# Tell me about English accents **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 10, 2007, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487 "2007-06-10T19:07:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanub/32/132_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUB)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/61 "2007-06-11T21:46:15Z")
I appreciate \*\* acsenray\*\* and \*\* Hari Seldon\*\*'s comments and explanations. I am clearly unable to articulate my thoughts today. :smack: I’ll only add one more question to this hijack: When people (usually entertainers) work to lose their accent, what (or whom?) are they striving to sound like? ---
**Author:** ![GorillaMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/50afbb/32.png) [@GorillaMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GorillaMan)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/62 "2007-06-11T21:53:46Z")
[QUOTE=WOOKINPANUB] When people (usually entertainers) work to lose their accent, what (or whom?) are they striving to sound like? [/QUOTE] Is this specifically Brits, or in general? In the case of British actors, there’s the slightly-dismissive descriptions such as ‘RADA accent’ and ‘RSC accent’ for those who have acquired a generic upper-middle-class sound which doesn’t occur naturally in any part of the country or in any other walk of life. There was a time when stage schools would hammer all traces of regional accents out of students, but now there’s more recognition of the value of versatility - it does somebody no harm to retain their natural voice provided that they can mimic others accurately. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/63 "2007-06-11T22:06:16Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] I don’t know what “lateral” means in this context, but I’m having trouble thinking of a way to pronounce “lateral” where the two "l"s aren’t alike. [/QUOTE] It’s the difference between what’s known as the “clear l” (as in _leap, lead_) and “dark l” (as in _bell, bill, bull_). Here’s some detail: > **[Voiced dental and alveolar lateral approximants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velarized_alveolar_lateral_approximant)** > > Voiced dental and alveolar lateral approximants are a type of consonantal sound used in many spoken languages. It is familiar to English-speakers as the "l" sound in "lift". The symbol in the International Phonetic Alphabet that represents them is ⟨l⟩. As a sonorant, lateral approximants are nearly always voiced. Voiceless lateral approximants, /l̥/ are common in Sino-Tibetan languages, but uncommon elsewhere. In such cases, voicing typically starts about halfway through the hold of the consonant... > [@](#): > > In many dialects of English, including Received Pronunciation, the velarized lateral alveolar approximant occurs in syllable coda position, as in _bell_ and _milk_. In syllable onset position, however, the non-velarized or “plain” alveolar lateral approximant is found. In other words, the dark l is the l-sound used in \*bell \* and _milk_, as opposed to the clear l, which is the l-sound used in \*lad \* or _lip_. > > Some other dialects of English, such as Scottish English, use a velarized or dark l in all positions, while Hiberno-English (Irish English) uses clear l everywhere. Some English accents, such as Cockney, Estuary English, South Australian English, and, to a lesser extent, the African American Vernacular English use [w], or [o] instead of dark l’s, a process known as l-vocalization (so that \*bell \* becomes “beww” and \*milk \* becomes “miwk”). Similar changes are found in other languages, such as Serbian, as seen in the Serbian name \*Beograd \* of Belgrade. Russian and Polish are languages that have the “clear l” and “dark l” as distinct phonemes in their consonantal inventories, unlike English. Russian **лекарство** (_lekarstvo_, “medicine”) and **лампа** (_lampa_, “lamp”) begin with a “clear l” and a “dark l”, respectively. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 11, 2007, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/64 "2007-06-11T22:09:08Z")
[QUOTE=WOOKINPANUB] When people (usually entertainers) work to lose their accent, what (or whom?) are they striving to sound like? [/QUOTE] This varies a lot based on the specific _ad hoc_ needs of the entertainer. Georgia peach Andie McDowell worked to lose her Southern accent for _Greystoke_, while British actress Cate Blanchette strove to pick up a similar accent for _The Gift_. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/65 "2007-06-12T14:55:43Z")
