# Television Tax/Fee/whatever it's called in Britain **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 9, 2020, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158 "2020-03-09T18:34:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/61 "2020-03-12T15:35:33Z")
> [@Ashtura](#): > > Just to piggyback off this topic, who funds BBC America? And is it as mitigated from bias as the BBC? BBC America is jointly owned by AMC and BBC (with the magic split proportion of 51.1/49.9%). So AMC is basically in charge but if it did something the Beeb didn’t like, they’d likely start losing programming and have other issues. It does air BBC World News, so that segment at least is fairly high quality. The channel is funded by ads and cable company rights fees. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/62 "2020-03-12T17:17:09Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > BBC America is jointly owned by AMC and BBC (with the magic split proportion of 51.1/49.9%). That must indeed be some magic mathematics given that it adds up to 101%. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/63 "2020-03-12T17:23:35Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > That must indeed be some magic mathematics given that it adds up to 101%. 😃 Typo! It was supposed to add up to 99%. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/64 "2020-03-12T21:30:41Z")
The people who get prosecuted for TV license evasion are seldom mavericks keen on testing the limits of state power. The reality is rather sad. They are often mothers at home looking after the children who are poor, maybe living on welfare. Imagine the scene: the kids are watching Childrens BBC and then suddenly the TV licensing people knock on the door and ask their mother two questions: Do you have a TV? Do you have a license? If the answer is Yes and No they write it on their clip board and go away. Then a few weeks later a Court Summons will be delivered charging them with license evasion. If they ignore it, they will get a fine of about £200 or so for a first offence. If they don’t pay the fine the court has the power to jail them. This happened to a friend of mine some years ago and he decided to have his day in court and explain the family circumstances before the magistrates. He went to a court house and asked the clerk. The clerk looked at him as if he was mad. Then simply said ‘Name?’ and then rummaged through a big stack of Court papers intended for the attention of the Magistrate until he found the one with my friends name on it. It held it up between his two fingers and then dropped it into the waste paper bin and smiled and said “Good day!” and that was that. He said it reminded him of a Monty Python sketch. The way it seemed to work is that the magistrate just goes through the pile of papers stamping each one with a verdict and standard fine. In the past the local newspapers would regularly list all the miscreants who had been fined in this way. Harassment by bombarding people with letters written in intimidating language is obviously the most cost effective means of intimidating people into paying the license fee. Then comes the ‘detectives’ who knock on doors and ask the two questions. At the same time all the TV ads and propaganda about detectors vans stalking the streets with their ever so sophisticated technology to reinforce the message that there in no escape. They also now require you to log into BBC iPlayer and I expect they try to harass you by email suggesting they know you are watching via streaming so pay up. Sure the BBC has some good quality TV and has editorial independence from the politicians. But it comes at the cost of collecting a tax that is regressive, penalising the poorest people in the community. Eventually this will have to change. Sadly, there does not seem to be a model out there that reconciles the need for a revenue stream for public broadcasting yet keeps the politicians off its back. We are stuck with this antiquated and oppressive licensing system that amounts to BBC’s dirty laundry. The BBC gets £3.7 billion from the UK license payers out of £4.89 billion of total income. I do wonder if it could be totally self financing if it tried harder to sell a streaming service around the world. I guess the Britbox service is a step in that direction. Though it would not be simple, as this article explains. [https://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/index.php/topic,17669.0.html](https://www.tvlicenceresistance.info/forum/index.php/topic,17669.0.html) ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2020, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/65 "2020-03-12T22:32:18Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > The people who get prosecuted for TV license evasion are seldom mavericks keen on testing the limits of state power. > > The reality is rather sad. They are often mothers at home looking after the children who are poor, maybe living on welfare. Imagine the scene: the kids are watching Childrens BBC and then suddenly the TV licensing people knock on the door and ask their mother two questions: Do you have a TV? Do you have a license? If the answer is Yes and No they write it on their clip board and go away. Then a few weeks later a Court Summons will be delivered charging them with license evasion. If they ignore it, they will get a fine of about £200 or so for a first offence. If they don’t pay the fine the court has the power to jail them. > > [snip] The TV licence fee in Germany (about € 17 per month) pertains to every household, not regarding if it has a TV set, radio or computer (thus having made the spying measures superfluous that had been applied formerly similar like in Britain). But if you are on welfare, you are exempt from the licence, so something like that wouldn’t happen here. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/66 "2020-03-13T08:21:10Z")
