# Television Tax/Fee/whatever it's called in Britain **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158 "2020-03-09T18:34:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/1 "2020-03-09T18:34:53Z")
I’ve seen passing mentions over the years of a television tax/fee/something of the sort in Britain, but they always assume the reader OF COURSE knows what’s going on and don’t bother to explain. So enlighten this ignorant Yank, please? How much money are we talking about? Is it a one time thing? So much added to the price when you buy a new television? Or an annual thing? How do they know who even has a tv at all? Are they registered? Do you have to prove it if your television is broken and you throw it out? Does it vary, like, you pay X pounds per adult and Y pounds for children under 18? Or maybe you pay per set? X pounds for the first tv, plus Y for each additional one in the household? Or maybe by size/type/quality? As in, the latest ritzy giant flat screen TV costs one amount, a crappy B&W tube set from the 50s with hinky horizontal hold costs way, way less? What about a hotel – would they pay a fee times how many rooms (or televisions) they have? Does the fee only apply to ‘real’ televisions? What if you only watch on your computer or cell phone or something? What about DVDs or such? What if you only watch your own family video tapes? Do you have dirty rotten TV scofflaws out there, secretly watching illicit TVs in rooms with blackout shades drawn? What happens if you don’t pay? Do the TV police (shades of WKRP) show up and confiscate them? Bust them up with axes? Can you go to prison over it?? Just curious. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/2 "2020-03-09T18:58:04Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > I’ve seen passing mentions over the years of a television tax/fee/something of the sort in Britain, but they always assume the reader OF COURSE knows what’s going on and don’t bother to explain. So enlighten this ignorant Yank, please? My pleasure! How much money are we talking about? **£147 / year at present.** Is it a one time thing? So much added to the price when you buy a new television? Or an annual thing? **Annual.** How do they know who even has a tv at all? Are they registered? Do you have to prove it if your television is broken and you throw it out? **‘They’ have TV detector vans.** Does it vary, like, you pay X pounds per adult and Y pounds for children under 18? **One per household.** Or maybe you pay per set? X pounds for the first tv, plus Y for each additional one in the household? **There are arrangements for hotels etc (with multiple TVs)** Or maybe by size/type/quality? As in, the latest ritzy giant flat screen TV costs one amount, a crappy B&W tube set from the 50s with hinky horizontal hold costs way, way less? **One per household.** What about a hotel – would they pay a fee times how many rooms (or televisions) they have? **There are arrangements for hotels etc (with multiple TVs)** Does the fee only apply to ‘real’ televisions? What if you only watch on your computer or cell phone or something? **I can watch BBC iPlayer (catch-up TV) on my computer. They ask if I have a licence.** What about DVDs or such? **Not needed if you watch on a computer (I think.)** What if you only watch your own family video tapes? **Not needed if you watch on a computer (I think.)** Do you have dirty rotten TV scofflaws out there, secretly watching illicit TVs in rooms with blackout shades drawn? **Sure. But the detector vans get them. 😃** What happens if you don’t pay? Do the TV police (shades of WKRP) show up and confiscate them? Bust them up with axes? \*\*I think you get fined for a first offence. \*\* Can you go to prison over it?? **I expect repeat offenders would.** ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/3 "2020-03-09T19:00:00Z")
> [@glee](#): > > Can you go to prison over it?? > **I expect repeat offenders would.** Do they get TV privileges in prison? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/4 "2020-03-09T19:07:08Z")
And the “TV detector vans” are largely a bluff. It is possible to detect an radio receiver in the appropriate frequency band, but not really very practical. But in addition to a small number of genuine TV detector vans (which look like any other work vehicle), they have a larger number of vans with a bunch of fancy-looking equipment on the roof, to scare people into voluntary compliance. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/5 "2020-03-09T19:09:55Z")
> [@glee](#): > > My pleasure! > > How much money are we talking about? > **£147 / year at present.** > > Is it a one time thing? So much added to the price when you buy a new television? Or an annual thing? > **Annual.** > > How do they know who even has a tv at all? Are they registered? Do you have to prove it if your television is broken and you throw it out? > **‘They’ have TV detector vans.** The Wikipedia article on this subject claims _“Since April 2019, the annual cost is £154.50 ($195) for a colour licence and £52 ($65) for a black and white licence.”_ There’s an entire section on that article regarding enforcement, and vans seem like a small part of it. OP, that’s a lot of FAQ type questions for GQ. You might be better off reading the Wiki article for yourself. > **[Television licensing in the United Kingdom | TV detector vans](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licensing_in_the_United_Kingdom#TV_detector_vans)** > > TV detector vans have in the past featured heavily in TV Licensing publicity, highlighting that technology capable of detecting signals from operating TV sets could be employed. Detector vans date from the 1950s, when the Post Office converted Hillman Minx and Morris Oxford estate cars, which had large aerials attached to their roofs.\[citation needed\] Subsequently Commers were introduced. In the 1980s, vans were supplied by Dodge and Leyland. In the 1990s, Ford Transits were introduced. Few techn... ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/6 "2020-03-09T19:16:08Z")
