# Teleportation would destroy the world. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 27, 2013, 8:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285 "2013-08-27T08:53:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/61 "2013-08-28T10:03:32Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > We will have remote controlled robots accessible via the internet. The technologies are on right trajectory - massive broadband providing an immersive sensory experience for the controller of a drone anywhere on the planet. Drone might be digging a hole, fighting a war, cutting down trees, … drinking a beer. Every action will leave an audit trail. Any freely available drone can be occupied anywhere at any time (subject to battery charge and pricing limitations). Yeah drones will be used for many kinds of work (alongside autonomous robots). Not sure what you mean by the drink beer comment though. I don’t know why you’d want to control a drone to drink a beer. Even in a hypothetical reality where we only interact with the real world via some kind of “Avatar” set up, it seems absurd that we would go to the effort of preparing real beer, when we can press the neuro buttons to make you have that experience (and much better ones) at any time. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/62 "2013-08-28T11:24:25Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > That’s what you say, and I’m sure you believe it, but you aren’t showing any evidence. Are you suggesting that you could control both bodies as if they were your body, and that you could see through both sets of eyes? Because that’s the question one must answer to prove that slurry-based teleportation is not death. In order for _you_ to survive teleportation of this sort, it must not matter which one lives and which dies. In order for it to not matter which one lives and which dies, you must control both bodies at the same time. You must be able to see through all four eyes just as you can see through two eyes now. Yes, that requires the existence of a soul. But I am not saying, “Yes, there is a soul,” I am saying IF there is not a soul THEN teleportation is death. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile, using the evidence (ha!) from Star Trek, then, yes, Captain Kirk is still Captain Kirk. He has the same memories, the same self-awareness, the same emotions. None of his friends can tell the difference. He passes every possible objective test for selfhood. No, he doesn’t. He passes the basic tests to say he’s Captain Kirk, but that’s only because he is the product of a device _specifically_ designed to fool those tests. You could reasonably conclude that I am a living, breathing person, but if you _knew_ that I was the product of a machine built to simulate a living, breathing person, you’d be an idiot to not question the fabricated evidence of my existence. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Um… Why? If I can’t tell the difference, why are you saying that I would be able to “feel” the difference? You’re positing some kind of extra-sensory perception. Few of us, here, buy into that. You don’t need ESP because he’s flat out _telling you_ what you need to know. He’s saying “Hey, Trinopus, I’ll pay you a million dollars if you let me murder your wife. Don’t worry, I’ll also create a doppelganger that knows what your wife knew, thinks like your wife thought, and loves you like your wife loved you.” Do you take him up on his offer? Anyone who would say yes is either an idiot or does not love their wife. Loving someone means you care about things for _their_ sake, not just your own. You should care about the fact that your wife will be murdered if you say yes, and not just that you’ll continue to receive the benefits of your relationship with her. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/63 "2013-08-28T11:42:30Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Anyone who would say yes is either an idiot or does not love their wife. I should probably clarify this: Someone _thinking_ they would say yes and saying so here does not understand the question. Actually _acting_ on this lack of understanding is what would make you an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 11:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/64 "2013-08-28T11:57:44Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > You don’t need ESP because he’s flat out _telling you_ what you need to know. He’s saying “Hey, Trinopus, I’ll pay you a million dollars if you let me murder your wife. Don’t worry, I’ll also create a doppelganger that knows what your wife knew, thinks like your wife thought, and loves you like your wife loved you.” > > Do you take him up on his offer? > > Anyone who would say yes is either an idiot or does not love their wife. Loving someone means you care about things for _their_ sake, not just your own. You should care about the fact that your wife will be murdered if you say yes, and not just that you’ll continue to receive the benefits of your relationship with her. By murder do you mean “stab her repeatedly with a knife until her bodily functions stop?” Or do you mean “she steps into a machine, doesn’t feel any pain or notice anything happen to her at all, but her atoms are reconstituted 5 ft away?” Because I would absolutely do the latter for myself in a second. I’d ask my wife if she wanted to do it; I wouldn’t make that decision for her, but I would think it was really weird if she didn’t agree to it. