# Tell me about engines (cc, hp, etc) **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 14, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326 "2014-10-14T18:45:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![GreasyJack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/df705f/32.png) [@GreasyJack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreasyJack)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/21 "2014-10-15T07:16:57Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Actually, this part I knew. Wanna know how I first learned that? When I was shopping for my Impala - 2011 bought used because I’m cheap - I saw several everyday cars rated at 250-300 hp. And in the pilot for “Adam-12” Malloy lectures Reed about the awesomeness of their patrol car and says it pulls 325hp. So I figure things have gotten exceedingly better, automotive technology-wise. It’s even worse than you think since back then the horsepower numbers were pretty shamelessly inflated. Those 200-300 hp family sedans these days are undoubtedly cranking out more power than the big-block powered police car that Chrylser claimed made 325 back in the 60’s. That was actually part of what contributed to the mystique of the 60’s muscle cars. While the smog equipment that became mandatory after the Clean Air Act went into force in 1974 certainly did lead to a reduction in power, the perception of it was made much worse by the coincidental timing of the FTC cracking down on horsepower advertising around the same time. So, for example, in the late 60’s, GM advertised most variations of the 350 c.i. small block V8 as producing around 300 horsepower. In 1972, they switched to the mandated standardized SAE horsepower testing which only rated the exact same engine at around 200. After they added catalytic converters (and the requisite de-tuning) in 1974, that number dropped to around 165. Cars were definitely more powerful in the pre-smog days than in the early smog days, but the combination of nostalgia and old ad copy lead to the generally incorrect perception of cars from that era being huge speed demons. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/22 "2014-10-15T11:34:29Z")
Easy peazy. You buy the '68 mustang. You upgrade the brakes and suspension to more modern standards. Possibly make some modest engine mods (electronic ignition maybe?). Maybe help it breath better with updates to carb, air filter and exhaust. With better brakes you will probably need bigger wheels but keep those those modest - No hoopty 20" chromed ones with spinners! Maybe a fresh coat of paint but only if necessary. That can easily eat up $5,000 in parts alone. But you’ll be the envy of all your neighbours and certainly the envy of every car enthusiast on SDMB. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 11:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/23 "2014-10-15T11:55:12Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > In 2005, Formula 1 cars fitted with a 3-liter engine were making as much as 900 horsepower. The F1 engine revs about three times higher than my G37, and it’s fitted with a turbocharger, and it doesn’t have to comply with emissions or noise regulations. Trivial nitpick - F1 cars have turbos now, but they didn’t in 2005 - turbos were banned in the formula between 1989 and 2013. However, despite this you are quite right that some F1 cars in 2005 did indeed reach 900hp, thanks to the other factors you mention. Some turbos in the 1986 season allegedly produced up to 1,300hp in qualifying - from a 1.5l engine! Can’t add to the excellent technical information already in the thread but in terms of the latest post from the OP, I have to agree on the '68 Mustang. I know next to nothing about Americana from that era, but in my opinion the others are ugly whereas the Mustang is one of the most beautiful shapes of all time. YMMV, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/24 "2014-10-15T13:00:38Z")
> [@GreasyJack](#): > > It’s even worse than you think since back then the horsepower numbers were pretty shamelessly inflated. Those 200-300 hp family sedans these days are undoubtedly cranking out more power than the big-block powered police car that Chrylser claimed made 325 back in the 60’s. > > That was actually part of what contributed to the mystique of the 60’s muscle cars. While the smog equipment that became mandatory after the Clean Air Act went into force in 1974 certainly did lead to a reduction in power, the perception of it was made much worse by the coincidental timing of the FTC cracking down on horsepower advertising around the same time. So, for example, in the late 60’s, GM advertised most variations of the 350 c.i. small block V8 as producing around 300 horsepower. In 1972, they switched to the mandated standardized SAE horsepower testing which only rated the exact same engine at around 200. After they added catalytic converters (and the requisite de-tuning) in 1974, that number dropped to around 165. > > Cars were definitely more powerful in the pre-smog days than in the early smog days, but the combination of nostalgia and old ad copy lead to the generally incorrect perception of cars from that era being huge speed demons. [Another Ate Up With Motor gem, this one on gross vs. net horsepower.](http://ateupwithmotor.com/terms-technology-definitions/gross-versus-net-horsepower/) While there was horsepower inflation such that none of the numbers back then could really be considered legitimate, there were some genuinely hot motors back then that were actually underrated for insurance purposes. Keep in mind that during the muscle car era NASCAR required homologation, a certain number produced for public use, before the manufacturers were allowed to use it on the track. It wasn’t all mythology. ---
