# Televangelists and Astrology **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 7, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729 "2018-05-07T02:22:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/1 "2018-05-07T02:22:28Z")
I was just flipping channels and came across a televangelist named Paul Begley. I occasionally will watch these guys because some of them are actually really entertaining, but this guy wasn’t. However, the subject matter of his sermon astonished me. He was talking about all this astrological shit, Leo and Taurus and everything, and how the moon and Mercury and Saturn and Neptune were aligned in a certain way, according to a Biblical prophecy (something in Revelations.) I didn’t realize that the kind of Christians who are televangelists, buy into astrology at all. I would think the would reject it as black magic or pagan superstition. Is this a common thing among evangelical Christians, or is this one guy just an odball? ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/2 "2018-05-07T03:09:53Z")
Man who believes in one form of ancient mystical mumbo-jumbo, believes in another. Who would have guessed? Basically, religious fundies will grab onto anything that could be twisted to back up their beliefs. If Mickey Mouse said ‘Remember when there was all that water lying around?’, they’d grab that as confirmation of Noah’s flood. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/3 "2018-05-07T03:22:47Z")
97% of evangelicals say that believing in astrology is incompatible with being a Christian: > **[Evangelical Beliefs and Practices](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2011/06/22/global-survey-beliefs/)** > > Who are evangelical Christians? What do they believe? And what do they see as the boundaries of their faith? The survey contains several questions that ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/4 "2018-05-07T03:32:21Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I was just flipping channels and came across a televangelist named Paul Begley. I had never heard of him, so I looked him up on Wikipedia. He gets a mention in the article on the “[Nibiru cataclysm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_cataclysm#2017_revival),” which I also had never heard of; the article identifies him as a “YouTube conspiracy theorist and pastor at the Community Gospel Baptist Church in Knox, Indiana.” From what I see in that article, the kind of thing that Begley would have been talking about is not just garden-variety astrology, but a peculiar form of nutty conspiracy theory. I know of no mainstream branch of Christianity that endorses either this stuff or any other form of astrology, though it doesn’t surprise me that certain individuals might buy into it. From the Wikipedia article: > [@](#): > > In 2017, a conspiracy theorist and self-proclaimed “Christian numerologist” named David Meade revived the Nibiru cataclysm by tying it to various passages from the Bible. … Meade also faced criticism from fellow Christians; Ed Stetzer, writing for _Christianity Today_, stated that “there is no such thing as a ‘Christian numerologist’”, and described Meade as “a made-up expert in a made-up field talking about a made-up event.” ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/5 "2018-05-07T03:43:46Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > 97% of evangelicals say that believing in astrology is incompatible with being a Christian: > > [Evangelical Beliefs and Practices | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewforum.org/2011/06/22/global-survey-beliefs/) I’d feel more confident about how to interpret that result if control groups had been given the same questions but with _astronomy_ or _horoscopes_ in place of _astrology_. Many in this ilk conflate the terms; they might have thought they were taking a stand against science, but would have embraced belief in “horoscopes.” > [@Passed by 36-30 vote](#): > > NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED, by the House of Representatives of the Eighty-fifth Legislature of the State of South Dakota, the Senate concurring therein, that the South Dakota Legislature urges that instruction in the public schools relating to global warming include the following: > (1) That global warming is a scientific theory rather than a proven fact; > (2) That there are a variety of … astrological … dynamics that can effect [sic] world weather phenomena and … ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/6 "2018-05-07T04:00:37Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > 97% of evangelicals say that believing in astrology is incompatible with being a Christian: > > [Evangelical Beliefs and Practices | Pew Research Center](http://www.pewforum.org/2011/06/22/global-survey-beliefs/) If I’m interpreting the linked article correctly, it was describing a survey of Evangelical _leaders_, specifically “participants in the Third Lausanne Congress of World Evangelization,” whatever that is. In that case, I’m fairly inclined to trust that they know the difference between astrology and astronomy. But the numbers might well be different if they had surveyed random evangelical laypeople. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/7 "2018-05-07T04:58:37Z")
You’re right. I misread that article as referring to all evangelicals, whereas it actually refers to evangelical leaders. The leaders are people who’ve seriously studied the doctrines that they are advocating. What most evangelicals believe is harder to say because they often don’t even know much about evangelical Christian doctrines. A lot of people in the U.S. at least call themselves evangelical Christians despite the fact that they seldom go to church. Some don’t go to church at all anymore. Some go to church regularly but don’t make any attempt to understand what’s said in sermons. So it’s certainly possible that there are a fair amount of people who call themselves evangelicals but who also at least vaguely believe in astrology. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/8 "2018-05-07T05:36:51Z")
There is a subset of fundamentalists that end up grasping at anything that can be twisted to support their particular worldview. The first sermon I heard at one church I attended was by a particularly fundamentalist member, who ended up trying to invoke Velikovsky’s _Worlds in Collision_ to link in to the book of Joshua (the sun standing still). I’m pretty sure the christian _Nibiru theorists_ are mining from the same seam of woo (with the realization that they cannot pull Mars and Venus into their cosmological disruption), and tossing anything else they can find - even it it includes astrological terminology from a practice that they also profoundly reject as a form of divination. I did stay at that church for many years, as the vicar and the majority of the congregation were my sort of generally liberal charismatic anglicans, and I called out the fundamentalists (there were a few) on their creationism as often as they let me debate them. In the end, we mostly stayed friends. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/9 "2018-05-07T07:33:23Z")
