# Teenage dumbasses who volunteer to get hazed **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 8, 2003, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818 "2003-05-08T02:38:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MSU\_1978](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@MSU\_1978](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MSU_1978)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/81 "2003-05-14T12:52:22Z")
What et you, Brutus? Hazing is a dinosaur. A generation ago, it was accepted in fraternities and sororities but most if not all colleges have banned the practice, and for good reason. The high school girls in question illustrate how easily this can get out of hand. The hazers should face criminal charges. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/82 "2003-05-14T13:12:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Siege \* > It was on the news for the second morning in a row. One of the girls who got suspended for the hazing is suing the school for humiliating her, if I recall correctly. Another girl’s considering doing so. It’s apparently not over humiliation but just the [disruption](http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-haze14.html') (scroll down) to her school year, according to what I’ve read. They seem to be challenging the appropriateness and/or timing of the punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/83 "2003-05-14T13:38:06Z")
Disrupting her school year is kind of the point of a suspension or expulsion, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/84 "2003-05-14T19:24:09Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by MSU 1978 \* > \*\*What et you, Brutus? Hazing is a dinosaur… \*\* I have not come to haze **MSU1978** , but to bury…Ah, never mind. I heard a ‘Whaaa Whaaa Whaaaaaaaa’ when I read ‘What et you?’. (Or however that soundeffect goes) > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > \*\*How many more people need to die before those like **Brutus** say enough is enough? \*\* 1. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/85 "2003-05-14T21:18:13Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Brutus_\*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > - > > > > Originally posted by Jeff Olsen \* > > How many more people need to die before those like Brutus say enough is enough? > > 14.\*\* One-third of 42, eh? ---
**Author:** ![PhiloVance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e19adc/32.png) [@PhiloVance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhiloVance)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/86 "2003-05-14T23:23:12Z")
> [@](#): > > Well, after reading through this thread I’m pretty damn glad I live in the UK, never heard of anything like this over here, never even heard the word before today. 😕 **AND DOUBLE** 😕 😕 [sub]I thought the UK was where all this shit started. [/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/87 "2003-05-15T02:08:52Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Jeff Olsen_ > \*\*How many more people need to die before those like Brutus say enough is enough? \*\* > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*14. \*\* [http://hazing.hanknuwer.com/](http://hazing.hanknuwer.com/) James Brier Stephen Petz Kevin Lawless James T. Haley Dominante A. Tunac Monico de Guzman Vladimir Gromov Rafael Albano Jr. Alex Anderson Alam Kim Daniel Reardon Ben Klein Brian Jimenez Zachary Jacobs Glenn Suma-oy Kenitha Saafir Kristin High Albert (A.J.) Santos Seth Korona Chad Meredith Stephen Petz Ben Folsom Adrian Heideman James T. Haley Of course one should not hold Brutus to his word. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/88 "2003-05-15T02:25:40Z")
Methinks Brutus is so into supporting hazing has some sort of so-sacred ritual because he’s been on the dispensing end of it. Doesn’t matter that it’s illegal in many places–such as the military where he asserts it’s a good thing to have happen. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Scream\_In\_Darkness](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e8c25b/32.png) [@I\_Scream\_In\_Darkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Scream_In_Darkness)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/89 "2003-05-15T03:03:55Z")
BILL CLINTON and the PLEADEANS are BEHIND THE HAZING! MOTHMAN tried to STOP the HAZING but was PREVENTED by WHITE AMERICANS who EAT at TACO BELL! MEXICO is PARADISE and must be GIVEN TO MEXICO! ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/90 "2003-05-15T04:06:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Monty \* > \*\*Methinks Brutus is so into supporting hazing has some sort of so-sacred ritual because he’s been on the dispensing end of it. Doesn’t matter that it’s illegal in many places–such as the military where he asserts it’s a good thing to have happen. \*\* And why is is ‘illegal’ in the US Armed Forces? Moms complaining to Congress, not any valid military reason. The same reason USMC drill instructors now tell you ‘Shut your gol-darned mouth’, rather then the tried and true “Shut your fucking mouth”. Scared moms, overly concerned about their little Johnnies. And it may be illegal, perhaps, but its not gone. You can bet your ass that the various elite forces have rather interesting ‘initiation rituals’, over and above the standard training fare. The sort of person that bitches and whines over a little spirited hazing is not the sort of person you want to go into combat with. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/91 "2003-05-15T06:11:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*And why is is ‘illegal’ in the US Armed Forces? Moms complaining to Congress, not any valid military reason. The same reason USMC drill instructors now tell you ‘Shut your gol-darned mouth’, rather then the tried and true “Shut your fucking mouth”. Scared moms, overly concerned about their little Johnnies. > > And it may be illegal, perhaps, but its not gone. You can bet your ass that the various elite forces have rather interesting ‘initiation rituals’, over and above the standard training fare. The sort of person that bitches and whines over a little spirited hazing is not the sort of person you want to go into combat with. \*\* Okay, Trog, whatever you say. You are a throwback to a culture that celebrates stupidity and sadism as if it was something to be cherished. I’m quite sure most of us would never want to be in combat with you. And you’re really not smart enough to be in combat with _us_. ---
**Author:** ![Spiny\_Norman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@Spiny\_Norman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiny_Norman)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/92 "2003-05-15T08:22:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > \*\*The sort of person that bitches and whines over a little spirited hazing is not the sort of person you want to go into combat with. \*\* Heh, I’d say that special forces should actively seek out the sort of fighting man that takes control of the situation instead of meekly accepting some sort of BS initiation ritual. If you’ve gone through SF training, I’d say you’ve proven yourself already. Oh, and the sort of commander that lets that sort of non-productive, vindictive BS take place in his unit is not one I’d want to lead me into combat in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![mallocks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f4b2a3/32.png) [@mallocks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mallocks)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 9:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/93 "2003-05-15T09:33:30Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by PhiloVance \* > \*\*😕 **AND DOUBLE** 😕 😕 > > [sub]I thought the UK was where all this shit started. [/sub] \*\* wtf? Haven’t EVER heard of anything even approaching hazing here, fine, correct me if I’m wrong, but back it up, please. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/94 "2003-05-15T12:58:58Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > And it may be illegal, perhaps, but its not gone. You can bet your ass that the various elite forces have rather interesting ‘initiation rituals’, over and above the standard training fare. The sort of person that bitches and whines over a little spirited hazing is not the sort of person you want to go into combat with. \*\* Maybe you can give us examples of what you consider acceptible"hazing"? I heard hazing defined as anything from “anything that makes you feel ‘uncomfortible’” to brandings, beatings, sexual assault and other acts that would be considered felonies in most places. For example, IMHO: -Calling things like chores, yelling or having to recite the greek alphabet hazing is stupid. -Throwing food, paint, or beer at people or eating weird stuff is fairly mild. -Having a pin driven into your chest is a a little worse, but probably won’t kill you -Cracking someone upside the head with a paint can is pretty much unnacceptible -Sitting around in a circle-jerk while people in hoods and bird-masks feed you grain alchohol and stick broomsticks up your ass is pretty much off the chart. I would have to seriously question the value of any organization that indulges in such behavior (as well as the sexuality of the members). Maybe you can enlighten us as to where you fall on the hazing spectrum. I would hate for you to be getting all this shit because your idea of hazing was forcing troops to run until they puke. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/95 "2003-05-15T14:13:30Z")
**msmith357** indeed I suspect, from reading of some of his previous posts in this thread, that the Honourable Roman who speaks in defense of “hazing” is indeed using the word to refer to _ **ANY** _ sort of less-than-comfortable inner-circle rite-of-passage. While to the overwhelming majority of other respondents it refers to pointless, improductive, degrading, potentially life-and-health-threatening abuse that is meted out just for the sake of proving, not that you’re fit to belong to the group or committed to accomplish its mission, but that you desperately want to belong just for its own sake. So, to the rest of us, Marines going throuth “The Crucible” at Parris Island, or SEALS standing in cold water with a boat on top of their heads after 4 straight days w/o sleep, is NOT “hazing” – since the ability to take these stresses is extremely relevant to their mission. Schoolgirls getting pelted with feces and hit upside the head with paint cans to be admitted to the senior class IS. As to the hazERS who are now complaining about their punishment, well, guess now we know who are the _real_ mommys-girl whiners, don’t we? Poor, poor babies. Actions have consequences, imagine that… Oh, and **Brutus**? The US military has had a no-unprovoked-physical-or-verbal-assault-on-recruits policy for its BT DI’s/DS’s for at least a couple of DECADES now. And we still kick ass on a global scale. I that’s going soft because mommy wrote letters, I’m buying those mothers’ stationery. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/96 "2003-05-15T15:08:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by msmith537 \* > \*\*-Having a pin driven into your chest is a a little worse, but probably won’t kill you \*\* I have heard of guys who were hospitalized with broken ribs afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/97 "2003-05-15T15:10:43Z")
**mallocks** - don’t know if it is really hazing, but from my memory English literature is rife with public school horror stories, where the practice of upper classmen physically and mentally abusing underclassmen was pretty much an institution. Maybe I’ll have to crack out my Tom Jones and David Copperfield. Yes, I understand they are works of fiction, but I thought they reflected at least a grain of truth in this respect. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/98 "2003-05-15T18:30:53Z")
**JRDelirious** > [@](#): > > Schoolgirls getting pelted with feces and hit upside the head with paint cans to be admitted to the senior class IS. Thank you. It makes no fucking sense. Being able to withstand moderate to severe abuse makes at least some sense when we’re talking about hazing in the military. Enduring a marathon of pushups in two feet of mud butt-ass naked in the rain, while cruel and unsual, can easily be rationalized as being a handy device in weeding out the boys from the men. **But only when we are talking about stuff like Special Forces**. Even under those circumstances, though, humiliation and degradation shouldn’t be the objective. Physical endurance should be. Whenever I hear stories from people waxing nostalgic about their pledging days in fraternities, I can’t help but shake my head with pity. Paying money for friendship and a sense of belonging is one (pathetic) thing. But getting beat up and spat upon and coerced to act like a lowly animal for the entertainment of others and _still_ having to pay money? Dumb, dumb, dumb! ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2003, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/99 "2003-05-15T18:59:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by you with the face \* > **Thank you. It makes no fucking sense. Being able to withstand moderate to severe abuse makes at least some sense when we’re talking about hazing in the military. Enduring a marathon of pushups in two feet of mud butt-ass naked in the rain, while cruel and unsual, can easily be rationalized as being a handy device in weeding out the boys from the men. But only when we are talking about stuff like Special Forces. Even under those circumstances, though, humiliation and degradation shouldn’t be the objective. Physical endurance should be.** Oy. Thanks for the “follow the bouncing twinkie” flashback. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2003, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818/100 "2003-05-16T00:40:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by you with the face \* > Whenever I hear stories from people waxing nostalgic about their pledging days in fraternities, I can’t help but shake my head with pity. Paying money for friendship and a sense of belonging is one (pathetic) thing. But getting beat up and spat upon and coerced to act like a lowly animal for the entertainment of others and _still_ having to pay money? Dumb, dumb, dumb! \*\* Actually, you pay money so you can pool together your beer money and have a roof over your head. Most people join a fraternity so you can gain access to a social and professional network. It’s useful if you go to a school out in the middle of nowhere. It’s not for everyone though. A lot of guys don’t like loud crazy parties, meeting girls, hanging with a bunch of guys who share similar interests and prefer spending quiet weekends with their roomates watching TV and drinking beers in the dorm. We certainly never beat our pledges (even when they deserved it) or greased them up and paddled them while they barked like a dog. Like military training, pledging is (or should be) designed to accomplish a particular objective: -Take a group of guys who don’t know each other that well and build bonds between them. -Indoctrinate those guys into the traditions of the fraternity -Integrate the news guys into the house with the older guys -Weed out anybody who is likely to be a poor fit. Funny thing is that the pledges expect and need a certain amount of “hazing”. We found that when the pledges got too bored or comfortable, they would pull shit like kidnapping brothers or egging the house in order to instigate a response (which we were happy to provide). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teenage-dumbasses-who-volunteer-to-get-hazed/173818.md?page=6)