**Author:** ![Ximenean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/aca169/32.png) [@Ximenean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ximenean)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/25 "2014-10-15T13:27:42Z")
The way I look at it, if you want to know how “strong” an engine is, look at the area under the power curve across the rpm range that you are likely to use. Peak power in itself means little - it could be at 6000 rpm, an unlikely number in everyday driving. Look at the power across the more realistic 1500 - 4000 rpm range. That’ll tell you how powerful an engine feels. If you want a simpler metric, look at peak torque, and at what rpm it is achieved. This will be much earlier than peak power, because on the flat part of the torque curve the relationship to power is linear. High torque that is reached at low revs is good. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/26 "2014-10-15T14:12:37Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > This has always confused me. Backyard mech that I am. > > It would seem that torque and horsepower is simply power at different speeds. I’ve looked at the power curves on the engines that I have. The larger ones having more torque. And frankly, more mass and moving parts to get things going. Makes sense. no. Torque is a static force, it can’t do any work all by itself. You can apply a million lb.-ft. of torque to a shaft and it won’t budge if its sufficiently strong and restrained. a torque which causes the shaft to rotate has now done [“Work.”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_(physics)) “Power” is the rate at which that torque does “Work,” more precisely Power is the derivative of Work with respect to time. short version: torque is not power, power is not torque, but the two are so closely intertwined you can’t ignore either. > [@](#): > > Then, from what I have read here, a longer stroke and less bore allows the engine to have more horsepower? Easier on the engine to produce more power at higher RPM? Easier for the engine to change speed at higher RPM? > > I think I have it backwards. Longer stroke = more torque engines have to be designed holistically, you can’t generalize just one aspect. but yeah, let’s do that anyway. _all else equal,_ if you increase the stroke length you’re giving the piston/rod a longer lever-arm (the crankshaft throw) to act upon. However, that comes with a trade-off. The longer the crankshaft throw is (again, all else equal) the higher the peak piston speed is for a given RPM. In the real world high peak piston speeds are to be avoided, so the engine with the longer stroke is going to have a lower maximum rated RPM. I think it’s better to view it as “long-stroke engines can’t make high HP numbers” rather than “long-stroke engines have more torque.” ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/27 "2014-10-15T19:18:16Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > Higher compression ratio can increase the theoretical maximum efficiency of the engine, but the resultant higher peak pressures and temperatures will also produce greater tendency for detonation. This is when the mixure transitions from a “slow” flame front (a few tens of meters per second) to a supersonic flame front (a few thousands of meters per second). A transition to detonation near the end of a combustion event causes a light “pinging sound” from the engine, and isn’t a bad thing; indeed, it used to be regarded as “the sound of economy.” But heavy knock, occuring when the mixture transitions to detonation relatively early in the combustion event, can cause extremely high peak pressures and temperatures that erode the combustion chamber. > > A fuel with a higher octane number is better able to resist this transition to detonation, allowing the mixture to burn at the normal rate. Higher octane number does not mean the fuel has more or less energy, and does not mean that it burns faster or slower, than a fuel with a lower octane number. It’s strictly a measure of how well the fuel resists detonation. (post shortened) Thanks for the info. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2014, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/28 "2014-10-15T19:43:03Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > A typical “muscle car” from the mid-late 1960s is slower in every way and handles less well than a family wagon from 2014. To paraphrase the Top Gear guys somewhat, “how did they manage to squeeze so few horsepower into such a big engine?” ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/29 "2014-10-16T01:01:05Z")
> [@Finagle](#): > > To paraphrase the Top Gear guys somewhat, “how did they manage to squeeze so few horsepower into such a big engine?” I wish people would stop quoting _Top Gear_ as some sort of authority or citation. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/30 "2014-10-16T01:33:09Z")
Right, so it looks like the 68 Mustang is the one. I’ve been in touch with the owner. He’s not a mechanic or car guy, he inherited it recently and wants to move it. I’ll go test drive it in a week or so - it’s about 100 miles away - if I like it and it passes inspection he’ll deliver it. Oh, and I have the VIN to run it. Any suggestions where I can get that done cheap? I tried Carfax but it’s too old. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/31 "2014-10-16T02:15:11Z")
