# Telephone Solicitors: The Revenge of the Called! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 17, 2001, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906 "2001-11-17T06:25:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/61 "2001-11-20T07:23:28Z")
Jonathan Chance: > [@](#): > > Well, I wouldn’t call it a ‘parasitic’ job. No more than I would call any sales job parasitic. You’re taking other peoples’ resources for your own gain. Sounds parasitic to me. \*\* [/QUOTE] Um, excuse me? Isn’t that the point of every business? Heck, even your corner-store does that! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/62 "2001-11-20T08:00:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zoogirl \* > Um, excuse me? Isn’t that the point of every business? Heck, even your corner-store does that! \*\* No. With such a poor understanding of economics, it is no wonder you were unable to get a better job than telemarketing. For a socially responsible company, every transaction results in a net increase in value for the customer. Any company that has, as its business model, the transfer of value from the public to themselves is parasitic. Your implication, that a company that derives some benefit from a transaction must be doing so at the expense of the customer, is downright Marxist and assumes that the economy is zero sum. ---
**Author:** ![Nicklz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicklz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicklz)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 9:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/63 "2001-11-20T09:25:00Z")
I was a telemarketer for awhile, a couple points to point out: A cop is paid alot more than a telemarketer, true there is expenses (building, management) but all in all it is more beneficial for the police departments to hire fundraising companies to do it for them. When I worked in the buisness, I would raise hundreds of dollars per hour!! And I got $7.50 an hour. Plus telemarketers are trained, they are also annoying (i’ll admit that) Plus, you have to remember most telemarketers are just college students, and it’s just a part time job. So if you piss them off all they have to do is press the “call back later” button. And the numbers are automatically dialed and given to hundreds of different telemarketers so the same person calling you back is very rare, unless it has something to do with repore, as like in the real estate. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/64 "2001-11-20T12:31:50Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eonwe \* > \*\ ***Fenris** , if you can pull that sort of thing off, more power to ya, but I was almost crying with sympathy for the woman who called you. If I had been she I’m sure I would have broken down in tears. \*\* I wouldn’t have. I would have hung up the phone and said “Ooo…k…”, and moved along to my next call. Then on my lunch break, I would have said to my collegues “You wouldn’t believe the guy I got today! Poor man! It’s so bizarre!..” I worked in telemarketing for a week. I got plenty of abuse, weirdos and crazy people on the other end. But I’d just hang up the phone and move on to the next call, and make a mental note to share stories of the best ones next time we were talking about it. By the way, I would never ever telemarket again. I didn’t realise what a horrible thing it is (I was 17, and had never encountered telemarketing before), and I’m fully behind moves to make it illegal. Nothing annoys me more than someone taking advantage of the telephone service I pay for to enter my home and hassle me to buy something from them or to donate to them. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/65 "2001-11-20T12:42:58Z")
Oh, and re cost of training - I don’t know how much it cost them to put 8 of us in a room together, give us an hour to read over the scripts and then set us loose on the world, but I suspect it wasn’t a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/66 "2001-11-20T13:33:51Z")
The _administrative_ costs of hiring and terminating people are very very high. I know you’re in Australia, but I don’t imagine things are too different. For every person you hire, there are governmental forms to fill out and then you have to file taxes for the person, etc., and send them their forms at the end of the year… Plus there are the internal administrative costs. Also, with each person you hire, you are taking the risk that something will go wrong and lead you into some kind of lawsuit or something. The recruiting costs for the 8 of you in the room can also run into quite a chunk of change. High employee turnover is one of the biggest inflators of payroll expense, and training is often the least of the costs. Maybe someone in HR can provide clearer examples. ---
**Author:** ![Cazzle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cazzle/32/75_2.png) [@Cazzle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cazzle)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/67 "2001-11-20T14:14:23Z")
My company was dodgy. They took tax out of my wages, but never sent me a group certificate (therefore I couldn’t declare that income and claim back any tax I’d overpaid). They were a company that moved around, spending 8 weeks in any given town before moving on. I don’t think legitimacy was a large part of their business 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/68 "2001-11-20T14:18:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by zoogirl \* > > Um, excuse me? Isn’t that the point of every business? Heck, even your corner-store does that! \*\* > > No. With such a poor understanding of economics, it is no wonder you were unable to get a better job than telemarketing. For a socially responsible company, every transaction results in a net increase in value for the customer. Any company that has, as its business model, the transfer of value from the public to themselves is parasitic. Your implication, that a company that derives some benefit from a transaction must be doing so at the expense of the customer, is downright Marxist and assumes that the economy is zero sum. \*\* You, sir, are rude. And your understanding of business implies to me that you are not, indeed, a businessman. Though I love the caveat ‘socially responsible company’. ---