Don’t discount the biblical aspect; if anything is even hinted at in the Bible, fundamentalists feel duty bound to pretend they believe it, no matter what, even if it directly contradicts something on the previous page. ---
**Author:** ![Arkcon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@Arkcon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arkcon)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/10 "2018-05-07T10:41:50Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Don’t discount the biblical aspect; if anything is even hinted at in the Bible, fundamentalists feel duty bound to pretend they believe it, no matter what, even if it directly contradicts something on the previous page. Remember this – The Three Kings who followed the star are also astrologers. It was the definition, (at the time, and for a while afterward,) of a smart™ person – someone who could read charts, do math, and were part of the cabal of the learned people. Surely they know _something_ and if you don’t, you can’t do much worse than follow their lead. So obviously, Christ is the Messiah. I mean really, how much more obvious does God have to make it for you? :rolleyes: As was said, keep hitting people with random evidence until something sticks is the game plan. Hey listen, consider astrologers in the newspaper. Those people are \*syndicated \* and they’re _writer_s, for a respected paper. Who’s qualified to give you their opinion: them, or some guy who posts online, and doesn’t even own his own blog? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/11 "2018-05-07T12:30:50Z")
> [@Arkcon](#): > > Remember this – The Three Kings who followed the star are also astrologers. According to who? ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/12 "2018-05-07T13:34:26Z")
> [@Matthew 2:1-2](#): > > After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem and asked, “Where is the one who has been born king of the Jews? We saw his star when it rose and have come to worship him.” “Magi” meant “magician” or general dabbler in the occult. The reference to seeing the star rising tends to establish them as astrologers. The Gospel doesn’t give their number, but the idea that there were three of them comes from the three gifts of gold, frankincense, and myrrh. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/13 "2018-05-07T15:04:55Z")
> [@Wallaby](#): > > Man who believes in one form of ancient mystical mumbo-jumbo, believes in another. Who would have guessed? > > Basically, religious fundies will grab onto anything that could be twisted to back up their beliefs. If Mickey Mouse said ‘Remember when there was all that water lying around?’, they’d grab that as confirmation of Noah’s flood. > [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Don’t discount the biblical aspect; if anything is even hinted at in the Bible, fundamentalists feel duty bound to pretend they believe it, no matter what, even if it directly contradicts something on the previous page. > [@Arkcon](#): > > So obviously, Christ is the Messiah. I mean really, how much more obvious does God have to make it for you? :rolleyes: > > As was said, keep hitting people with random evidence until something sticks is the game plan. **Moderator Note** Let’s keep religious jabs out of General Questions. Stick to the question in the OP. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/14 "2018-05-07T20:32:31Z")
[Here](https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Astrology)’s a list of “38” Biblical references to astrology. It’s very slim pickings. A lot of them don’t refer to astrology at all. And almost all of those that do give it in a negative context. One “bigger picture” about Judeo-Christian beliefs and astrology that some support are the many references suggesting a Biblical tie-in to [astrological ages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_age). The ones of note: Age of Taurus c4000-2000 BC. The Bull. Age of Aries c2000-1 BC. The Ram. Age of Pisces c 1AD-2000 AD. The Fish. Age of Aquarius c2000-4000AD. The Water Carrier. The Bible views Bull/Calf worship negatively. Note esp. the episode with the Golden Calf, Aaron, etc. It seems to be considered an old, out-dated belief that needed to be exterminated during the 2nd millennium BC. Lots of metaphorical references to sheep/lambs/etc. Esp. once Jesus shows up. The death of Jesus as the metaphorical death of the Age of the Ram is quite noticeable. The first era of Christianity contains many, many references to fish. “Fisher of men.” down to the Jesus Fish. But you really have to stretch things to find references in the Bible to Jesus returning (?) as a water carrier, etc. I think the Biblical writers were well aware of astrological beliefs but didn’t view it as something one should “practice”. Using some things as symbolism might be okay, but don’t go divining anything. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/15 "2018-05-08T00:09:54Z")
The Bible also recognizes other forms of divination as being possible but inappropriate: Remember the tale of the Witch of Endor, for instance. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/16 "2018-05-08T15:14:57Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > The Bible also recognizes other forms of divination as being possible but inappropriate: Remember the tale of the Witch of Endor, for instance. OTOH, there were the [Urim and Thummim](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urim_and_Thummim). It does seem odd to most people today how the Biblical people managed to say A is okay but B is bad when to us A and B are basically the same thing. Modern categorical thinking just wasn’t their thing, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/televangelists-and-astrology/813729/17 "2018-05-08T15:56:29Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > OTOH, there were the [Urim and Thummim](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urim_and_Thummim). > > It does seem odd to most people today how the Biblical people managed to say A is okay but B is bad when to us A and B are basically the same thing. Modern categorical thinking just wasn’t their thing, apparently. Well, yeah. Having God give you advice is good, while having evil spirits give you advice is bad. There’s no logical issue with that.