When you’re buying antique cars you’re getting them as-is. You’re paying for the privilege of owning a classic, not for a well-maintained used car, and the price reflects that. Unless you’re paying a “numbers matching” or collectible premium for a fully restored car you should assume that a) something has probably happened over the years, b) the car will not be reliable until you put time, money and parts into it, and c) it will be very rewarding for you if you learn how to do all the work yourself. I didn’t learn that until recently, but wrenching on cars is very satisfying. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/32 "2014-10-16T11:27:03Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > I wish people would stop quoting _Top Gear_ as some sort of authority or citation. I don’t necessarily disagree with the sentiment, but I don’t think it was posted as an authority or citation in this case - just a lighthearted comment. I found it amusing, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/33 "2014-10-16T11:49:11Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Right, so it looks like the 68 Mustang is the one. I’ve been in touch with the owner. He’s not a mechanic or car guy, he inherited it recently and wants to move it. I’ll go test drive it in a week or so - it’s about 100 miles away - if I like it and it passes inspection he’ll deliver it. > > Oh, and I have the VIN to run it. Any suggestions where I can get that done cheap? I tried Carfax but it’s too old. if this is the one you linked earlier, be aware that it might have four wheel drum brakes. I don’t see the “silver circle” on the brake pedal Ford used to denote a disc-equipped car back then. if you’ve never driven a vehicle with drums at all corners, it’ll behoove you to take the car to a place where you can do some practice stops to get familiar with how they act. Drum brakes have both the ability to lock up in an instant along with the willingness to fade away to nothing after a relatively short amount of use. oh, for the VIN: [http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/students/Blommel/](http://iml.jou.ufl.edu/projects/students/Blommel/) ---
**Author:** ![fstbk1968](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3bc359/32.png) [@fstbk1968](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fstbk1968)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/34 "2014-10-16T14:53:18Z")
As the owner of a 68 Mustang I advise you to visit a Mustang enthusiast forum. I belong to several, two that I highly recommend are [http://www.vintage-mustang.com/](http://www.vintage-mustang.com/) and [http://www.stangfix.com/index.php](http://www.stangfix.com/index.php). These cars are relatively simple and fairly easy to work on yourself if you have a basic understanding of cars & auto mechanics. That being said, all cars have their peculiarities; spend some time visiting these forums & ask questions. You will then be able to judge your potential purchase from much more informed perspective. Often times, fellow Mustangers will volunteer to go with you to check it out. Be aware of rust issues in the cowl area; they are very expensive & labor intensive to fix. By the way, don’t be scared off by 4-wheel drums; if properly adjusted & in good working order they will perform just fine in daily driving situations (disclaimer: driving through standing water will put a scare into you if you don’t ride the brakes a little to dry them off) ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2014, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/35 "2014-10-16T16:20:45Z")
Or buy the car, do a disk swap and immeasurably improve your stopping power. If you aren’t planning a Concours D’Elegance type resto you might as well benefit from a little modern tech. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/36 "2014-11-05T03:03:08Z")
I had the Mustang delivered Saturday. From the inspection I’ll want to get the carb rebuilt. It idles a bit rough but runs OK. I’m also planning the disk brake conversion. The drum brakes work fine but I’m uncomfortable with how they behave in comparison to my Impala’s brakes. The owner had a new water pump installed and electronic points. One fender was replaced due to a fender-bender at some point but the entire thing was repainted and looks sweet. I have driven it once after delivery for about 10-12 miles to get used to it. I received four light blinks, two waves from guys I don’t know in my neighborhood and the gear head and his high school-age son across the street REALLY want to get their hands on it. Oh, and it’s true what they say. A ladyfriend I’m very sweet on - who lives two states north - just invited me to road trip up to see her so she can take it for a spin. Life is good. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2014, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/37 "2014-11-05T13:01:29Z")
Awesome. Congrats. You’ll have a lot of fun. And just a few frustrations. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/38 "2014-11-06T17:21:37Z")
Yay, Congrats on the purchase! I’m a touch jealous as the 67-68s are my favourites. Pics? Also, let us know how the conversion goes and any mods you do along the way. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [November 6, 2014, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326/39 "2014-11-06T22:54:28Z")
OK, so I’m dropping it off tomorrow to get some things done. 1. Disc brake conversion 2. Rebuild the carb to contain that rough idle 3. Install a blue tooth stereo 4. Maybe install 3-point belts That last comes from a pal who says it’s just safer and I’ll have kids in this car. Guy who’s doing it wants about $2K for the whole project but he offered to keep the parts as partial payment. Is that worthwhile and what would they be worth? Any ideas? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-engines-cc-hp-etc/701326.md?page=1)