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/65 "2013-08-28T12:04:16Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > By murder do you mean “stab her repeatedly with a knife until her bodily functions stop?” Or do you mean “she steps into a machine, doesn’t feel any pain or notice anything happen to her at all, but her atoms are reconstituted 5 ft away?” For the sake of simplicity let’s say it’s painless. Say, poisoning her in her sleep. If you knew with 100% certainty that they would fulfil their end of the bargain, and create a doppelganger that thought and acted like your wife as well as giving you a million dollars, would you let them kill your wife? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/66 "2013-08-28T12:17:05Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > No, he doesn’t. He passes the basic tests to say he’s Captain Kirk, but that’s only because he is the product of a device _specifically_ designed to fool those tests. You could reasonably conclude that I am a living, breathing person, but if you _knew_ that I was the product of a machine built to simulate a living, breathing person, you’d be an idiot to not question the fabricated evidence of my existence. We don’t (and cannot) know if normal sleep does this to you every night - ‘you’ die, a ‘copy’ of you wakes in the morning. The only connection you have to your past, that makes you ‘you’ is your memories - and a copy of you would have those. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/67 "2013-08-28T12:23:43Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > For the sake of simplicity let’s say it’s painless. Say, poisoning her in her sleep. If you knew with 100% certainty that they would fulfil their end of the bargain, and create a doppelganger that thought and acted like your wife as well as giving you a million dollars, would you let them kill your wife? As I said already, that would be her decision, not mine. In this hypothetical, there are no complications? The replication always works? If so, I would do that for myself. ---
**Author:** ![theotherme](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cc9497/32.png) [@theotherme](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theotherme)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/68 "2013-08-28T12:34:28Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > We don’t (and cannot) know if normal sleep does this to you every night - ‘you’ die, a ‘copy’ of you wakes in the morning. > > The only connection you have to your past, that makes you ‘you’ is your memories - and a copy of you would have those. And even if not during sleep, there are certain forms or anesthesia (Profound or Deep Hypothermic Circulatory Arrest) where the brian is cooled, its blood supply is stopped, causing all brain activity to completely cease for up to an hour. So, if you undergo that, do you die and then does a copy of you wake up once the procedure is completed? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 1:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/69 "2013-08-28T13:10:10Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Yes, that requires the existence of a soul. But I am not saying, “Yes, there is a soul,” I am saying IF there is not a soul THEN teleportation is death. This is the mistake people make on this topic. People on both sides of the debate seem to assume that the _other_ POV requires the existence of souls. But neither side does. Entirely Materialist arguments for the “Teleportation is death” and the “You are one and the same” positions can and have been formulated. This is why it’s such a big problem in philosophy. If it came down to souls or X, then 99% of philosophers would have taken the X position, and most of those would consider it a trivial, solved problem. That is not the case. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/70 "2013-08-28T13:25:49Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I should probably clarify this: Someone _thinking_ they would say yes and saying so here does not understand the question. Actually _acting_ on this lack of understanding is what would make you an idiot. Hey, **Grumman** , just play along for a bit, OK? I agree with you (if you came up to me and asked if you could vaporize me / stab me to death and replace me with a duplicate, I would certainly run like hell in the other direction), but it’s interesting to explore both sides of the argument here, and that’s kind of hard to do if you just shut down the discussion and call people names. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/71 "2013-08-28T15:30:00Z")
Ah… here’s the argument for those who don’t quite get it. Say that someone does the run up and stab you dead, and replace you with an EXACT duplicate thing. Let’s say that the EXACT duplicate is say… 5 seconds back. You would have died a painful death at the hands of the stabber, and the duplicate “you” would be “you” 5 seconds earlier, and would think “Why am I dead and bloody on the ground in front of me?” Not really “you” in that case, right? Now let’s say that at the exact moment of death, that’s when the duplicate’s created. The duplicate would think "Whoa, that was weird… why am I standing up?.. wait, why am I dead and bloody on the ground in front of me? It ultimately comes down to whether or not _you_ are basically the sum of your memories interacting with your biological hardware, or if there’s more to it than that. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/72 "2013-08-28T15:37:16Z")
