# Teen detained after crossing border fights to have abortion **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 11, 2017, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546 "2017-10-11T07:16:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/1 "2017-10-11T07:16:50Z")
[I thought this worthy of note and discussion:](https://apnews.com/09e4bfbd94424ae2badeb1c4cd351b9b/Teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion) > [@](#): > > Rochelle Garza, a lawyer appointed to represent the girl’s legal interests, told The Associated Press on Tuesday that she may be up to 14 weeks’ pregnant. Texas state law prohibits most abortions after 20 weeks. > > Garza says the teen is from Central America, like most people caught crossing the U.S.-Mexico border without legal permission. She declined to give the girl’s name or identify the specific country where she was from, citing the girl’s privacy as a minor, but said that the girl wanted an abortion in part because she had seen her parents abuse another sibling who was pregnant. > > With Garza’s help, the girl obtained a judicial waiver under a Texas law requiring a minor seeking an abortion to get consent from a parent. But staff at the facility where she’s being held refused to take her to her appointments with a doctor to seek an abortion, or let the attorney take her, even though private groups that support abortion rights have raised money for the procedure, Garza said. > > Instead, she was taken to a crisis pregnancy center. Such centers encourage pregnant women not to have an abortion. > > “I feel like they are trying to coerce me to carry my pregnancy to term,” the girl said in a declaration filed in federal court last week. It seems that the subject has come up before: > [@](#): > > The ACLU of Northern California sued HHS last year over what it said was the denial of abortion and contraception to girls in its custody. That case was apparently based on denial by contracted agencies with religious backgrounds, a factor that is said not to be in play here. Anyway, soon the Texas AG (and his nearby counterparts) got involved: > [@](#): > > Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton went further in a separate filing Tuesday. Paxton, who is a strident opponent of abortion rights like most leaders in the nation’s largest conservative state, argued that people in the United States illegally without some type of established ties to the country did not have a “constitutional right to an abortion on demand.” > > If the court rules in the girl’s favor, “the ruling will create a right to abortion for anyone on earth who enters the U.S. illegally,” Paxton said in a statement. “And with that right, countless others undoubtedly would follow. Texas must not become a sanctuary state for abortions.” > > Paxton was joined in filing the brief by the attorneys general of Louisiana, Missouri, Nebraska, Ohio, Oklahoma, and South Carolina. And the whole thing is summed up beautifully with > [@](#): > > Garza argued the girl’s case “really has nothing to do with her immigration status,” and that she had complied with the state’s abortion laws. > > “As far as I’m aware, abortion is legal in this country,” Garza said. “Nobody has the right to force her to have a child against her will.” On a practical level, tho, it seems clear that they can try and may succeed, since time is on their side, not hers. I think Miss Garza is correct, but I’m not confident that this will work out the way I think it should. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/2 "2017-10-11T12:19:02Z")
So… they’re trying to force her to carry the kid to term, right? How much you wanna bet that these folks are then going to make annoying noises about “anchor babies”? Poor girl is damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/3 "2017-10-11T13:51:40Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > So… they’re trying to force her to carry the kid to term, right? How much you wanna bet that these folks are then going to make annoying noises about “anchor babies”? Poor girl is damned if she does, damned if she doesn’t. Nah. Forcible deportation when she goes into labor. Problem solved. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/4 "2017-10-11T15:52:34Z")
I can barely comprehend this. What monsters. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/5 "2017-10-11T16:31:44Z")
How are other illegal immigrants treated when they come to the US for elective procedures? I assume, as the Texas AG says, that they don’t automatically get treatment. Maybe the people who want to pay for her abortion can post bond, or something similar, get her released into their custody, get her the abortion, and then send her back to wherever she came from. Or adopt her, although I don’t know if they need consent from her birth parents. The article only says she is from Central America. According to this [cite](https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/abortion-around-the-world-where-are-rates-highest/13/), the abortion rate is 29 per thousand women. Coming from Central America to Texas, of all places, to get an abortion, may not have been the best choice, but maybe that was as far as she could make it. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/6 "2017-10-11T16:40:27Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > How are other illegal immigrants treated when they come to the US for elective procedures? I assume, as the Texas AG says, that they don’t automatically get treatment. The article I linked in the OP talks about that with respect to one particular elective procedure: > [@](#): > > The ACLU of Northern California sued HHS last year over what it said was the denial of abortion and contraception to girls in its custody. > > Unaccompanied Central American children apprehended at the U.S.-Mexico border are generally turned over to facilities run by private operators on behalf of HHS. Many facilities are affiliated with religious organizations that oppose abortion like the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. Nearly 3,000 unaccompanied children were caught by Border Patrol agents at the border in August, the most recent month for which data is available. > > U.S. lawyers representing HHS argued that the ACLU’s request for a temporary restraining order allowing an abortion to go forward was wrong on technical grounds, since the original lawsuit argued HHS was violating the First Amendment by allowing religious groups to allegedly refuse access to abortion. In this case, the 17-year-old is not being held in a facility with a religious affiliation, government lawyers said. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/7 "2017-10-11T16:54:16Z")
