# Teeming Millions Fight Back! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [February 27, 2000, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761 "2000-02-27T07:30:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![upstatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ce73a5/32.png) [@upstatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/upstatic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 7:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/1 "2000-02-27T07:30:00Z")
I consider myself a ‘teeming million’ because I’ve read more that 1/100th of Cecil’s responses in the Archives (and 'cause I know the definition of ‘teeming’). One thing, however, irked me. When would I find an ‘officially & recommened Cecilled’ link after one of his amazingly detailed (almost perpetual) answers to the millions (6 zeros) of swarming questions? I haven’t found one yet, that is why this message I am writing is more of a plea with a side order of petition than anything else; I’m asking you, fellow millions, to support me in the fight for links! It’s time Straight Dope expands its horizons! Ex. I read the response to “Where does the Vice President Live?” and was left with a question unanswered; what does his house look like? “BINGO!,” I said, “Maybe I should ask Cecil to be more liberal with links.” So, in conclusion, with no link…s…uh…strings attached, respond to this message if you support “Give me links, or give me death!” * * * R.J.D. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/2 "2000-02-27T08:46:00Z")
Not knowing which column you are speaking of, I can’t exactly comment on whether a description of the house would have been necessary or helpful. Did the question include a request for the description? Considering that it is first a newspaper column (1) a link/URL won’t do much good if the person is reading the column in the _Chicago Reader_ and doesn’t have access to a computer and (2) Cecil has to fit his column into the space alloted and thus may leave out information, however interesting it may be, that doesn’t directly address the question asked. _Is it just me who thinks this should go to the CCC forum with a link to the column in question?_ * * * Your Official Cat Goddess since 10/20/99. _Thunder’s just a noise, boys; lightning does the work._ --C. Brock ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/3 "2000-02-27T09:39:00Z")
Many of the more recent columns have links, but remember, Cecil has been answering questions for 27 years, so most of his columns appeared long before the Internet existed. We should be grateful for the large number of complete columns that are available for free at this site. (If it were up to me, I would have ended each on-line column after a couple of sentences with “Want to know the rest of the answer? Well, here’s a link for buying the book. Have your credit card ready.”) It’s too much to expect the Chicago Reader add and keep up-to-date links for hundreds of columns. Cecil isn’t going to do your homework for you–that’s what search engines are for. It took me about 2 minutes, using [www.google.com](http://www.google.com) to find a photograph of the Vice Presidential residence at: [http://www.quaylemuseum.org/backup/triv.html](http://www.quaylemuseum.org/backup/triv.html) ---
**Author:** ![upstatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ce73a5/32.png) [@upstatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/upstatic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/4 "2000-02-27T10:04:00Z")
To Kat (specifically)- I believe my post went directly over your head. (1) To clear things up, the response I BRIEFLY spoke of can be located by doing the following: type [www.straighdope.com](http://www.straighdope.com) in the address bar at the top of your screen, scroll down to “Search The Straight Dope Archive,” click on it, scroll down the screen (about 40% the way down stop), click on the question posted as “Where does the Vice President of the U.S. live?” It immediately follows “Do insects sleep?” It is directly before “What’s the busiest airport in the world?” (Both of which would have made perfect examples if I had chose not to us the VP one) (2) One rule of journalism is never to leave the reader with unanswered questions. Unless that rule does not apply to Cecil’s column, it does not matter whether or not the question required a description of the house. (3) Obviously, a newspaper does not expect just the person with the question to read Cecil’s column. So, even though the reader without the computer won’t have access, most readers will have access and would appreciate a little more effort on the part of the newspaper to ‘educate’ the ‘teeming millions.’ The computer, by the way, is a great tool. Why put limits on a limitless web by saying, e.i. because one person hasn’t a computer, we should take it out on the rest? (Oh, by the way, the reader without the computer could go down to the local library and read the online version there) (4) Online, my friend, Cecil does not have limits. And, of course, it doesn’t “directly address the question asked,” it does create a stir in the topic. Ex. If I ask, “Who was the first president of the U.S.?” A teacher responds, “George Washington.” But a great teacher responds, “George Washington was the first president. He was a general during the Revolutionary War, he was a Founding Father, and most important, he had wooden teeth.” (Remember, that is just one example among many) (5) If you would have payed attention, there was no need for your final question. “The column in question” was an example, and just an example. But, if you’d like to attach this post to the VP column, attach it to all of them without a link. (6) Thankyou Kat, hope you enjoyed. * * * R.J.D. ---