If the TV Licensing Fee in Germany is assessed to _every_ household whether it has a TV or not, then in what sense is it a TV Licensing fee? Sounds to me like it’s a one-size-fits-all _household_ tax on every household just for being a household. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/67 "2020-03-13T08:22:28Z")
How widely known is the abbreviation “TV” or the word “teevee” on the east side of the Pond? How widely used is it? ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 9:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/68 "2020-03-13T09:09:04Z")
Clicking randomly around Google translate, it looks as if most countries (all that I saw) use a description that sounds very much like ‘television’ (usually abbreviated to the local language equivalent of ‘TV’) or, simply, ‘TV’ in whatever script they use. I would say the Tee Vee is universally understood. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 9:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/69 "2020-03-13T09:14:48Z")
The only one that doesn’t, to my knowledge, is German, where the term “Fernsehen” (=“distant viewing”) was adopted. Same meaning, but it was just at the time when foreign loanwords were considered unpatriotic, shall we say. (FWIW, a number of pedants did point out that “Tele” is Greek and “vision” is Latin, so they shouldn’t be combined in one word, but the boat had already sailed). ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/70 "2020-03-13T09:34:18Z")
> [@Senegoid](#): > > If the TV Licensing Fee in Germany is assessed to _every_ household whether it has a TV or not, then in what sense is it a TV Licensing fee? Sounds to me like it’s a one-size-fits-all _household_ tax on every household just for being a household. See my [post #22](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=22180001&postcount=22). Many people in Germany agree with you, but when they tried to take this matter to the courts (to either force the government to admit it was an involuntary across-the-board tax, or else to force the government to confirm that it is a licence fee payable only by those who possess equipment capable of receiving broadcasts) the case got thrown out. ---
**Author:** ![filmstar-en](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/50afbb/32.png) [@filmstar-en](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmstar-en)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/71 "2020-03-13T12:42:33Z")
TV is a bit long to say, so in the UK you often hear people refer to it is the ‘Telly’ in casual conversation. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/72 "2020-03-13T13:28:21Z")
Also, some horrifying creatures run around with them in their abdomens. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/73 "2020-03-13T15:10:00Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > Also, some horrifying creatures run around with them in their abdomens. While carrying a purple handbag, what’s more. Still, that’s public service broadcasting for you. The Murdochs of this world pursue other fantasies. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [March 13, 2020, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/74 "2020-03-13T17:28:12Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > The only one that doesn’t, to my knowledge, is German, where the term “Fernsehen” (=“distant viewing”) was adopted. Same meaning, but it was just at the time when foreign loanwords were considered unpatriotic, shall we say. > > (FWIW, a number of pedants did point out that “Tele” is Greek and “vision” is Latin, so they shouldn’t be combined in one word, but the boat had already sailed). Yes, Fernsehen (the medium) and Fernseher (TV set) are the original German terms, but we have adopted the shorter TV also like so many other words from English. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Brother\_1](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_brother_1/32/3513_2.png) [@Little\_Brother\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Brother_1)\ **Post date:** [March 14, 2020, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/75 "2020-03-14T17:49:22Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > The operative word here is “let”. You don’t have to let the TV licence folk into your house unless they have a warrant issued by a magistrate. And they’re not going to go to the trouble of getting a warrant without first having positive evidence that you’re watching TV without a licence. If they were to go to a magistrate with nothing more than, “This guy isn’t registered in our database, so pretty please let us force our way into his home to see if he has a TV that is plugged into the aerial,” they’d get laughed out of court. I hope it isn’t unacceptably off-topic to opine “Unless ‘this guy’ is Julian Assange.” 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/76 "2020-03-15T21:50:06Z")