It’s also those old questions that only five year olds are smart/stupid enough to ask (I can’t seem to decide which): Why am I me, and not you? What would it be like if I were you? Does the question even make any sense? If I woke up tomorrow morning with my next door neighbor’s body and all his memories, what would that be like? Is it a meaningful thing to think about? Who is to say it hasn’t already happened? How would I tell the difference? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/73 "2013-08-28T15:40:20Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I was just thinking how great it must have been to eat spoiled food, until lousy refrigeration was invented and popularized. Tell that to the poor unemployed meat-salters. ☹ Generally speaking, the net effect of a technological advance is good for everybody. But it almost always has some effects bad for **somebody,** at least in the short term. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/74 "2013-08-28T15:48:13Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Tell that to the poor unemployed meat-salters. ☹ > > Generally speaking, the net effect of a technological advance is good for everybody. But it almost always has some effects bad for **somebody,** at least in the short term. Absolutely. But, the exchange that prompted my post was this: > [@Alessan](#): > > When has an invention that makes life easier ever harmed society? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Probably every single time, in one way or another. That is, harmed society, rather than harming a few while making society as a whole better off. That’s the distinction I was reacting to. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/75 "2013-08-28T15:50:36Z")
> [@pkbites](#): > > Why would you live in Duluth when you could live in Sarasota and teleport to work? Because Duluth is an inherently nicer place–prettier with less heat and humidity, no fire ants or Brown Recluse spiders, no alligators, no hurricanes, hills rather than featureless swamp, and the large body of adjacent water is fresh, not salty. The point being that different people will continue to like different locations, (I am sure that there are people who actually thought your comparison was valid). However, even teleportation will not create affordable, attractive housing in every “desirable” location. Air conditioning has probably already caused more people to move to less habitable locations than teleportation ever would. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/76 "2013-08-28T16:00:15Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > We don’t (and cannot) know if normal sleep does this to you every night - ‘you’ die, a ‘copy’ of you wakes in the morning. > > The only connection you have to your past, that makes you ‘you’ is your memories - and a copy of you would have those. I’ve always had a sneaking suspicion that every moment we are shifting realities and identities (along with memories) but don’t know it, so it seems to us like we’re always the same person. Which kind of sucks- I like my life, but why is it this one- why couldn’t the reality I feel sure I actually am a part of be the reality where I’m a starship captain? ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/77 "2013-08-28T16:05:51Z")
There are also other ways to create duplicates. Take the time traveler who meets his double (just forget for a moment that time machines are impossible, and disregard the obvious paradoxes, problems of causality, free will and all that). Say this evening someone knocks on the front door. I open it, and a guy who looks just like me is there. He says, guess what, the phone booth outside is actually a time machine outside, you might want to check it out. I get curious, go outside and enter the box, it hums for a while, and I step out to discover that it’s five minutes earlier. I think, hey, my past self should know about this, I wonder if he’s home. I go up to my apartment, knock on the door, and a guy who looks just like me opens. …and then we make out. OK, probably not. But anyway, I guess you see the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Don\_t\_Panic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/don_t_panic/32/398_2.png) [@Don\_t\_Panic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Don_t_Panic)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/78 "2013-08-28T16:16:00Z")
And it you don’t (because you were distracted by the mental image of me making out with myself): If (big if) you agree that if you met your time-traveling double, both individuals are unquestionably “you”, is it not at least slightly possible that both might be “you” in the replicator scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/79 "2013-08-28T16:39:22Z")
> [@Martian Bigfoot](#): > > There are also other ways to create duplicates. Indeed. What if the universe just delivers a duplicate by random chance: a planet a billion light years away happens to be identical to earth, to the atom. Though it’s in a different part of the universe, the stars happen to look the same from its location. Only at the point where I die do the two planets diverge, with the other me surviving due to some random quantum event. So…do I wake up as the other me? For those who believe the transporter does genuinely transport you, this question is problematic. If yes, how? How could I start my life on Earth and somehow finish it further away than even light could have travelled in that time? If no, then why is this different from the transporter? How does the universe know and why does it “care” about the difference between a natural and synthetic duplicate? ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285/80 "2013-08-28T16:45:19Z")
I would definitely not make out with myself, because I’m not my type. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/teleportation-would-destroy-the-world/667285.md?page=5)