**Author:** ![Alphagene](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Alphagene](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alphagene)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/5 "2000-02-27T10:21:00Z")
OK first of all the link is [here](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mvphouse.html). I think Kat has been around this board long enough to know how to look for a link, uppie. > [@](#): > > One rule of journalism is never to leave the reader with unanswered questions. Unless that rule does not apply to Cecil’s column, it does not matter whether or not the question required a description of the house. Uh huh. Thank you William Randolph Hearst. By the way, it was Jill and not Cecil who fielded the question. You’ll pardon me if I don’t join your crusade. The question that was asked was answered. In great detail I might add. Just because your _somewhat related_ question wasn’t answered does not indicate a lack of journalistic integrity to me. Don’t be such a lazy twit. Look it up yourself. * * * **Gypsy** : Tom, I don’t get you. **Tom Servo** : Nobody does. I’m the wind, baby. ---
**Author:** ![upstatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ce73a5/32.png) [@upstatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/upstatic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/6 "2000-02-27T10:23:00Z")
To whitetho (specifically)- If it was up to you, we’d all have small microchips in our heads, programmed to buy your book. What book did you write again? It is not ‘too much to expect’ the Chicago Reader to keep up to date links to all the columns. You said it yourself, it only took you 2 minutes to search for an answer. 2 minutes/column times 200 columns = 400 minutes 400 minutes/60 minutes = roughly 6 h. 45 min. If 7 extra hours of work a year is too much for them, I’ll do it, FOR THEM, for nothing. (We know that you’d charge money and ask them to purchase your book. What was the title again?) Oh, one last thing, I never asked Cecil to do my homework. But, if he doesn’t do homework, why did Cecil do the homework of the guy who asked him where the Vice President lives. Explain that phenonemon, Mr. Paperback. ## Thankyou whitetho, I hope you enjoyed. R.J.D. ---
**Author:** ![upstatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ce73a5/32.png) [@upstatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/upstatic)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/7 "2000-02-27T10:51:00Z")
To Alphagene (specifically)- That was a very clever openning paragraph, Zulugene. But, if you would have read Kat’s response closely, she could not find a specific link. I, merely, directed her there. It is fair to assume that I’m an not William Randolph Hearst. Why, you ask? Because I’m responding to your crude post. I would like to point out, however, Cecil is not Mr. Hearst either. I mention that because you seem to consider Hearst the standard for journalistic writing. Is he Mr. Never-makes-mistakes? Does he edit an entire newspaper in one bound? Nah, I don’t think so. (I bet you’re, now, wondering the same thing) I don’t care whether or not your join my “crusade.” (It wasn’t designed for such genius’ as yourself, Betagene) Don’t be such an ignorant fool. Stop reading between the lines. OH, I almost forget, Alphafool, read the last sentence of my first post. You’ll be pleasantly surprised to learn that you’re an arrogant idiot. Thankyou Alpha-beta-zulu-gene, I hope you enjoyed. * * * R.J.D. ---
**Author:** ![Ayesha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c0e974/32.png) [@Ayesha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ayesha)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/8 "2000-02-27T12:14:00Z")
Hmmm, Is this G.Q. or the pit ? Upstatic, you asked a question and got answers. Which I believe is the purpose of this forum. Yet you seem to want to respond to the answers you get with sarcasam . I have a question for you. Why not try to be a little more polite to the people who take the time to respond to your questions ? That shouldn’t be too hard. * * * Ayesha * * * The opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference. ---
**Author:** ![NickyLarson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@NickyLarson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NickyLarson)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/9 "2000-02-27T15:20:00Z")
Boy, upstatic has a helluva way of introducing himself, doesn’t he? Consider this, uppity: Everything on this site is absolutly **FREE**! If you need more information, go to a search engine. The internet is a research tool. Use it properly, and it will serve you well. The SDMB is also a research tool. Use IT properly (and treat those you meet here nicely) and it will serve you well. And be glad no one took apart your style of writing. I’d ask for this to be moved to the pit, but you’re not worth further effort. * * * “I drive way too fast to worry about my cholesterol.” ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/10 "2000-02-27T15:58:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by upstatic: > **That was a very clever openning paragraph, Zulugene. But, if you would have read Kat’s response closely, she could not find a specific link. I, merely, directed her there.** OK, I read her response closely, and yours to her. In all your posts here complaining about a lack of links, you post one link, and that’s to the Straight Dope homepage. Either you’re a tad hypocritical or you’re easily satisfied. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and assume the latter. In which case, your original question should be satisfied with this [universal Straight Dope link](http://www.google.com). Enjoy. Welcome to the Straight Dope. * * * rocks ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/11 "2000-02-27T16:03:00Z")
