Tell me about going carless

In My Humble Opinion
41

That’s not necessarily a con for everybody. I hate menu planning (I always end up wanting to eat something different than what I planned, anyway). And I hate, with the fire of a thousand suns, long trips to the grocery store where I have to go through every aisle. I find lots of short trips to the grocery store much less unpleasant and stressful than one long trip. So I like being able to walk to the grocery store and pick up a few things for tonight’s dinner.

I do use my car to go to the grocery store when I need to get heavy stuff (like 2-liter bottles of soda) or bulky stuff (like big packages of toilet paper) that would be hard to carry. I could use a granny cart or something with a bike (if I rode a bike) to do that if I wanted to, though.

And you might have to figure out an alternate route on your own. I suck at figuring out alternate routes, because I have no sense of direction, so I hate it when I have to do it.

I don’t understand this desire to be in control all the time. If you’re in control, you can screw up- if you’re not, it’s harder to screw up. The harder it is for me to screw things up, the happier I am. A fairly common bad dream for me is one where I’m in a car accident, and it’s my fault- I’m always glad to wake up from that one.

Traffic stopped ahead of me? I’m in for a long afternoon of inching forward, which is much more boring than even a bad book. Or I can try to find an alternate route and be in for a long afternoon of being lost and possibly still stuck in traffic.

If someone else offers to drive me somewhere, I almost never turn them down- I hate driving. And I don’t feel dependent.

A big pro of not driving everywhere- you don’t have to look for parking! If you walk, you don’t even have to worry about finding somewhere to chain up a bike.

Of course. I try to live in neighborhoods where I can live mostly car-free, though, since I hate driving and looking for parking. It can be done, and what’s more it’s usually easier to do in neighborhoods where jobs are easier to find… You don’t get a big house with a big yard in the suburbs out of it, but I don’t find that particularly desirable anyway. You don’t end up doing all your shopping at Super Wal-Mart or the equivalent, but that’s not something I want to do either.

42

I feel exactly the oposite. When I’m in control of what I want to do, things are less likely to get screwed up. I think the vast majority of folks feel that way.

I live pretty far out in the sticks. In the mountains past what anyone would call suburbia. Wouldn’t trade it for anything. Hate, hate public transportation.

43

A more simple alternative explanation is that most people don’t actually enjoy driving - It’s an chore for them. I’m halfway there myself: I enjoy driving, but fast and on open highways, there’s nothing worse than sitting in bumper to bumper traffic turning gasoline into CO2 while achieving nothing. This is a waste of my time and money and I’d much rather use public transit. With the advent of iPods and other mobile media, there’s no way I would ever do any “commuting”.

I really hope that one day, gas will be taxed enough so that most “commuters” will be forced into public transit.

44

Santa Barbara is pretty crunchy-granola, isn’t it? You may be able to find a car-sharing service. Here in Montreal we have one called Communauto, in which cars are distributed here and there; you pay a membership fee and can then book them inexpensively if you need a car in the city. You go to your nearest car location, obtain the key from a lockbox, take the car, return it, and list your mileage.

One of my volunteers in the last election used Communauto and it was very useful, especially after I broke my ankle.

45

Carless in Dublin, haven’t learned to drive. I get cabs quite alot but still never spend nearly as much on them as I would on a car. Only ever buy as many groceries as I can carry, if I need to move something that can’t be transported on bus I take a cab or call a friend or family member for a ride. Rarely much of an issue unless I want to go down the country somewhere.

46

I admit, maybe I have an issue with being in control. But it makes a HUGE difference in my attitude. If I’m stuck in traffic, at least I’m sitting down. I can listen to the radio, relax, look out the windows. If I’m stuck on the subway, I can listen to my iPod (over the screaming children), stand there (pressed against someone with questionable hygiene), and enjoy the scenery (dozens of other pissed-off/strung-out passengers, no windows). Being stuck in traffic doesn’t bother me nearly as much as being stuck on the subway.

And when I travel, I’m never just accepting rides from people, I’m asking them to shuttle me around. My sister and I had a fight recently over the fact that she was supposed to pick my up…but decided not to. I had to call my dad, who does shift work and was sleeping. It was midnight and he was an hour away. And then there was the time my MiL was running late and picked me up at the airport without enough time to clean up or change before my bridal shower. And then, and then, and then. THIS is what happens when I depend on other people. Maybe it’s a hazard of being related to a bunch of well-meaning but flaky people. At least if it’s my fault, I can blame myself and move on.

