics, life experiences, criminal histories, and reasons for offending. There is no single “profile” that accurately describes or accounts for all child molesters. > > o Sexual focus in child molesters has two independent dimensions: intensity of pedophilic interest and exclusivity of the sexual preference for children. The more an offender’s sexual preference is limited to children, the less socially competent (as measured by the strength and > range of social and sexual relationships with adults) he is likely to be. and [heres a link to many studies](http://www.recidivism.com/links/sex_offenders.php) with descriptive info including the one linked above by urban1 which includes [this study](http://www.ncianet.org/ncia/comnot.html) which demonstrates 87% of molesters **don’t** go on to molest again. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/18 "2001-07-22T06:05:20Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **Fenris** _ > > I don’t understand how you can say “The gender(s) he choses to have sex with doesn’t count towards his sexual orientation”. Am I misunderstanding? As explained, pedophiles are sexually attracted to _children_ - the gender of those children is irrelevant. How the perpetrator identifies with other _adults_ in a sexual way is more akin to their sexual orientation. In a sense, pedophiles are their a wholly distinct sexual orientation (although I know that’s not quite accurate). Read the info posted for a better explanation from those more educated than I. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Kaitlyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/73ab20/32.png) [@Kaitlyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kaitlyn)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2001, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/19 "2001-07-22T08:13:19Z")
Looks like Tedster has declined my invitation. Since I helpfully provided a link to this thread in the thread where he originally posted his ideas, I can only assume that I correctly interpreted his remarks, and that he doesn’t dispute any of the counter arguments. Tedster, feel free to correct me if I have erred. His remarks offended me a great deal, because whether he knew it or not they were directed at me. I happen to be one of those male Girl Scout leaders he referred to, and I have gone on overnight campouts with the girls in my troup. I have more than a few single mothers who specifically wanted their daughters in my troup because it would give the girls a chance to have a positive relationship with an adult male that they were missing. I am single and have no children, and originally planned to sign up to be a Boy Scout leader, but there was no need for them. There was, however, a big shortage of Girl Scout leaders in the area where I live, and there was a group of girls at the school where I teach who wanted to join, but had no adult willing to be their troup leader. Because of people like Tedster, I have to take precautions that female Boy Scout leaders (and there are bunches of them) don’t. I never hold a meeting without an adult female present. The first time I went on a campout (along with Mrs. Peel, a woman co-volunteer) I had planned on sleeping alone in my tent. I ended up with five little girls sharing my tent because they were scared by a noise they heard in the woods, and Mrs. Peel’s tent was already full. Still, there are people who assume that there must be something “funny” about a single man who wants to be a **Girl** Scout leader. I’ve heard the rumors more than once. But just like Tedster, the people who say these things are content to drop their little hate grenades and disappear. ---
**Author:** ![Freedom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Freedom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freedom)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2001, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298/20 "2001-07-23T04:05:12Z")
I understand and agree with Wring and Esprix’s points, up to a certain age. When we are talking about kids under 9, I can understand how age rather than gender is what “attracts” a pedophile. Somewhere between 9 and 13 the equation changes. Depending on the kid, they start to grow up and **start** to have hints of sexuality. So as far as I can tell, that kind of molestor depends on gender as part of their “selection” process. They might be picking out young children because they are more vulnerable, but they are picking younger versions of what they want, but can not have. I have often wondered about the truth of the claims I hear from both sides. Here are a couple of questions I have: [1] Do people who molest children in the 9-17 age bracket tend to molest just one gender, or do they flip back and forth? [2] Is there an established age where the gender becomes more of a factor than age? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tedster-explains-child-molestation-sexual-orientation-and-scoutmasters/73298.md?page=2)