How can these detector vans tell the difference between a TV and large computer monitor? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/7 "2020-03-09T19:26:42Z")
The detector van thing has always been a bit overblown, I think. Nowadays it’s really much simpler: a list of households and a list of which households have a TV licence, with the operating assumption being that the two lists should be the same. It’s not ideal. ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/8 "2020-03-09T19:34:50Z")
There’s a [wiki page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV_detector_van), of course. > [@](#): > > In 2013, the Radio Times obtained a leaked internal document from the BBC giving a breakdown of prosecutions for TV licence evasion.[10] The 18-page document gave a breakdown of the number of people evading the charge, as well as mentioning the number of people employed to catch those who do not pay their television licence.[11] However, no mention was made of TV detector vans being used to catch such people, prompting media speculation over the truth of their existence. In response a BBC spokeswoman rejected claims that the vans are a hoax: “Detector vans are an important part of our enforcement of the licence fee. We don’t go into detail about how many there are or how they work as this information might be useful to people trying to evade the fee.”[10] Never seen one. j ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/9 "2020-03-09T19:48:29Z")
PS: nobody asked what the licence fee pays for, but I’ll answer that question anyway: [https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/what-does-your-licence-fee-pay-for-top13](https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one/topics/what-does-your-licence-fee-pay-for-top13) j ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/10 "2020-03-09T19:51:39Z")
I have heard that the Ministry of Housinge has cat detector vans… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/11 "2020-03-09T19:52:13Z")
[Everything I know about the subject, I learned from The Young Ones.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdHHLzxr-Kg) ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/12 "2020-03-09T19:53:56Z")
Traditional TV and radio receivers go thru a process where the original frequency of the signal is converted into an intermediate (fixed) frequency (IF). Since this IF is running along wires in the set, it is effectively being broadcast. Not all that strongly but it can be picked up. Using a sensitive directional antenna and the right equipment they can locate the origin of the signal (and even find out what you’re watching). Note that during WWII, there was a ton of restrictions on people using their own radios on ships. A wolfpack could home in on a convoy if some joker was listening to a radio he snuck aboard. The transformer from a CRT TV would also put out a rather distinct signal. With things going digital and LCD, it gets more complicated … and a lot harder to do. The IF stuff happens inside chips (minuscule wiring) and at lower voltages. I wouldn’t waste my time trying to track that stuff down. There are other signal leaks that could be spotted at the distance of a van roaming the street. But those are pretty much indistinguishable from computer screen signals and such. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/13 "2020-03-09T20:01:29Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > I have heard that the Ministry of Housinge has cat detector vans… [I’ve never seen so many bleeding aerials.](https://cl.ly/bb20b9b3f240) ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/14 "2020-03-09T20:03:45Z")
There are [multiple countries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Television_licence) with a TV tax. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/15 "2020-03-09T20:11:27Z")
It used to be enforced by the government but the government switched responsibility to the BBC in the early/mid 90s, which was a sneaky move and one which the BBC fought tooth and nail to stop - with mass resignations in the board and ultimately the Director General in protest. It made the BBC the tax man which is not ideal for an institution which is supposed to be independent of government. Then, more recently, the government funded free licence fees to everybody over the age of 75 but sneakily put a time limit on it. So they effectively created a bit of a time bomb in which the BBC would either have to take responsibility for withdrawing the free licence fees to the elderly or take a massive hit to its income. The BBC were a bit meek in accepting this, they should have pushed back more strongly in my opinion as this made them responsible for tax policy. This process of erosion is what will ultimately kill the BBC and I don’t think many people will appreciate what they have had until it’s gone. However it’s also fair to say that the licence fee is an outdated concept in a landscape of unprecedented choice. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/16 "2020-03-09T20:14:31Z")
I assume the main reason is state-run/public broadcasting networks like the BBC? ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/17 "2020-03-09T20:21:04Z")