**Author:** ![RainbowDragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/6a8cbe/32.png) [@RainbowDragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RainbowDragon)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/69 "2001-11-20T14:20:47Z")
Like anything else, there are good telemarketers and bad telemarketers: Good telemarketers do market research to make sure people on the call list are receptive to telemarketing (not on "do not call lists” or with unlisted numbers) and would possibly purchase their product. They take into account appropriate hours to call (including avoiding dinnertime). Their scripts allow the called to say “no thank you” and to hang up. They take those who say no off their lists and don’t bother them again. Evil telemarketers call random numbers and make thousands of calls hoping to get one sucker on the line. Or worse yet, they target senior citizens and people they deem vulnerable. The item they sell has little to no value, and better bargains are to be had shopping at Kmart. They call anytime the law allows, and sometimes during time periods prohibited by law. They read long scripts constructed to prevent the called from saying “no thank you”. Once they make a sale, they make sure to put them on a sucker list so they can be called again and again, or perhaps sell it to other evil telemarketers. The problem is that the evil telemarketers have ruined the market for legitimate and honest good telemarketers. Thus many consumers burned by evil telemarketers view the entire profession as evil. ---
**Author:** ![Chanteuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de053/32.png) [@Chanteuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chanteuse)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2001, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/70 "2001-11-20T17:06:45Z")
I would like to point out the main differences between the corner store and a telemarketer. 1. I walk into the corner store–they don’t call me up and ask if I want anything. Therefore, the choice of hearing from them is mine alone. 2. When I do go into the corner store, they ask if they can help me. If I say “No, thank you, I’m just looking for now,” they back off and let me peruse their goods. They don’t start trying to tell me that I really do need what they have and if I had any sense about me I’d know this (“I know your reasons for declining, but if you’d stop and consider for just a moment…”). This is precisely the attitude I’ve gotten when I politely try to say no. This is also the reason people have stopped trying to be polite. 3. When I am ready to make a purchase and turn around to find the person who offered help previously, that person has disappeared, apparently sinking through the floor. Everyone knows that getting rid of a telemarketer takes an act of Congress and sixteen restraining orders!😉 ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/71 "2001-11-21T08:06:00Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zoogirl \* > \*\*Jonathan Chance: > > > [@](#): > > > > Well, I wouldn’t call it a ‘parasitic’ job. No more than I would call any sales job parasitic. > > You’re taking other peoples’ resources for your own gain. Sounds parasitic to me. \*\* Um, excuse me? Isn’t that the point of every business? Heck, even your corner-store does that! \*\* [/QUOTE] I believe the problem lies in my taking your wording literaly. When you talked about taking other peoples resources etc., I saw it at face value, with resources meaning money. Now surely free enterprise involves taking in more money than is put out, otherwise all items would be sold at wholesale price, with the store owner merely acting as a distributer. Please keep in mind also that I have been refering to telemarketing companys that are legitimate and offer a decent product or service at a fair price. As far as the bad ones go, they annoy me a lot more than you. I would love to see the scam artists shut down. The best part about calling repeat customers is that our credibility is already established. ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 8:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/72 "2001-11-21T08:25:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Mayflower \* > . Everyone knows that getting rid of a telemarketer takes an act of Congress and sixteen restraining orders!😉 \*\* Actually, Mayflower, what works with me is this–“No, sorry I’m not interested. Thanks anyway, bye.” CLICK It’s short, to the point and polite. I will say “Thanks anyway, sir/ma’am, bye.” and I will hang up. Then I will write DNCB on the sheet and move on to the next call. If you say “I’m not interested right now”, I will ask if I may call back in the Spring, and then I will hang up. Doesn’t anyone realize it’s YOUR phone, and you can hang it up whenever you want?! I have neither the time or energy to keep calling you if you have no intention of using our service. I get amazingly few people that simply hang up as soon as I say hello, but when I get one it goes straight on the Do Not Call Back list. A polite refusal simply makes you look better, either way, you’re off the list. Sorry for the consecutive posts. I don’t seem to be able to get two quotes into one post. Still figuring this thing out! ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/73 "2001-11-21T08:29:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zoogirl \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by zoogirl \* > > \*\*Jonathan Chance: > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > Well, I wouldn’t call it a ‘parasitic’ job. No more than I would call any sales job parasitic. > > > > You’re taking other peoples’ resources for your own gain. Sounds parasitic to me. \*\* > > Um, excuse me? Isn’t that the point of every business? Heck, even your corner-store does that! \*\* Argh! And I need to preview! The quote was from The Ryan. Sorry, Sorry, Sorry, Jonathan!!! ---
