# Telemarketing Tomfoolery **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 2, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telemarketing-tomfoolery/205062 "2003-10-02T04:39:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RedDawgEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dbc845/32.png) [@RedDawgEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedDawgEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telemarketing-tomfoolery/205062/1 "2003-10-02T04:39:07Z")
Hardly had I wrested myself from the arms of Morphius on this, the First Day of Telemarketing Freedom, when the phone rang. The Called ID display showed “Number Unavailable”, the dead give-away that this was a telemarketing call. Ah HAH! With all my numbers safely(?) ensconced on the National Do Not Call Registry, I let the answering machine kick in while I started to fill out a bank deposit slip for $11,000. “Hello, this is ‘Jim’ from American Residential Funding.” I could tell it was a recording (of course) so I prepared for the pitch. “I apologize that I was not able to speak with you personally, but here’s a message that I believe will benefit you.” Then there was the sound of two “Touch-Tone” tones and a second recording kicked in which contained the actual sales pitch (by an unidentified female), along with the number-to-call of 866-473-2378, but no mention of the name of the company. I began to envision the resulting trial: “Jim, you stand accused of making telemarketing calls to a number on the NDNCR, how do you plead?” "Not guilty your Honor, I am not a telemarketer and I had nothing to sell. I only believed that the called party would benefit from hearing the third party message that I called forth. " “I see,” replied the Judge, “case dismissed. Consumer, call your next trial.” “Your Honor, we call Consumer vs. an unidentified female of an unnamed company which MAY have an association with American Residential Funding, a company which has no known address or way to contact it.” (The Judge places his head in his hands and shakes it ruefully.) Now, in the unlikely event that this unidentified female could be found and forced to take the witness stand, she too would likely plead "Not guilty your Honor. I did not call the consumer. All I did was record a message, over which I had no control of its use. " “Case dismissed.” replied the Judge. Is this how it’s going to be now? Telemarketing by proxy? A Catch 22 situation in which nobody is clearly in violation of the FTC’s little Can of Worms? What happens in a multi-line “roll-over” phone system where the first of several sequential numbers is NOT on the NDNCR (and therefore on the telemarketer’s fair-game list) when the incoming call rolls over to any one of the other lines which we will say, for the sake of argument, HAVE been entered on the NDNCR? :rolleyes: Oh, and in the unlikely event that anyone is ever successfully prosecuted for a violation, who gets the $11,000? Somehow, I doubt it’s going to be me. More likely it will go into some Government slush fund of which I will never see the benefit. Who does the prosecuting anyway, me or the FTC? They are cetrainly not making it very easy to file a complaint. Just see if you can find a form to fill in or a “submit” button [HERE.](http://www.donotcall.gov/Complain/ComplainDefault.aspx) I also called the FTC number (1-888-382-1222) as the alternate way to file a complaint, only to be told the useful information that you cannot file a complaint before Oct. 1st. Well, DUH! Have they looked at a calendar lately? God help us all. ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telemarketing-tomfoolery/205062/2 "2003-10-02T05:16:00Z")
Thanks to the second court decision, the Do Not Call Registry was not implemented today. Telemarketeers are free to continue their unabated interuptions. ---
**Author:** ![RedDawgEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dbc845/32.png) [@RedDawgEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedDawgEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telemarketing-tomfoolery/205062/3 "2003-10-02T05:21:25Z")
[Oh really?](http://www.msnbc.com/news/973883.asp?0sl=-33#BODY) ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telemarketing-tomfoolery/205062/4 "2003-10-02T05:46:30Z")
> [@](#): > > The FTC is appealing the decision of the federal court in Denver and expects ultimately to implement the National Do Not Call Registry. The FTC also has asked the U.S. Court of Appeals in Denver for an emergency stay of the order prohibiting the FTC from implementing the National Do Not Call Registry. > > **Pending court action, the FTC cannot implement the National Do Not Call Registry.