Sorry, Jayrot, the hijack continues. Crafter_Man and I are having a discussion.
I think perhaps we’re approaching this from different perspectives. What I envision from the stated “you are holding a badguy at gunpoint” is a situation where the chosen goal is to keep the person there until authorities arrive to arrest him, or something similar. He’s not attacking, and presumably if he started to you would shoot him (in the torso or head, I agree). If you wanted/needed to drop him, you would have done so already.
Now he says “the safety’s on,” almost certainly in the hopes that you’ll be foolish enough to divert your attention to the gun so that he can attack. Obviously you don’t want to do that. However, the scenario as stated is that it’s an unfamilar weapon, which implies that you very well might not know whether the safety is indeed on.
Now, if he KNEW the safety was on, he’d attack–no need for him to tell you about it. And if you KNEW it was off, you’d just continue to hold the gun on him, since the situation was unchanged. So chances are he’s bluffing. Your options are to bluff back (“I say it’s off. Wanna move and find out?”) or find out–by pulling the trigger.
If you decide to find out, it seems to me that a shot to the leg–or even a shot that misses–will do the job. If you were content to let him live up so far, why shoot to kill now? Of course, if the safety is on, you have just a split second to move it, so this would be feasible only if you at least knew where the safety button was. But the point is, you’re firing to verify (or disprove) that the safety is off, not in response to a threat.
A gun class for a total ( he says newbie) new guy to guns and you all talk about all kinds of guns and to or not to shoot to kill and … ::; sheesh ::::::: Why not C&P this to the anti-gun people to make all pro-gun people look like idiots…??? Who among you will, now that he is all up to speed, go out hunting or even walking in the woods or ghetto’s with this guy with a gun on him? Links to suggestions of gun courses or people who will teach him, that is one thing, but you are taking a non-gun person and making him into a train-wreck.
Nothing against the OP, but this is a great disservice to you IMO.
This is not the way to lean about guns. You said you didn’t want to read a book or take lessons. Why not? Go to classes? Take instruction? Why not. This is pure BS from supposedly ( I hope) rational gun people. NOT a good way to help people IMO
Gary T: What is this crap about bluffing? You’ve been watching too many movies.
The thing to keep in mind when you’re defending your life with a deadly weapon is that everything will need to be explained to a jury. Purposefully shooting someone in the leg for any reason looks very bad in front of a jury. Why? Because the jury is getting a mixed message: 1) You are telling them you were scared for your life, 2) You shoot the perpetrator in the leg. See the contradiction? “If you were scared for your life, why did you shoot him in the leg?”
You’re also making a mountain out of a mole hill. Keep it simple. When someone is threatening your life, you have a right to stop them with force. It is also not the time for games or “bluffing.” We’re talking life-or-death serious business here.
Jayrot, your question was in essence “How does one operate a gun?” as opposed to “How does a gun operate?”. It’s a pretty big questions, as there are many general types of guns, and they are operated differently, as you seem to be generally aware.
I would suggest that in conjunction with what you’ve learned from the information in this thread, you go to a local range that has rentals (there should be more than a few in your area) and take a beginner’s gun safety course. It shouldn’t be very expensive at all, and will be VERY educational. Advice: Don’t go and ask about shooting people in the legs and so on.
Another n00b checking in. Okay, in action movies, you have the scene when the good guy is facing the bad guy off with the gun and the bad guy is blathering some shit. At some point, the good guy cocks the thingie at the back (I assume this is the safety?) and that means hes REALLY serious. My question is, in RL, wouldn’t it just be easy to disarm somebody who standing with a gun 2 feet in front of your face with the safety off?
That’s not the safety, it’s the hammer. With (most) handguns, the hammer must be pulled back and cocked (i.e. locked in the rear position) before a bullet can be fired. With a double-action revolver, squeezing the trigger hard will cause the hammer to move back and then fall, firing the weapon, but the amount of force required affects accuracy. You’d be better served (with a revolver) by pulling the hammer back into the cocked position with your thumb. The amount of trigger squeeze to release the hammer is much smaller (which is why a revolver with the hammer cocked is considerably more dangerous) and you can place your shot more accurately. You can, if you’re very careful, hold the hammer with your thumb while squeezing the trigger and let the hammer gently return to the forward position without firing a bullet.