To add to what others have said. > [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > I’Is it a one time thing? So much added to the price when you buy a new television? Or an annual thing? do they know who even has a tv at all? Are they registered? Do you have to prove it if your television is broken and you throw it out? You will normally be asked your details if you buy a TV so they can check if you have a licence. > [@](#): > > Does it vary, like, you pay X pounds per adult and Y pounds for children under 18? > > Or maybe you pay per set? X pounds for the first tv, plus Y for each additional one in the household? > > Or maybe by size/type/quality? As in, the latest ritzy giant flat screen TV costs one amount, a crappy B&W tube set from the 50s with hinky horizontal hold costs way, way less? I don’t think an old black and white set from the 50s would work any more, now the broadcast is all digital. If it can’t receive TV signals, it’s not a TV, for licencing purposes. A computer tuner card is a TV, however. > [@](#): > > Does the fee only apply to ‘real’ televisions? What if you only watch on your computer or cell phone or something? Watching live TV broadcasts, or recording same, would require a TV licence. > [@](#): > > What about DVDs or such? > > What if you only watch your own family video tapes? You’ll want to make sure your TV can’t receive TV signals. > [@](#): > > Do you have dirty rotten TV scofflaws out there, secretly watching illicit TVs in rooms with blackout shades drawn? > > What happens if you don’t pay? Do the TV police (shades of WKRP) show up and confiscate them? Bust them up with axes? > > Can you go to prison over it?? > > Just curious. You can be summonsed to court and fined 1000 pounds. I suppose you could go to prison for contempt if you refuse to pay. I’m sure I’ve seen prosecutions in the local paper. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/18 "2020-03-09T20:36:29Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > I don’t think an old black and white set from the 50s would work any more, now the broadcast is all digital. If it can’t receive TV signals, it’s not a TV, for licencing purposes. A computer tuner card is a TV, however. There’s about 7000 households still on a B&W licence! [https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/cs/media-centre/news/view.app?id=1369785628266](https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/cs/media-centre/news/view.app?id=1369785628266) A 1950s set wouldn’t work I don’t think, but a 60s/70s 625-line PAL set would. Just plug a freeview box in, and use the aerial connector into the telly? ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/19 "2020-03-09T20:36:38Z")
> [@StarvingButStrong](#): > > How do they know who even has a tv at all? They don’t unless you tell them, or if you invite the TV licence people into your home when they come calling and they happen to notice a TV. My memory is fuzzy, but I think they are also allowed to do line-of-sight inspections from the public right-of-way. (That is, if your TV is clearly visible through your window from the sidewalk, then they can make a note of that and use that as evidence that you are fraudulently avoiding registration.) > [@](#): > > Do you have to prove it if your television is broken and you throw it out? No, if you don’t watch TV because you never turn it on, or because it’s permanently broken, or because you’ve thrown it out, then you don’t need to register for the TV licence, and if you are already registered, they are supposed to take your word for it (though they may pester you with letters and visits until you tell them to stop). I lived in London for about six years in a shared house where nobody watched TV. (I think there may have been one somewhere in the house, maybe in the storage room under the stairs, but nobody ever bothered hauling it out, plugging it in, and turning it on to see if it worked.) The TV licence people bothered us for years with letters demanding that we register (which we always marked “RETURN TO SENDER)” and with visits from their staff (to whom we never opened the door). Eventually we got annoyed enough that we wrote to them demanding that they stop this harassment and withdrawing their representatives’ implied right of access to our doorstep. They very quickly wrote an apology and promised not to contact us again. (Note that my information is about 9 years out of date at this point, so it’s possible the rules have since changed. They certainly did in Germany while we were living there—it used to be that you had to pay a TV licence only if you had a TV or a TV card in your computer, and they changed the regulation so that _all_ households have to pay.) ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2020, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/20 "2020-03-09T20:54:25Z")
> [@glee](#): > > My pleasure! Very kind of you! > [@](#): > > **£147 / year at present.** Hmm. Not so little as to be unnoticeable, not enough for most people to be bothered launching protests against. Threading the needle. Added later: Other responses have made it clear this is about broadcast tv. I presume you also have the option of cable, and that would be paid for separately, based on contracting with some company? Note: I’m not claiming the American system is any better. Between cable fees, subscriptions to streaming sites, voluntary donations to PBS and whatall it’s probably at least as expensive. Not even considering the 13 minutes of commercials they force into each hour… > [@](#): > > **‘They’ have TV detector vans.** Really? That surprises me. I don’t know why, exactly, but when I think of law enforcement types running surveillance out of vans, I’m thinking of crimes on the level of drug dealing and counterfeiting and kidnapping, not someone cheating on a pretty minor tax. > [@](#): > > **I can watch BBC iPlayer (catch-up TV) on my computer. They ask if I have a licence.** And just take your word, er, check mark for it? Or do you have to type in your license number or something? Though I guess you could pass those around/share with friends the way some horrible people (Not ME!:p) do with Netflix or Slingbox and so forth. > [@](#): > > **Sure. But the detector vans get them. 😃** Okaaaaay. :dubious: [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158.md?page=2)