** Most telemarketers, however, also are subject to the Federal Communication Commission’s (FCC) do not call rule, which takes effect October 1, 2003. Source: [http://www.ftc.gov/](http://www.ftc.gov/) > [@](#): > > There has been a great deal of confusion over the past week about whether a National Do-Not-Call Registry is going to go into effect and what consumers can do about unwanted telemarketing calls when the rules become effective on October 1, 2003. FCC Chairman Michael Powell has outlined a number of separate options for consumers who have put their names on the National Do-Not-Call Registry and are called by telemarketers on or after October 1, 2003: > • Instruct the telemarketer to place you on the company-specific do-not-call list. For your own reference, make a note of the date and time you asked to be put on the company-specific list. Having this information may be helpful if you get called again by the same company and wish to file a complaint with the FCC; OR > • Tell the telemarketer that you are on the National Do-Not-Call list and ask the telemarketer if he or she has that list. Make a note of this for your records. Having this information may be useful if you elect to file a complaint; OR > • Explore whether your state has its own do-not-call list. Contact your State Attorney General’s office for more information. Source: [http://www.fcc.gov/](http://www.fcc.gov/) > [@](#): > > The do-not-call list requires telemarketers to pay for a copy of the list so they can know whom to avoid calling. Many telemarketers have the list, but some do not and cannot obtain it since the FTC shut down that aspect of the program on Sunday in response to the court rulings. > > **The FCC can only penalize those who have the list.** > > Powell said that while investigating complaints, the FCC would ask a telemarketing firm accused of a violation whether it had the list. “Lying to us is a dangerous thing,” he said, noting that deceiving the agency could result in serious legal actions. > > Some telemarketers say the legal confusion has their industry in turmoil, with many unsure about which numbers can and can’t be called and what actions will result in penalties. > > U.S. District Judge Edward W. Nottingham in Denver on Monday denied a request to suspend his decision blocking the FTC from running the list. **He also warned the agency could face more legal action for using the FCC to skirt the order.** Source: [http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/01/dont.call.ap/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/10/01/dont.call.ap/index.html) ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telemarketing-tomfoolery/205062/5 "2003-10-02T05:48:17Z")
It would be nice to find the phone number of that judge who keeps ruling that the “no call” list is invalid. Then let’s have _everybody_ who disagrees with that decision call him and express their dissatisfaction. And by gosh, let’s not make all the phone calls at once. Let’s spread it out evenly - 24 hours per day - each day - every day. ---
**Author:** ![RedDawgEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/dbc845/32.png) [@RedDawgEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedDawgEsq)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telemarketing-tomfoolery/205062/6 "2003-10-02T07:01:12Z")
So, Duckster, who are you going to believe, the FTC or MSNBC? BTW, IMHO, trying to cast this as a First Admendment issue is absolutely incredible. The telemarketer’s Freedom of Speech ends at my property line/front door. The fact that he “enters” my house via a copper wire rather than sticking his foot in my door is of no consequence. It is my home and not his place of business. The warning signs have been building up for years. That the telemarketing industry took no action to police themselves has resulted in this action being jammed down their collective throats. It could not have happened to a nicer bunch of leeches. What does it tell you that (if I have heard correctly) a number or telemarketing Big Boys have placed THEIR own numbers on the Registery? Can you say “hypocracy”? ---
**Author:** ![Peanuthead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peanuthead/32/360_2.png) [@Peanuthead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peanuthead)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telemarketing-tomfoolery/205062/7 "2003-10-02T10:42:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by wolf\_meister \* > \*\*It would be nice to find the phone number of that judge who keeps ruling that the “no call” list is invalid. Then let’s have _everybody_ who disagrees with that decision call him and express their dissatisfaction. And by gosh, let’s not make all the phone calls at once. Let’s spread it out evenly - 24 hours per day - each day - every day. \*\* **(405) 609-5140** You’re welcome. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2003, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telemarketing-tomfoolery/205062/8 "2003-10-02T11:28:22Z")
Hit the bastards where it counts, “their” time. If they call, say “hold on, I have to turn off the faucet”, put down the phone, and enjoy your dinner, while the clock ticks away. Alternatively, start using a legitimate 1-900-XXX-XXXX number as your number in any on-line transaction. So when some scumbag telemarketer starts dialing thru his ill-gotten list, he’ll get a nice bill on his monthly statement. Try finding some 900 number that charges $50 for just connecting. Ultimately, someone will have to invent a phone that has a two part ID system. First there’s a list of numbers that you personally vouch for, like relatives, friends, etc. If an incoming number matches it is let through. The second part is a password system where if the incoming caller ID is unknown, a 6 digit key is required before the call will be accepted. This allows your spouse to call from a payphone and still be allowed through. Special provision could be made for calls placed from emergency sources, like police stations. Eventually the telemarketers will have to give up because they won’t be willing to call the same number 999999 times in order to place 1 successful call.