# Teen Thugs take on the wrong 65 year old man. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 26, 2012, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736 "2012-01-26T15:33:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/21 "2012-01-26T18:06:29Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > A complete lack of empathy with another human being. Saying that poverty turns people into monsters is deeply insulting to poor people, the majority of whom are average decent human beings. I don’t disagree. But they didn’t turn into what they did in a vacuum. I don’t really buy that people are born bad. They are products of their environment. ---
**Author:** ![Lynn\_Bodoni](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e47c2d/32.png) [@Lynn\_Bodoni](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lynn_Bodoni)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/22 "2012-01-26T18:10:44Z")
> [@](#): > > If more people shot more muggers, the world would be a better place. QFT. Right now, muggers run very little risk of getting hurt or caught. It’s very cost-effective to mug. I think that everyone should make an effort to make mugging more expensive for muggers. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/23 "2012-01-26T18:14:28Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Nobody ever “rots in jail.” Which is why I would support infecting certain criminals with _Mycobacterium leprae_ at the time of their incarceration.😛 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/24 "2012-01-26T18:43:16Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I don’t disagree. But they didn’t turn into what they did in a vacuum. I don’t really buy that people are born bad. They are products of their environment. I’m as skeptical about free will as any other atheist, but I don’t think you can attribute violent criminal behavior to poverty alone. There are too many decent poor people and too many evil rich people for that to work. > [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I doubt it. More likely, they’ll spend a few years in jail - lifting weights, drinking “pruno”, sodomizing “punks”, hanging with their homeboys who are already in jail, swapping criminal strategies, earning “cred” - and then they’ll get out and do the same thing again. > > Nobody ever “rots in jail.” If they get a life sentence, then they spend it doing the same shit they did before, only in jail, to other prisoners. I think your views on prison life are a bit off. Prisons are hot in summer, cold in winter. The food is awful, there’s nothing to do, you don’t even see a woman other than the occasional staff member, you’re separated from friends and family, you’re locked in a cage for a good part of the day, and it’s crowded with violent people, a good number of whom would like to harm you, even if you are in good standing with some gang or other. There’s a reason people try to avoid going there. And of course this isn’t even getting into solitary, 23 hours a day in a room the size of a walk in closet. We’ve got some posters who’ve worked in prisons, and even a couple of former convicts, I think, so hopefully they’ll weigh in. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/25 "2012-01-26T18:54:47Z")
I’m not saying prison is paradise, but that for real criminals - the ones with gang ties who grew up surrounded by other criminals - it’s not really a “punishment” either. The purpose of prison is basically to keep criminals away from society so that more people can’t be harmed. It’s not to put them through such an unpleasant, hard-assed, traumatic experience that they henceforth swear to _never again_ commit another crime. People _think_ it’s a deterrent, but it’s not really; the main function of prison is to protect society from the prisoners. It works, as long as the prisoners are in prison. When they get out, it stops working. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/26 "2012-01-26T19:02:52Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I think your views on prison life are a bit off. Prisons are hot in summer, cold in winter. The food is awful, there’s nothing to do, you don’t even see a woman other than the occasional staff member, you’re separated from friends and family, you’re locked in a cage for a good part of the day, and it’s crowded with violent people, a good number of whom would like to harm you, even if you are in good standing with some gang or other. There’s a reason people try to avoid going there. [Danny Robbie Hembree, Jr disagrees.](http://www.witn.com/crime/headlines/Death_Row_Inmate_Kill_Me_If_You_Can_138028703.html) > [@](#): > > “Is the public aware that the chances of my lawful murder taking place in the next 20 years if ever are very slim?” Hembree asked. “Is the public aware that I am a gentleman of leisure, watching color TV in the A.C., reading, taking naps at will, eating three well-balanced meals a day?” :mad: ---
**Author:** ![casdave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c6cbf5/32.png) [@casdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/casdave)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/27 "2012-01-26T19:17:55Z")
Offenders do not have the same set of values, what might be a daunting prospect and a possible deterrent is nothing of the sort for them. Whatever you do for a living, there are plenty of folk for whom it holds no appeal, perhaps you even dislike your own occupation, or circumstances, but you get used to it, prison is pretty much how it is for offenders. They become conditioned to accept that prison is simply a normal part of their lives. The first time in prison is usually at such a young age, and of so short a duration that it is pretty much a novel type of adventure break, something to wear on the street as a badge. Prison only tends be become a true deterrent when the offender is 35 or older, by then the reality of their situation hits home, no prospects, hardly able to read, few or no marketable skills.The prison lifestyle along with the jack shit talk loses the novelty and interest, this is when the monotony and boredom strikes home. Prisoners are fantastic at whining about their conditions, only a very few will shrug their shoulders and say that its all of their own doing, prisoners have a sense of entitlement, everything should better, from food, pay or work. Made me smile once when one rather large and very handy prisoner got sick of the perpetual winging and shouted across the shop for the remainder to “shut up and get on with it, what do you xxxxxxx expec? You xxxxxxx deserve it” And shut up they did whilst he worked in there. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/28 "2012-01-26T19:24:24Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > I’m as skeptical about free will as any other atheist, but I don’t think you can attribute violent criminal behavior to poverty alone. There are too many decent poor people and too many evil rich people for that to work. I said environment, not poverty. There’s a lot more to a person’s environment than just an income level. There are plenty of fucked up rich people. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Elk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Anne\_Elk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Elk)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/29 "2012-01-26T19:41:01Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Really? What does Reading offer that they can’t get in Philly? > I’m not excusing their behavior by any means. The vast majority of poor people manage to avoid committing assault and robbery. Reading has cheaper housing compared to nearby cities. Like most rust belt cities the original citizens and jobs moved out. The workers to the sprawling suburbs. The jobs overseas. The urban areas were left in a vacuum, to be filled with people that could not afford to live anywhere else. Most are fine hardworking people, many are not. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/30 "2012-01-26T20:27:26Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Really? What does Reading offer that they can’t get in Philly? They have what used to be a pretty decent outlet mall. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/31 "2012-01-26T21:17:15Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I doubt it. More likely, they’ll spend a few years in jail - lifting weights, drinking “pruno”, sodomizing “punks”, hanging with their homeboys who are already in jail, swapping criminal strategies, earning “cred” - and then they’ll get out and do the same thing again. More likely they’ll spend a few years in jail - avoiding the weight lifting room like the plague, getting their “pruno” stolen, getting sodomized by “butches”, being unable to avoid hanging around homeboys from a rival gang who are already in jail - and then they’ll get out and do the same thing again. Because it’s all they know, and the years in jail certainly didn’t prepare them for anything else. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2012, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/32 "2012-01-26T21:27:48Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Crime is really getting bad when its not even safe to ride a bicycle on a trail. :dubious:… Actually, you can take heart that crime is at the lowest it has been in decades [http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44578241/ns/us\_news-crime\_and\_courts/t/crime-decline-why-low-inflation-among-theories/](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44578241/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/crime-decline-why-low-inflation-among-theories/) so turn that dubious smiley upside down. ---
**Author:** ![PlainJain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5daacb/32.png) [@PlainJain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PlainJain)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/33 "2012-01-27T02:43:55Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I doubt it. More likely, they’ll spend a few years in jail - lifting weights, drinking “pruno”, sodomizing “punks”, hanging with their homeboys who are already in jail, swapping criminal strategies, earning “cred” - and then they’ll get out and do the same thing again. Yeah, I know. I watch the crime shows. It’s just my secret fantasy that assholes like these will actually regret their predatory behavior - especially from a long prison sentence and a cold cell. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/34 "2012-01-27T03:02:06Z")
> [@PlainJain](#): > > Yeah, I know. I watch the crime shows. It’s just my secret fantasy that assholes like these will actually regret their predatory behavior - especially from a long prison sentence and a cold cell. Well, one of them is in no position to learn more about crime. 🙂 Poverty and unemployment drives one to extremes, but they chose to attack someone. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/35 "2012-01-27T03:11:18Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > **Well, one of them is in no position to learn more about crime.** 🙂 > > Poverty and unemployment drives one to extremes, but they chose to attack someone. At least he won’t rot in jail. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/36 "2012-01-27T04:03:49Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > At least he won’t rot in jail. Good point, and well taken. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 7:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/37 "2012-01-27T07:13:56Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > They have what used to be a pretty decent outlet mall. They still do. VF is **awesome**. The last time I went back to visit my parents I stimulated the local economy to the tune of about $300 there. But I digress. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/38 "2012-01-27T07:51:43Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > A complete lack of empathy with another human being. Saying that poverty turns people into monsters is deeply insulting to poor people, the majority of whom are average decent human beings. “Complete lack of empathy?” “Monsters?” Is there some other version of this story that has more details than the one in the OP? The story there is three kids knocked a guy off his bike and tried to get his wallet, and he shot two of them. I’m not saying the guy was at all wrong to defend himself. But there’s no mention of any weapons, other than the victim’s. No mention of any injuries, other than the muggers. And no indication of any past criminal record. All it says is that they knocked him off his bike, and two of them “assaulted” him. But “assault” could be grabbing the front of his shirt and yelling at him. Which is bad, sure, but not “sociopath” bad. Literally, all we know about the dead guy is that he was 16, and one time he tried to rob a guy. I have a real hard time seeing anything to celebrate in that. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Elk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Anne\_Elk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Elk)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/39 "2012-01-27T13:34:52Z")
The latest news report from the Reading Eagle. The three young citizens had attacked two other victims earlier that day, to rob them. The deadest one was on probation for previous not good behavior. The three were not armed, but had punched the armed bike rider off his ride, then kicked him while he was on the ground. The victim/shooter felt that he was trapped and in danger, hence no charges. The report does not say if the robbers were poor or not. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2012, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736/40 "2012-01-27T13:41:36Z")
Which reminds me, one of Goertz’s attackers offed himself last month on the anniversary of the the subway shootings. [1984 New York City Subway shooting - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz#Activities_since_the_incident) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teen-thugs-take-on-the-wrong-65-year-old-man/610736.md?page=3)