Yes, I read that. I was wondering about other elective procedures apart from abortion. My understanding is that hospitals who are presented with a patient who cannot pay, are obligated to make sure their condition is stable before discharging them. I didn’t see any reference in the article that her pregnancy was anything other than routine. And she is only 14 weeks along - she isn’t in early labor or anything. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/8 "2017-10-11T16:58:16Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, I read that. I was wondering about other elective procedures apart from abortion. My understanding is that hospitals who are presented with a patient who cannot pay, are obligated to make sure their condition is stable before discharging them. I didn’t see any reference in the article that her pregnancy was anything other than routine. And she is only 14 weeks along - she isn’t in early labor or anything. > > Regards, > Shodan The article notes that in Texas, 20 weeks is the cutoff. What are your thoughts on this particular instance tho? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/9 "2017-10-11T17:22:44Z")
My thoughts are that she should probably be treated pretty much the same as any other illegal immigrant who comes to the US for elective treatment. If the abortion rights groups want to pay for her abortion, that’s fine with me - just ship her home afterwards, unless they also want to sponsor/adopt her. I agree with the Texas AG - “if you can sneak over the border, we will give you a free abortion” is not a message I want to spread. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/10 "2017-10-11T17:31:09Z")
She could have gotten an abortion in Mexico [Abortion in Mexico - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Mexico) so there might be more to this story than her desire to get an abortion. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/11 "2017-10-11T17:35:42Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > My thoughts are that she should probably be treated pretty much the same as any other illegal immigrant who comes to the US for elective treatment. Even if the way that any other illegal immigrant has been treated is as detailed in the ACLU suit? > [@Shodan](#): > > If the abortion rights groups want to pay for her abortion, that’s fine with me - just ship her home afterwards, unless they also want to sponsor/adopt her. I agree with the Texas AG - “if you can sneak over the border, we will give you a free abortion” is not a message I want to spread. So how do you feel about the fact that this isn’t a message that was ever going to be spread? As I quoted in the OP: > [@](#): > > even though private groups that support abortion rights have raised money for the procedure, Garza said. I have no evidence that this young lady asked the state or federal government to provide her with an abortion, but I do have evidence that no government funds were going to spent on the procedure. Does the fact that the concern of the Texas AG isn’t a factor in the case he is arguing against have any impact on your thoughts about this? ---
**Author:** ![Falchion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a88e57/32.png) [@Falchion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falchion)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/12 "2017-10-11T17:42:19Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > ?So how do you feel about the fact that this isn’t a message that was ever going to be spread? As I quoted in the OP:I have no evidence that this young lady asked the state or federal government to provide her with an abortion, but I do have evidence that no government funds were going to spent on the procedure. Would you feel differently if sufficient money hadn’t been raised? If the case were based simply on the claimed right of a detainee to receive health care (at government cost) while in government custody? (Tangentially, and irrelevantly, why is HHS involved in this?) ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/13 "2017-10-11T17:45:18Z")
She was running from parents who were abusive. Apparently another sibling had gotten pregnant also. Must not have been a great place to grow up in. Where’s our compassion for this poor girl? I don’t agree with government paying for abortions, but I do agree with womens repoductive rights. I bet you there is a group who would jump in and care for her and give her options. Not helping is not the America I love!! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/14 "2017-10-11T18:03:43Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > Would you feel differently if sufficient money hadn’t been raised? If the case were based simply on the claimed right of a detainee to receive health care (at government cost) while in government custody? That’s a different situation and I’ll point out that providing health care to people in government custody IS something I want done. And in the case of abortions, I do not believe that any woman should be forced, through action or inaction, to carry a pregnancy to term. I would rather that the government pay for the procedure than, through inaction, force her to endanger her own life in order to terminate the pregnancy or carry to term. However, if the policy in place is to not pay, then I understand the policy and can agree that it should be abided by until it is changed. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/15 "2017-10-11T18:04:10Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > She could have gotten an abortion in Mexico [Abortion in Mexico - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_Mexico) so there might be more to this story than her desire to get an abortion. True, but the attorney didn’t say she was from Mexico, but from Central America. Technically, Mexico isn’t Central America, but maybe the attorney accidentally misspoke, or was deliberately vague or misleading, either to protect her privacy, or so as to conceal that she could have gotten the abortion in Mexico City. But who knows? Maybe the ACLU in Texas thought this was a great test case so they could sue Texas for its stance on illegal immigration and abortion, too. > [@Snowboarder Bo](#): > > So how do you feel about the fact that this isn’t a message that was ever going to be spread? It is a bit of an overstatement that this message isn’t ever going to be spread. It is IMO better to be saying “you will get a free abortion from the ACLU” than “you will get a free abortion from the state of Texas”, but I have little faith in the idea that the ACLU is volunteering to pay for all the abortions for all the illegal immigrants that want one, from now on. If they were I could respect that, but I would still want them to deport the illegal immigrants afterwards. And I doubt that the ACLU is volunteering - this is just to get the camel’s nose under the tent of making abortion a special case, distinct from other elective procedures. Or maybe not distinct - maybe the ACLU wants illegal immigrants to get free health care as well as not to be deported. Obviously that’s mostly speculation on my part. But I think things are a bit more complicated than “abortion good, enforcing the immigration laws bad, Texas against abortion and for enforcing the immigration laws, therefore Texas bad”. YMMV. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/16 "2017-10-11T18:12:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > My thoughts are that she should probably be treated pretty much the same as any other illegal immigrant who comes to the US for elective treatment. If the abortion rights groups want to pay for her abortion, that’s fine with me - just ship her home afterwards, unless they also want to sponsor/adopt her. I agree with the Texas AG - “if you can sneak over the border, we will give you a free abortion” is not a message I want to spread. > > Regards, > Shodan How do you know that she was coming to the US for an abortion, as opposed to coming for other reasons and the abortion being incidental? And for that matter, she has no particular right to remain in Mexico, either. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/17 "2017-10-11T18:13:45Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It is a bit of an overstatement that this message isn’t ever going to be spread. I meant “never going to be spread by this case”. It won’t. Because that isn’t what’s happening. The only people spreading that message are lying about what is happening. > [@Shodan](#): > > It is IMO better to be saying “you will get a free abortion from the ACLU” than “you will get a free abortion from the state of Texas”, but I have little faith in the idea that the ACLU is volunteering to pay for all the abortions for all the illegal immigrants that want one, from now on. If they were I could respect that, but I would still want them to deport the illegal immigrants afterwards. Okay, wow; that covers a whole bunch of stuff not happening here and features a ton of speculation. > [@Shodan](#): > > And I doubt that the ACLU is volunteering - this is just to get the camel’s nose under the tent of making abortion a special case, distinct from other elective procedures. Or maybe not distinct - maybe the ACLU wants illegal immigrants to get free health care as well as not to be deported. Okay, more examples of speculation. > [@Shodan](#): > > Obviously that’s mostly speculation on my part. Yep, it was. > [@Shodan](#): > > But I think things are a bit more complicated than “abortion good, enforcing the immigration laws bad, Texas against abortion and for enforcing the immigration laws, therefore Texas bad”. YMMV. More speculation and possibly some projection, IMO; no one has said anything even remotely like that or made any kind of inferences that parallel that. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/18 "2017-10-11T18:13:46Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > True, but the attorney didn’t say she was from Mexico, but from Central America. Technically, Mexico isn’t Central America, but maybe the attorney accidentally misspoke, or was deliberately vague or misleading, either to protect her privacy, or so as to conceal that she could have gotten the abortion in Mexico City. But who knows? > > Maybe the ACLU in Texas thought this was a great test case so they could sue Texas for its stance on illegal immigration and abortion, too. > It is a bit of an overstatement that this message isn’t ever going to be spread. It is IMO better to be saying “you will get a free abortion from the ACLU” than “you will get a free abortion from the state of Texas”, but I have little faith in the idea that the ACLU is volunteering to pay for all the abortions for all the illegal immigrants that want one, from now on. If they were I could respect that, but I would still want them to deport the illegal immigrants afterwards. And I doubt that the ACLU is volunteering - this is just to get the camel’s nose under the tent of making abortion a special case, distinct from other elective procedures. Or maybe not distinct - maybe the ACLU wants illegal immigrants to get free health care as well as not to be deported. > > Obviously that’s mostly speculation on my part. But I think things are a bit more complicated than “abortion good, enforcing the immigration laws bad, Texas against abortion and for enforcing the immigration laws, therefore Texas bad”. YMMV. > > Regards, > Shodan She had to travel through Mexico. This just seems fake to me. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/19 "2017-10-11T18:14:06Z")
> [@Falchion](#): > > (Tangentially, and irrelevantly, why is HHS involved in this?) HHS is responsible for the care of unaccompanied minors apprehended on entering the U.S. Eva Luna, Immigration Paralegal ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546/20 "2017-10-11T18:14:46Z")
> [@Eva\_Luna](#): > > How do you know that she was coming to the US for an abortion, as opposed to coming for other reasons and the abortion being incidental? And for that matter, she has no particular right to remain in Mexico, either. Did she have a visa? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-detained-after-crossing-border-fights-to-have-abortion/798546.md?page=2)