47

Oh, and Walrus for perspective. I may be farily young and healthy and able to pedal all over the city, but my mom is 72, has a heart condition, hasn’t been on a bike in probably more than 30 years, but she keeps her car in storage. She goes carless 98% of the time. (I don’t know why she keeps it at all.) She lives in the suburbs but works three days a week downtown. So you don’t need to be particularly young and fit, just willing.
She has the aforementioned “granny cart” to walk to the nearby grocery store, and takes the bus. Luckily, her transit system has a “90 minute transfer” that you can use in any direction. So she can take the bus to the mall (15 minutes), shop for an hour, and then use the transfer to complete her round trip, paying only a single fare.

48

Dude, I am completely psyched for your desire for a carless existence.

That said, the bus system in Santa Barbara is the shittiest I’ve ever seen in any city. I believe it shuts down about 6PM, except for the occasional night bus (maybe two lines). I love public transportation, but seriously other than the Goleta - SB run, I can’t imagine describing the bus system as “pretty good”. Perhaps you should take the bus more than twice. God help you if you ever have to transfer. As an environmental experiment, I tried to go from the K-Mart to downtown. I was at the bus stop at about 5:45PM. After waiting for a half an hour, I finally called up MTD, and I had already missed the last bus. Thank og I can affort a cab, otherwise it’s a damn long walk home.

Nevertheless, all power to you!

49

I guess I have no idea. The only time I’ve ever used it is during the day.

But I already walk and ride my bike a great deal, so public transportation in the city is not a big part of my carless plan.

50

I’ve not got any experience with this, but have head great things about the Sport Utility Bike from XtraCycle, and for added carless goodness, there is a electric assist device called a StokeMonkey that apparently makes even the steepest hills or the heaviest cargo easy.

I’m hoping to go this route sometime soon.

51

Huh. Hate to say it but - ‘site’? Chore? For myself It sure the heck beats riding a bus. To me, driving is more like an intermission. Sometimes I like intermissions. For the most part I don’t even think about it. I guess it’s tougher in the cities.

Gosh, thanks.

Not sure why commuters is in quotes there. Anyway, I think people forget about the millions upon millions of people that have no access to public transportation. And no, we can’t all just move.

Or the millions upon millions more that have access to shitty public transport that Darryl Lict describes

[bolding mine]. I’m guessing that Darryl likes public trasportation in general, but not this particular set up.

I don’t get it. People that don’t want to be in control? I can understand an anxiety about driving, but I prefer to control when I go and how long I stay.

Like many people, I have no access to public transport. I also have the need to carry dogs, and other large stuff around.

Unlike many, my drive to work or town in general is a very calm mountain drive (well, it’s gets pretty hairy in the winter – god help you if you where on some sort of bus). I guess that’s where some of the disconnect is.

Folks, please think twice about being able to force others into public transportation.

52

The reason why people have bad public transportation is because there is no market demand for it. If gas taxes are high enough, it will be built.

I’m not advocating anything more than that North Americans stop privatizing the gains of private car ownership while socializing the costs (pollution, global warming, traffic jams). Roads, clean air and climate change (climate change prime?) are common goods to greater or lesser extent that need to have a cost, otherwise people will quickly deplete them like any other “tragedy of the commons”. The easiest and fairest way to do it is to tax fuel consumption - the market will take care of the rest.

53

For cities, sure. For millions and millions of others, it’s not going to happen.

Tax people that can actually use it. Create the better PT (public transport) through LIDs or property taxes.

There is a sales tax in the County that I work (not that I live) for PT. Works pretty well. And at least it tries to tax those people that are most likely to be able to use the system.

Those of us that live where PT will never work are already paying more in gas taxes.
It’s funny really, a typical response from city folk is to just move into town. My typical response is, stay away. :wink:

Now, if you wanted to put a tax on petroleum to fund energy research, I’d be all over that. More bus lines, not so much. Invest in more high speed networks so that more people can telecommute.

Let’s put 2 cents a gallon tax on petroleum for solar, geothermal, wind, ocean, and nuclear research. That’s the long run, and that IMHO is what we need to do.

Sorry about the hijack AudreyK

54

I started to read this thread because I have never driven. I take public transport or ride a bicycle. I have done that when I have lived in NZ, Japan, Cambodia and Australia.
I was disappointed to realise this thread is actually about how to rent a car.

55

But people in cities driving needlessly is the problem I’m trying to address. I don’t particularly care what people in the country do, it doesn’t really make any difference either way, and the purpose of the tax is to reduce consumption of hydrocarbon fuel and reduce our environmental impact. Whether your burn the fuel in the city or the country has no bearing on anything. There is no need for further goverment intervention there, the market will take care of those details.