By coincidence, I was watching one of those great videos from Mr. Carlson’s Lab on YouTube today. He does old electronic restoration and such. In the one I was watching about fixing up an RF pre-amp, he [mentions](https://youtu.be/Ob-nkNTrvcc?t=180) the license fee the government had during WWII and how one of these could help avoid being detected by tracking vans since the IF signal was further removed from the antenna. There was a radio receiver license fee in the US during WWII? Nope, checking it turns out he’s Canadian. Hard to find more info using the obvious keywords since there’s broadcaster licenses, etc. But I did find an [article](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/radio-and-television-broadcasting) mentioning fees in the 1930s. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/77 "2020-03-15T22:07:43Z")
The TV licence was a natural outgrowth of the wireless licence, which was granted you by the Postmaster General and which anybody who operated a wireless powered by mains electricity had to buy (many people had ones powered by wet batteries, which you took down to the radio shop to be recharged). This is one well-remembered public information film [BBC TV Licensing™ 1977 Propaganda - They're Watching Columbo!! - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1WcnPLSMAM) The wireless licence was abandoned in 1971, probably because the advent of cheap portable transistor receivers made it unenforceable. ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Mood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac91a4/32.png) [@Blue\_Mood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Mood)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/78 "2020-03-16T15:36:17Z")
I legally own two televisions without having a TV Licence. Anyone who watches, records, or streams any programme as it is being shown must have one. This is not limited to television - if you watch it live via your computer you must have a licence as must anyone who uses BBC iPlayer (including catchup). My televisions are used for DVDs, xBox, YouTube (nothing live), Netflix, and Amazon Prime. I get a form every year or two asking me to verify that I am still not in need of a licence, which I diligently fill in. Nobody has ever come to check. [https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one](https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/check-if-you-need-one) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/79 "2020-03-16T17:10:18Z")
> [@filmstar-en](#): > > Sure the BBC has some good quality TV and has editorial independence from the politicians. But it comes at the cost of collecting a tax that is regressive, penalising the poorest people in the community. It’s not regressive. If anything, it’s just not progressive, though presumably “the poorest people in the community” are least likely to have TVs. > [@Saturn\_Dreams](#): > > We have the same thing in Japan called the Signal Reception Fee. If your device can capture broadcast waves, you have to pay a fee. So not only regular tvs, but computers, car navigation systems and smartphones are covered. Interestingly, since iPhones don’t have a built in tuner they are exempt from the fee. > > The money goes towards paying for Japan’s national broadcaster whether you watch/want it or not. It’s huge racket if you ask me. I’m not sure whether the same is true of NHK, but the BBC’s licensing fees are are certainly not a racket. Whether you want/watch it or not, an independent broadcasting service which provides public-interest programming rather than just profit-focused programming is A Good Thing. In any case, public funding for the arts is pretty much ubiquitous worldwide. If you get rid of TV license fees, you’ll have to get rid of museum grants, tax breaks for film production, publicly-funded sports stadiums, _ad nauseam_. ---
**Author:** ![whitetho](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whitetho/32/1059_2.png) [@whitetho](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whitetho)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2020, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158/80 "2020-03-16T18:16:20Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > There was a radio receiver license fee in the US during WWII? Nope, checking it turns out he’s Canadian. Hard to find more info using the obvious keywords since there’s broadcaster licenses, etc. But I did find an [article](https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/radio-and-television-broadcasting) mentioning fees in the 1930s. I did some research on this topic recently when I updated Wikipedia’s [History of broadcasting in Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_broadcasting_in_Canada) page. After the lifting of the restrictions on civilian radio after the end of World War One, initially private citizens operating radio equipment, even if it was just for receiving and not transmitting, had to be fully licenced as an amateur radio operator. In 1922 the federal government introduced the Private Receiving Station licence for individuals interested in receiving radio broadcasts, which had to be renewed annually at a fee of $1 per year. The licence fee eventually rose to $2.50 per year to provide revenue for both radio and television broadcasts by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. It was eliminated effective April 1, 1953. (In contrast, the U.S. has never had any licences or fees for radio or TV reception). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/television-tax-fee-whatever-its-called-in-britain/849158.md?page=5)