# Teen convicted on terror charges for being "anti-American", launching model rockets **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 15, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299 "2005-06-15T00:14:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/21 "2005-06-15T15:12:47Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > This kid “had been arrested previously for making and selling napalm” … > Also, found in his room “more than 15 kilograms of potassium nitrate, fuses, tubing and a case of lighter fluid”. Ammonium nitrate and fuel oil makes a dandy bomb. I wonder what potassium nitrate and lighter fluid would make? I’m sure there’s an innocent explanation. Maybe him and his dad are trying to start a Vietnam War Re-enactment Society? ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/22 "2005-06-15T15:20:09Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Undisputed. I’m glad that our juvenile records on taste in beer are sealed, though. When I was his age I was fiercely loyal to O’keefe’s Extra Old Stock. :o Great big taste. Where’s that pukey smiley when you need it? I wonder now, should my Canadian-living-in-America son stop wearing his Canadian t-shirts? He doesn’t make napalm. He just misses Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Nanoda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Nanoda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nanoda)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/23 "2005-06-15T15:25:06Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > Patriotism means you are especially loyal to a particular country. If you express American patriotism in Canada, it’s anti-Canadian, to the extent that Canada’s interests do not wholly coincide with America’s. Huh. :dubious: I’m never looking at the International Food Festival the same way again. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/24 "2005-06-15T15:30:17Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > The napalm making and selling is harder to explain. I made napalm as a kid. It was fun stuff. Never sold any, but there’s a good profit to be had in homebrew fireworks. ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/25 "2005-06-15T15:39:20Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > That sounds tongue-in-cheek, but it actually contains some significant political criticism. The kid is at least guilty of being a damned impolite guest. If his parents think it’s OK for him to go around in a t-shirt like that, maybe they need to pack up and head back to the great white north. I thought this was America. You know, that great country where you can express your beliefs and thoughts freely without fear of persecution. Should I also leave country if I decide to go around wearing a t-shirt with “America Sucks” on it? ---
**Author:** ![Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19adc/32.png) [@Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/26 "2005-06-15T15:43:55Z")
Molson Canadian may be shitty beer, but it’s still far superior to the swill Americans brew. And if wearing a frigging maple leaf is gonna get me arrested for being anti-American, then fuck the U.S., _and I fucking live in the States_ My favourite quote is from the Morning Call > [@](#): > > [District Attorney Diane E.]Gibbons said police found Biehn’s parents to be uncooperative during the search. Gibbons said she could not provide the first name of the boy’s mother, but the woman harassed investigators as they searched the house. No fucking shit ! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/27 "2005-06-15T16:28:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Cathy Block, a drama teacher who used to have the Canadian teen as a student, said he is a victim of a new air of “vigilantism” in the United States in the wake of the Columbine high-school killing in Colorado and the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. Well, she _is_ a drama teacher. Surprising Daddy hasn’t excused the napalm-making by saying his son has a healthy interest in weed control. ---
**Author:** ![Ike\_Witt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ike_witt/32/283_2.png) [@Ike\_Witt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ike_Witt)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/28 "2005-06-15T16:38:51Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > Well, she _is_ a drama teacher. Right, it isn’t like the cops have been putting 5 year olds in handcuffs or anything. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/29 "2005-06-15T16:43:14Z")
> [@Imasquare](#): > > Remember a couple of years ago just before the Iraq invavsion Mr Bush said something along the lines of: if you’re not with us, you’re against us. The exact words were: “Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.” – George W. Bush ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/30 "2005-06-15T16:48:03Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > The exact words were: > “Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists.” – George W. Bush I’m with stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/31 "2005-06-15T17:00:12Z")