The particular item referred to, about the VP’s sleeping arrangments, was not answered by Cecil, but by the Straight Dope Science Advisory Staff. It is always difficult to know how much information to give and how much resource to cite. We are not trying to write college papers that need a huge bibliography. We are trying to give an answer to a question, plain and simple, and we usually do not try to answer all the other questions that could come up around it… although sometimes we do cover peripheral stuff. In the case of the VP’s house, we could easily list a gazillion ([q.v.](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mgazilli.html)) links to how the VP is elected, how DC was chosen as the site of the capital, who is the current VP, and where does the VP’s cat live. Our general feeling is that we are NOT a search engine, and we are NOT a replacement for individuals looking up stuff they find interesting, by themselves. Also, my guess would be that the inside of the VP’s house is kept fairly secret for security reasons, as is most of the White House. And finally, very often, the information we’re looking for is not necessarily online (or, to be more correct, we don’t necessarily look for it online.) We sometimes cite the book or magazine article, but not always. Hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/12 "2000-02-27T22:00:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by upstatic: > To Kat (specifically)- > > I believe my post went directly over your head. Nope, not all. I think mine went over yours. > [@](#): > > (1) To clear things up, the response I BRIEFLY spoke of can be located by doing the following: type [www.straighdope.com](http://www.straighdope.com) in the address bar at the top of your screen, scroll down to “Search The Straight Dope Archive,” click on it, scroll down the screen (about 40% the way down stop), click on the question posted as “Where does the Vice President of the U.S. live?” It immediately follows “Do insects sleep?” It is directly before “What’s the busiest airport in the world?” (Both of which would have made perfect examples if I had chose not to us the VP one) Sorry, I did not feel like scrolling through the entire page of columns, reading each title, at 2:46 am, so I did a search of Classic Columns and Recent Columns and found nothing. Considering you specified _ **Cecil’s Responses** _, why would I search the Mailbar Archives, which are not written by Cecil? > [@](#): > > (2) One rule of journalism is never to leave the reader with unanswered questions. Unless that rule does not apply to Cecil’s column, it does not matter whether or not the question required a description of the house. So now Cecil and the SDSAB are required to be mind readers of all SD readers? In any case, there’s an extremely large possibility that Cecil or the SDSAB may have gotten their information from these things called books and they can’t link to those. [/quote] (3) Obviously, a newspaper does not expect just the person with the question to read Cecil’s column. So, even though the reader without the computer won’t have access, most readers will have access and would appreciate a little more effort on the part of the newspaper to ‘educate’ the ‘teeming millions.’ The computer, by the way, is a great tool. Why put limits on a limitless web by saying, e.i. because one person hasn’t a computer, we should take it out on the rest? (Oh, by the way, the reader without the computer could go down to the local library and read the online version there) [/quote] So, only one person who read the SD column has no computer? But his/her local library does and has no usage restrictions? And none of the SD readers who _do_ have computers can do further research (such as web searches) if they want to get information beyond what is offered in the column? > [@](#): > > (4) Online, my friend, Cecil does not have limits. Yeah, but he only get paid to write _one_ column a week. Not two. > [@](#): > > And, of course, it doesn’t “directly address the question asked,” it does create a stir in the topic. Ex. If I ask, “Who was the first president of the U.S.?” A teacher responds, “George Washington.” But a great teacher responds, “George Washington was the first president. He was a general during the Revolutionary War, he was a Founding Father, and most important, he had wooden teeth.” (Remember, that is just one example among many) No, a great teacher would say “George Washington was the first president. Go do research and find out what else he did and write a 20 page paper telling why that was important.” > [@](#): > > (5) If you would have payed attention, there was no need for your final question. “The column in question” was an example, and just an example. But, if you’d like to attach this post to the VP column, attach it to all of them without a link. I did pay attention. You feel that posting links to information not directly pertaining to a question being answered is important, but posting links to an example showing exactly what is to be commented upon is unimportant. * * * Your Official Cat Goddess since 10/20/99. _Thunder’s just a noise, boys; lightning does the work._ --C. Brock ---
**Author:** ![manhattan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manhattan/32/7_2.png) [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/13 "2000-02-27T22:10:00Z")
Well, this one is eventually going to wind up in the Pit. I can see that. But first I’m gonna send it to Comments on Cecil’s Columns. Partly because it is, and partly because I owe **JillGat** a favor for sending the lovely “Porn Stars and Viagra” thread. \< g \> Maybe we can play “around the horn” with this one. **Jill** can send it to Mailbag, **Dex** can move it to GD, those guys will send it to MPSIMS, and then the Pit. Someone ask a question about how to link so we can get **Tuba** in on this. ## But I haven’t been staring at a screen all day or anything… [Change Your Password, Please](http://204.95.48.199/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ubbmisc.cgi?action=getannounce&ForumNumber=3&Start=2451545.99&End=2451911&Session=2451598.1854) and don’t use HTML, as it has been disabled ---