**Author:** ![grendel72](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/91b2a8/32.png) [@grendel72](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grendel72)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/74 "2001-11-21T08:38:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by zoogirl \* > > Doesn’t anyone realize it’s YOUR phone, and you can hang it up whenever you want?! \*\* The ones who don’t seem to realise whose phone it is are the telemarketers. Yes, it’s my phone, I pay for it so I can talk to my friends or call 911 in the event of an emergency. I don’t pay for a phone in order to have complete strangers harass me. ---
**Author:** ![puk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ea5d25/32.png) [@puk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puk)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2001, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/75 "2001-11-21T08:54:18Z")
> [@](#): > > I believe the problem lies in my taking your wording literaly. When you talked about taking other peoples resources etc., I saw it at face value, with resources meaning money. Now surely free enterprise involves taking in more money than is put out, otherwise all items would be sold at wholesale price, with the store owner merely acting as a distributer. > Please keep in mind also that I have been refering to telemarketing companys that are legitimate and offer a decent product or service at a fair price. As far as the bad ones go, they annoy me a lot more than you. I would love to see the scam artists shut down. The best part about calling repeat customers is that our credibility is already established. See, the point is that convinence store provides a sevice to you: convenience. They do not produce the goods they sell, nor do they distribute them. The corner store pays other companies to do that for them. What they provide is localility and a diverse range of goods. What they charge over wholesale+distribution is the price of this convinience. You as a consumer decide if this service is worth the price, or whether you would rather go to a mall for your shopping needs. Simple non? Also, I believe you are not an evil telemarketer. I believe you are one of the good ones. The last of a dying breed even. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7feea3/32.png) [@The\_Ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Ryan)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/76 "2001-11-22T00:15:45Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > You, sir, are rude. And your understanding of business implies to me that you are not, indeed, a businessman. I admit that I have not been as charitable as I would be to someone defending a legitimate business enterprise. Whether that rises to the level of rudeness is questionable. I note that while I followed my statements with support, you provide no evidence for your implication that my understanding of business is flawed. > [@](#): > > Though I love the caveat ‘socially responsible company’. Why? zoogirl: > [@](#): > > Now surely free enterprise involves taking in more money than is put out, otherwise all items would be sold at wholesale price, with the store owner merely acting as a distributer. Presumably the business isn’t giving **any** money to their customers; that would be a rather strange business model. But if the value of the resources given to the customers does not exceed the value of the resources taken from the customers (where “value” refers to value to the customer), then the business is parasitic. > [@](#): > > Please keep in mind also that I have been refering to telemarketing companys that are legitimate and offer a decent product or service at a fair price. Only to the people that buy the products. For the people that do not buy your product, resources have been taken, but nothing has been given in return. On the other hand, if someone visits a corner store and fails to buy anything, that is their fault, not the store’s (unless there was false advertising). JC mentioned that 1% is a good response rate. That means that 99% of people do not think that you offer a decent product or service at a fair price. Perhaps their opinion should be weighted more heavily than yours? ---
**Author:** ![bizzwire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/958977/32.png) [@bizzwire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bizzwire)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2001, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/77 "2001-11-22T07:11:22Z")
You rarely ever hear a kid say “when I grow up, I wanna be a telemarketer!” The poor bastards who call are doing the scut work for some faceless shitheel, and there’s no glory to be gained in making their lives more miserable than I always imagine them to be. I go for the quick-kill by saying "Gee, a credit card with an annual fee of _ONLY_ 40 dollars?! Sounds great!!! Unfortunately, I’ve joined the Peace Corps and will be leaving for the Ivory coast next week, so I really don’t need a credit card/toaster oven/financial planner. But thanks for calling. ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/78 "2001-11-23T04:57:29Z")