> [@Rysto](#): > > And now everything becomes clear. This is a fucking frame-up. This poor kid has been railroaded, and it’s sickening. They’ve got the guy they wanted to arrest, so now they’re letting it go. He was found guilty of uttering terroristic threats and possession of incendiary devices. As to the first charge, witnesses reported that the teen had reported his threat to school officials - although they did not take him seriously at first, this is evidence that a threat was made. As to the second charge, he had 15 kilograms of potassium nitrate, fuses, tubing and a case of lighter fluid. He offered an explanation for why he had it. Police offered evidence that such materials could be used to build a bomb. The judge heard the evidence, weighed the credibility of the witnesses, and found the young man guilty. How does this constitute “railroading”? ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/32 "2005-06-15T17:05:58Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > He was found guilty of uttering terroristic threats and possession of incendiary devices. > > As to the first charge, witnesses reported that the teen had reported his threat to school officials - although they did not take him seriously at first, this is evidence that a threat was made. > > As to the second charge, he had 15 kilograms of potassium nitrate, fuses, tubing and a case of lighter fluid. He offered an explanation for why he had it. Police offered evidence that such materials could be used to build a bomb. The judge heard the evidence, weighed the credibility of the witnesses, and found the young man guilty. > > How does this constitute “railroading”? Underlining mine. I have a can of lighter fluid right now, on my desk, at a defense contract facility. This facility has shitloads of solvents and rocket fuel (the real stuff). Are we going to jail for this? I use to play with Estes rockets - I had fuel, fuses, little electric ignitors etc. Should I have been arrested? It’s not always cut and dry. For that matter, I could make a bomb out of match heads or bullets and tubing, just like McGuyver. Having the basic ingredients does not make this a slam dunk unless you can prove intent. That’s the hard part. The bit about the shirt though is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/33 "2005-06-15T17:10:50Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Having the basic ingredients does not make this a slam dunk unless you can prove intent. That’s the hard part. Umm… How hard is it to prove intent when the person possesing the materials writes bomb threats on a bathroom wall? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/34 "2005-06-15T17:10:59Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Right, it isn’t like the cops have been putting 5 year olds in handcuffs or anything. Yup, I guess that tidbit automatically makes every court case a travesty from here on in. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/35 "2005-06-15T17:15:52Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > Umm… > > How hard is it to prove intent when the person possesing the materials writes bomb threats on a bathroom wall? That depends on if he admits doing it, or if you believe his accusers. If it can be believed and verified, then Bingo, you’ve got intent. I’m not taking his side (yet), I’m just saying it isn’t always a slam dunk. You have to admit though, a Molson Ale shirt isn’t exactly evidence. Maybe I should burn my Beck’s shirt and my Lowebrau stuff :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/36 "2005-06-15T17:19:29Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > That depends on if he admits doing it, or if you believe his accusers. If it can be believed and verified, then Bingo, you’ve got intent. Well then, maybe it would be a good idea if they held some kind of event where his accusers came forth, he gave his side of what happened, and someone evaluated it all and decided what really happened? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/37 "2005-06-15T17:26:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > As to the second charge, he had 15 kilograms of potassium nitrate, fuses, tubing and a case of lighter fluid. He offered an explanation for why he had it. Police offered evidence that such materials could be used to build a bomb. The judge heard the evidence, weighed the credibility of the witnesses, and found the young man guilty. Did he actually _have_ an incendiary device, or is this another case of frightened dimwits [calling a rock a destructive device?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=288432&highlight=rock) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/38 "2005-06-15T17:28:17Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I’m with stupid. That clarifies nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/39 "2005-06-15T17:41:42Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > I have a can of lighter fluid right now, on my desk, Lots of people have a can of lighter fluid. How many kids, that are too young to legally smoke, have a case of lighter fluid? If model rocketry was his interest, is potassium nitrate and lighter fluid a well known rocket propellant? Certainly it’s not illegal to own a case of lighter fluid. It is unusual, in and of itself, but when factored in with all of the other unusual items (and that whole bomb threat thing) that this kid had in his possesion, it was enough to raise a red flag. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2005, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299/40 "2005-06-15T17:46:18Z")
> [@Amp](#): > > I thought this was America. You know, that great country where you can express your beliefs and thoughts freely without fear of persecution. Yep. You sure can. > [@](#): > > Should I also leave country if I decide to go around wearing a t-shirt with “America Sucks” on it? Yes. You sure should. Just becaue you are allowed to be an anti-American annoying asshole doesn’t mean that you should be an anti-American annoying asshole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-convicted-on-terror-charges-for-being-anti-american-launching-model-rockets/308299.md?page=3)