56

No you’re not. You suggested an across the board increase in taxes on fuel. You state that it doesn’t matter if you live in the country.

Do you have any idea where your food comes from?

You would tax the rest of the country to get better service in your area? How about some LIDs or property taxes to suport public transport for the the people that can use it?

I still wonder what your idea of “commuters” means. And what it would be like to be forced into public transit.

57

A little more…

Good luck to the OP. I donno. I’ve never been with out a car. But around here you will get a :rolleyes: if you don’t have at least a 4x4 (hopefully at least one truck) ready to go. The :rolleyes: is because we know we will be rescuing them at least 3 times every winter until they get a clue. We smile and nod and then after a winter of us pulling them out, they get the gear.

Yes, to live here you need a 4x4 with a plow and chains on all 4 wheels.

I can’t imagine being without a vehicle. Though then I can’t imagine myself in Manhattan (been there twice). And I suspect that many can’t imagine living in a place where winter is already on its way, and you simply must have a 4x4 to live here.

Good night all and take care.

58

Why should it?

What does that have to do with anything?

Sure, we can do that too.

I mean people who regularly drive to work. I didn’t know that was an ambiguous term.

Look, I know what you’re saying: Because you live in the country and thus have a god given right to consume more fuel, you should get some kind of subsidy or assistance from the government to support your noble acadian lifestyle (by allowing the rest of society to bear the burden of your pollution). I disagree with that. The pollution caused by cars is still pollution no matter where the cars are being driven, and the people causing it need to pay for it. A fuel tax allocates the costs to society exactly proportional to the people carrying out the undesirable behavior, same as taxes on cigarettes. Everything beyond that, the market can sort out. I don’t particularly care what smokers or people in the country do, why should I? I’m not the one causing the pollution. Iif they decide to raise the price of their produce, so be it, and consumers like me will decide whether we want to pay the premium, or not. Either way, the market efficiently allocates benefits and costs, and pollution is reduced. What’s so hard to understand?

59

Because you said and I quote

The problem is that you don’t care about anyone unless they live in the cities. You just said it. Up above there, read your own words.

Umm perhaps because shipping and producing food is a large part of its cost? And that’s just the tip of the Iceberg

Re: quoting “commuters”

It’s not.

It becomes a bit ambiguous when you put it in quotes suggesting a different meaning then all of the rest of us understand.

I didn’t think it was ambiguous “either” and I was just wondering why you “put” it “in” “quotes”.

You don’t know me from Adam and you slam my ‘noble acadian lifestyle’? I’ll have to show my wife that line. That’s rich. We live in the dirt and rocks at 11,200 feet. I like a good laugh, so I will thank you for that.

“Noble Acadian Lifestyle”. Hey, I’m gonna remember that if we ever sell this place.

You think I’m asking for assistance or subsidy from the government? Where in the hell do you get this stuff.

:snerk:

Wow.

And my apologies again for the hijack. I do hope that the OP finds the right kind of transport that works for them.

60

I’ve not owned a car for decades, and believe me, not being saddled with one – OR the expenses involved in owning one – is pure heaven. It helps if you live someplace that has good public transportation, but even when I was living in Albuquerque – which has a bus system that is okay, but only on main streets and even then you may have to wait up to an hour for the bus you want – I rode a bicycle everywhere. Honolulu, too, and Honolulu has an excellent bus system.

I had a good friend in Albuquerque who was envious of my lack of auto-related bills. He was always having to pay not only for gas, but also for insurance or new tires, always something related to the car. In fact, when he realized one day that I did not dread opening my mailbox and finding bills inside, he about dropped dead from envy. I had NO bills whatsoever in Albuquerque. My apartment was all-bills-paid, so no utility bills. I carried no credit cards back then. I didn’t feel I needed a telephone (pre-Internet days), so no phone bill. I didn’t have a television set, so no cable bills. I never ever received a bill in the mail for anything whatsoever.

But I digress. Bangkok has a big problem with traffic, and there’s no excuse for it. Taxes make cars so expensive that few people should be able to afford one, but thay all manage it somehow. Bangkok has a great public-transport system, and we use that a lot, but even if we were to take taxis every single time we went somewhere, we’d still be paying much less than if we owned a car. (Taxis are cheap here, costing only a couple of US dollars to get most places, three if it’s REALLY far.) We love not owning a car.