I feel I ought to reply to some of The Ryan’s points. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Ryan \* > \*\* > > > [@](#): > > > > \*Originally posted by Jonathan Chance \* > > You, sir, are rude. And your understanding of business implies to me that you are not, indeed, a businessman. > > I admit that I have not been as charitable as I would be to someone defending a legitimate business enterprise. > > > [@](#): > > > > Have I not made it clear that both the company I work for and Mr zoogirl’s company are indeed legitimate? Sticking to the Carpet Cleaners, they have been in business nearly twenty years. The company has offices in a couple of provinces. This is no “here today, gone tommorow” outfit. I have worked there almost a year, and I am quite far down the seniority list. Some of the customers that I call go back as far as the opening of the local office, and have their carpets done by us every year. These people expect us to call, and are usually glad to hear from us. > > > > zoogirl: > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > Now surely free enterprise involves taking in more money than is put out, otherwise all items would be sold at wholesale price, with the store owner merely acting as a distributer. > > > > Presumably the business isn’t giving **any** money to their customers; that would be a rather strange business model. > > > > > [@](#): > > > > > > Are you being deliberatly obtuse? Of course I meant that the company would not put out more money buying stock tham it is able to recover through sales, and that a company expects to have a reasonable profit margin. > > > > Please keep in mind also that I have been refering to telemarketing companys that are legitimate and offer a decent product or service at a fair price. > > Only to the people that buy the products. JC mentioned that 1% is a good response rate. That means that 99% of people do not think that you offer a decent product or service at a fair price. Perhaps their opinion should be weighted more heavily than yours? \*\* I don’t know that I can agree 99% of people don’t think the product is decent or the price fair. Judging from the response I get, the people who turn me down do so for the following reasons: Since the last job, they a) removed the carpets, b) bought a steam cleaner, c) moved into an apartment, d) do not feel the carpets are dirty enough to need cleaning. A certian percentage are lost when one of our rivals has a sale, but we gain back as many when it’s our turn to run a sale. The great majority of turndowns are simply people who want me to call back during a different season,- spring cleaning etc. The issue of price and quality of work very seldom enters into it for the simple reason that these are REPEAT customers. They are already familliar with the service. I understand that for a lot of people the issue of privacy is the main complaint, and people object to paying for an unlisted phone etc. Well, telemarketing is basically advertising. We are bombarded with ads of all kinds every day, and to avoid them we must pay extra. Don’t like TV ads? You’ll need to pay for cable. Don’t like radio ads? Cable FM. My computer pops ads up at me all the time. Maybe one of the reasons I don’t see telemarketing as outragusly intrusive is because for years I didn’t have a private phone. My parents must have been on the last party line in Canada, so I always had to be aware that it wasn’t just “our” phone. As an adult, we have often lived in multi-suite houses or apartments where one phone was shared by several families. This has made a real impact on my view of the phone as a strictly private item. As long as our phone number is listed in the directory, I assume that I have given permission to be called. Now, having said that, I want to make it clear that I completely disagree with the use of “random dialers” that generate a number on a purely numerical basis. Those ARE intrusive, as they invade the privacy of people who have unlisted numbers. As far as I’m concerned, unlisted is out-of-bounds. ---
**Author:** ![kabbes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e99b99/32.png) [@kabbes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kabbes)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2001, 10:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/79 "2001-11-23T10:55:41Z")
So remind me again who’s paying for the advertising medium on television? The BBC in this country is entirely funded by a mandatory licence fee payable annually. Since it is paid for by _us_, it has _no adverts on it_. I pay for my phone line. I want no adverts on it. pan ---
**Author:** ![zoogirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b9bd4f/32.png) [@zoogirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoogirl)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2001, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906/80 "2001-11-24T05:54:45Z")
Kabbes, 'fraid that’s not the way it is over here. We pay, (oh boy do we pay!) for even basic cable. The average half hour show actually runs about 22 minutes- the rest is ads. It’s the same thing with radio. The only way to avoid advertising is to pay for Pay-per-View movies at about $2.00cdn a show, hence my point about people complaining about the cost of an unlisted phone. If you’re willing to pay that much to avoid TV ads, why complain about a couple dollars per month to ensure phone privacy? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telephone-solicitors-the-revenge-of-the-called/93906.md?page=5)