Most automatic pistols also have hammers, but the threatening action one sees in movies is often someone pulling the entire slide back, which chambers a round and cocks the hammer. You can also carefully lower to hammer to its forward position as described above, but then you’ll either need to recock it or give a large trigger squeeze to fire the round. If you just pull the slide back again, you’ll recock the hammer but the round you chambered earlier will be ejected and wasted. In normal operation, when the bullet is fired, some of the force of the explosion is used to push the slide back (you can see this in slow-motion movie scenes) which chambers the next round and recocks the hammer so another round can be fired immediately.
The safety makes a mild little unassuming “click” is not really all that menacing. A revolver or automatic being cocked may sound more like “ch-ch-click!” (i.e. a series of small clicks) and an automatic having its slide pulled and released makes a satisfying “chk-CHK!”
Of course, the best is a pump-action shotgun, with its manly “SHU-SHUCK!”
As for the second point, IF someone is holding a gun on you AND he’s within arm’s reach AND you honestly believe he is about to shoot you AND you have decided that you will kill him if given the opportunity, THEN snatching the gun away from him MIGHT make sense. You’ll have to decide that on a gunman-by-gunman basis.
Afterthought: never cock the hammer or pull the slide (on a handgun) or pull the cocking handle or bolt handle (on a rifle) and never insert a magazine (on any firearm) while your finger is on the trigger. I see this is movies all the time and it irritates the hell out of me. I know the actors know their weapons are fakes, but they keep curling the fingers around the triggers for no reason, and often at times when doing so on a real weapon would represent a major safety hazard.
GusNSpot, thanks for the concern. I think though, that everyone’s answering the OP in the spirit of the question and not advocating going out and getting himself a shootin’ iron without any training. Hopefully, the next questions we get from Jayrot will be where’s a good place to shoot, get training, etc.
Go to a gun shop and ask. It may help if you say, “I’m thinking purchasing a gun, but I really don’t know much about them.” Generally, the staff are friendly and happy to help. If you get some macho jackass, ask for somebody else. You’ll be able to handle a variety of guns in a safe environment.
Another good way to find out is to go to an action shooting event at a shooting range. Bring ear protection! (I fired my .45 once without ear protection and my ears rang for three days.) Try searching this address for an event in your area: www.shooternet.com/events/search.htm.
Please note that one does not aim for the “body’s energy center.” One aims for the center of exposed mass. “Exposed” means “what you can see.” Dirty Harry notwithstanding, one does not shoot through walls, etc., where the expected path of the bullet cannot be seen. Also note that ANY shot fired at a person will be viewed as an application of lethal force, and will be treated as such by the police when they arrive (or locate you through investigative means). If there is any question about whether you were in immediate jeopardy of unlawful penetration, serious bodily injury, or death, you will end up in handcuffs. Obviously, the law varies by state.
My grandfather was killed by an “unloaded” shotgun. Keep in mind that, almost without exception!, what you see on television or in the movies are examples of very unsafe firearms behavior.
Well, Crafter_Man, I acknowledge that your perspective is probably more reality-based than the one I was arguing. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’ve got a TV show to watch.
I can almost tolerate bad gun handling by actors but I know shooters who should know better than to violate rule 2*. One in particular would look at guns in a shop and wrap his finger around the trigger on picking up the piece. Severe beatings with chunks of fire hose seem to have had an effect. He now correctly holds his trigger finger against the frame and aims away from people if he wants to look at the sights.
I honestly think bad gun handling in movies is why women consistently learn good shooting habits faster than men. For the most part they haven’t been brainwashed and are not trying to imitate die hard or sideways holding gangsta’ thugs. Fabulous doper babes Mauvaise and TheLadyLion are two of the best novice pistol shooters I have ever seen.
The four rules of gun safety
1: Every gun is loaded
Keep your finger out of the trigger guard until you are ready to fire
Never allow the muzzle to cover anything you do not wish to destroy
Know your target and what is beyond if your bullet does not stop
This PSA brought to you by the friends of Jeff Cooper.
Hehe, one of my favorite The Simpsons episides. Phoenix has no Bloodbath & Beyond and unfortunately landmark gun shop Guns 'R Us/Postal Plus is now closed.