**Author:** ![NickyLarson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b2d939/32.png) [@NickyLarson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NickyLarson)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/14 "2000-02-27T22:10:00Z")
That’s telling him, Kat. I also don’t think that having wooden teeth was George Washington’s **MOST** attribute. * * * If it jams, force it; if it breaks, it needed replacing anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [February 27, 2000, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/15 "2000-02-27T23:25:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Someone ask a question about how to link so we can get Tuba in on this. Actually, I’ve got a _different_ ATMB question: How come my “Sorry about the typos” post shows up in the GQ thread but not here? ---
**Author:** ![Michael0916](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/aeb1de/32.png) [@Michael0916](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael0916)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2000, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/16 "2000-02-28T00:47:00Z")
Okay I see where upstatic is coming from but I also see the point of the opposition here. However, the one thing I would like to present is that Cecil really doesn’t even have to do what he does. I believe that he goes into plenty of detail in writing his columns. Often if he doesn’t have enough to fill his column he does go into seperate facts about the article so it sounds to me like your just mad that he didn’t answer YOUR question. But hey that’s what these boards are for…continuing the discussion. So upstatic if you really do care about what the vice president’s house looks like…ask! And oh yeah by the way if I asked a great teacher who George Washington was they would tell me George Washington was the first president. They (like Cecil) don’t do everything for you just because you ask. But if it’s in the lesson plans for today (just like if it’s in the column for today) they’ll explain it. And if not you can talk to the teacher (or us, Cecil, or one of the moderators) for more information. * * * –Michael Or would you rather talk about monkeys? ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2000, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/17 "2000-02-28T01:02:00Z")
[[So, in conclusion, with no link…s…uh…strings attached, respond to this message if you support “Give me links, or give me death!”]] I totally support you here. So _post a link to the column you’re referring to_! Jill ---
**Author:** ![Kat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b19c9b/32.png) [@Kat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2000, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/18 "2000-02-28T01:13:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by upstatic: > \*\*It is not ‘too much to expect’ the Chicago Reader to keep up to date links to all the columns. You said it yourself, it only took you 2 minutes to search for an answer. > > 2 minutes/column times 200 columns = 400 minutes > > 400 minutes/60 minutes = roughly 6 h. 45 min. > > If 7 extra hours of work a year is too much for them, I’ll do it, FOR THEM, for nothing. (We know that you’d charge money and ask them to purchase your book. What was the title again?)\*\* Sorry, I meant to address this also… Yeah, it took two minutes to address _ **one** related question_. You’re assuming there is only one related question that the entire readership of the SD might have for each column. Not likely. (back to the “great teacher” comment) Again, no great, good, or even adequate teacher is going to spoonfeed everyone all the information that they want or need to know, especially since no teacher can know all the information that someone wants or needs to know. (and back to the OP) The question that was asked was answered. _Some_ questions not asked were also answered. It’s impossible to answer, or know, _all_ the questions not asked. If your wasn’t, either ask it in the appropriate Comments forum or spend the two minutes or so to find it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2000, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/19 "2000-02-28T04:04:00Z")
Most of this has been covered in the thread, but I’ll repeat the gist of the answer, anyway. 1. Most SD columns in the archive were written before the internet was such a primary resource for information. 2. Cecil often gets info. (or simply KNOWS it) from sources other than the internet, even today. Can you believe it? Interviews, books, etc. 3. I wrote the Vice President’s House mailbag column, and did include a link for the source of some of my information. Other information I got from a book that did have a lovely picture of the house. I don’t remember the name of the book now, but I bet if you searched at your library, you’d find it. In the future, I’ll try to add those citations, too. Jill ---
**Author:** ![upstatic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ce73a5/32.png) [@upstatic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/upstatic)\ **Post date:** [February 28, 2000, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761/20 "2000-02-28T10:42:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by NickyLarson: > \*\* > > I also don’t think that having wooden teeth was George Washington’s **MOST** attribute. > > \*\* Awwww, come on Nicky. That was just a joke. I hope you weren’t serious when you typed that sentence. * * * R.J.D. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teeming-millions-fight-back/761.md?page=2)