[QUOTE=WOOKINPANUB] When people (usually entertainers) work to lose their accent, what (or whom?) are they striving to sound like? [/QUOTE] Just keep in mind, people might speaking of “losing” an accent, but what they’re really trying to do is obtain a different accent. Exactly which accent they obtain depends on whose speech they, individually, choose to model (It might be an accent coach) and depends on the demands of a specific job. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/66 "2007-06-12T14:57:15Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] I don’t know what “lateral” means in this context, but I’m having trouble thinking of a way to pronounce “lateral” where the two "l"s aren’t alike. [/QUOTE] If you’re a baseball fan, think about the way Pete Rose says “like.” It’s almost as if he’s swallowing the first “l.” It sounds distinctive, because most American accents reserve that sound for the end of a word and use the regular “l” sound for the beginning of a word. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/67 "2007-06-12T15:22:37Z")
I’ve been to the USA on 6 separate occasions and to be honest with you the only difference in accents I noticed was in those from the South, Alabama to be precise. A really nice soothing draaaaawl that went on forever. “By the 'eck lad” ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/68 "2007-06-12T17:10:31Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond] It’s the difference between what’s known as the “clear l” (as in _leap, lead_) and “dark l” (as in _bell, bill, bull_). Here’s some detail: [/QUOTE] I’m sorry. I tried my best to understand that Wikipedia article (I’m not a linguist), and I still don’t get it. I pronounce the “L” in all five of your sample words alike, and Wikipedia doesn’t seem to have any audio files to aid in understanding. I tried paying attention to my tongue as I said those words, and it seems to be in exactly the same place in my mouth. Do you know of a site that has sample audio where I could hear the difference? ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/69 "2007-06-12T17:19:31Z")
Hang on, **Wombat** … I’m looking for some sound samples. If you don’t produce the differences in your own speech, though, you may have difficulty distingishing them by ear. Consider, though, that you may well use the either the “clear l” or the “dark l” for pretty much every instance of “l”. It could be part of your accent 😃 ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/70 "2007-06-12T17:26:27Z")
OK, **Wombat** … try [this site](http://homepage.ntu.edu.tw/~karchung/intro%20page%2014.htm). There are sound samples of various types of “l’s”, and then at the very bottom, there are side-by-side pronunciations of the word “play” with a “clear l” and a “dark l”, to demonstrate the distinction. ---
**Author:** ![LinusK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/258eb7/32.png) [@LinusK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LinusK)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/71 "2007-06-12T18:21:29Z")
[QUOTE=InvisibleWombat] I lived in California for over 20 years, and then moved away in 2001. Two observations: 1. I never met anyone in that entire time in California who called it “Cali.” In fact, aside from twitspeakers (er, I mean “leetspeakers”), your post is the only place I’ve ever seen it. 2. These days, if you move to Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Utah, or a wide variety of other places, you _do not_ mention you’re from California. It’s poison. All day long I listen to people gripe about “those damned Californians driving our real estate prices up” and “those damned Californians thinking they’re better than us” and “the idiots from the land of fruits and nuts” and on and on and on. So _ahem_ I’m not from Cali. [/QUOTE] And Texas. Apparently every single person in Cali’s recently sold at least one house for $500,000 more than they paid for it, and now they’re intent on inflicting their insane real estate prices on the rest of us. Go Away! ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2007, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487/72 "2007-06-12T18:30:26Z")
[QUOTE=bordelond] Hang on, **Wombat** … I’m looking for some sound samples. If you don’t produce the differences in your own speech, though, you may have difficulty distingishing them by ear. Consider, though, that you may well use the either the “clear l” or the “dark l” for pretty much every instance of “l”. It could be part of your accent 😃 [/QUOTE] Take a listen to [this](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyqN7iZNyoU&mode=related&search=) interview with Pete Rose. Pete Rose uses the “dark” or “liquid” _l_ sound in almost every position. Listen to how he says “glad,” “Fort Lauderdale,” “Charlie Hustle,” “left,” “fly,” “plays,” “lot more,” etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-english-accents/407487.md?page=3)