# tell me about learning Japanese **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 2, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969 "2011-04-02T20:30:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/41 "2011-04-04T19:08:53Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > There are 5 year old kids in Japan who speak it; how hard can it be? It took them five years of total immersion. Plus, they’re little kids; their brains are made of Silly Putty[sup]TM[/sup], and a lot more sticks to them. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/42 "2011-04-04T20:18:10Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Trust me, they know. yeah I already have so much going against me I don’t need to make it worse ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/43 "2011-04-04T22:43:17Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > I can’t watch anime because I don’t want people to think I am a turbovirgin nerd May I politely suggest that this attitude might be contributing to your lack of success with the ladies? Like what you like and be proud of it. ---
**Author:** ![umop\_ap\_sdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/dbc845/32.png) [@umop\_ap\_sdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/umop_ap_sdn)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/44 "2011-04-04T23:16:10Z")
I studied ancient Greek for a while before I began studying Japanese, and one thing I found was that the different markers Japanese places after nouns (wa, ga, wo, etc) reminded me of Greek’s case system. I felt this made it easier to learn Japanese sentence structure. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2011, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/45 "2011-04-04T23:36:05Z")
but I don’t like anime. I wish I could just like what I like without everyone else telling me what I should watch ---
**Author:** ![xoferew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/e9a140/32.png) [@xoferew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xoferew)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/46 "2011-04-05T01:05:07Z")
I’ve finally gotten good enough at Japanese to read novels if they are fairly straightforward, and this year I got my Level One Certificate of Japanese-Language Proficiency. I’ve been studying off and on for TWENTY YEARS. Of course, this doesn’t mean Japanese is that hard necessarily. It could be a sad reflection on my language learning ability or level of diligence. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/47 "2011-04-05T01:33:19Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > It took them five years of total immersion. Plus, they’re little kids; their brains are made of Silly Putty[sup]TM[/sup], and a lot more sticks to them. O-woosh-o. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/48 "2011-04-05T03:48:14Z")
> [@PSXer](#): > > I wish I could just like what I like without everyone else telling me what I should watch Then stop asking our opinion about what you should do. Seriously. Do what you like and then share it with us. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/49 "2011-04-05T03:51:52Z")
I wasn’t asking in this topic for opinions on what to watch ---
**Author:** ![Mississippienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d2c977/32.png) [@Mississippienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mississippienne)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/50 "2011-04-05T04:20:32Z")
The classic essay for prospective learners of Japanese: [So you want to learn Japanese](http://www.thunderguy.com/japan/learn-japanese/classes/so-you-want-to-learn-japanese/)? > [@](#): > > Japanese grammar is not for the faint of heart or weak of mind. What’s more, the Japanese also do not have any words for “me”, “them”, “him, or “her” that anyone could use without being incredibly insulting (the Japanese word for “you”, for example, when written in kanji, translates to “I hope a monkey scratches your face off”). Because of this, the sentence “He just killed her!” and “I just killed her!” sound exactly the same, meaning that most people in Japan have no idea what is going on around them at any given moment. You are supposed to figure these things out from the “context”, which is a German word meaning “you’re screwed”. Seriously though, language learning is one of those personal things, and there’s not really a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ language for anyone to learn. That being said, I would like to ask what the appeal is of Japanese for so many people? I realize it’s partly confirmation bias, but sometimes it seems like 3/4ths of my livejournal friendslist is talking about their Japanese midterms at any given point. Why does Japanese, of all the bazillions of languages out there, appeal to so many people? I could understand if you’re dating a Japanese person, or you are really into Japanese language media (those Japanese students can’t all be wannabe ‘otaku’, can they?), or its part of your family heritage, but it seems like its a language that really attracts a lot of language learners. Has Japanese, despite its difficulty for English speakers, become ‘chic’? Is that it? This is one of those subjective things again, but I don’t think it’s a terribly pretty language, to be honest, and as far as writing systems go, Chinese is much more ornate and beautiful. Unless Japanese really speaks to you for some reason, why not try a rare or endangered language and learn to speak a language that desperately needs more speakers? There’s the incredibly beautiful and vanishing Celtic languages; Coptic, the last surviving descendant of the ancient Egyptian language; the sophisticated Ladino, which is to Spanish what Yiddish is to German; and many thousands of others. I have it as a life goal to learn one Native American language before I die. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/51 "2011-04-05T04:22:38Z")
Japanese is cool because everyone wants to be able to watch anime and play videogames in their original language and show their devotion to glorious Nippon ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/52 "2011-04-05T14:02:38Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > I would like to ask what the appeal is of Japanese for so many people? Well, I grew up in Seattle which was jam-packed with the little buggers. I figured it would be cool to understand them a bit more on their own terms. Sorta like how folks in the southwestern US might want to learn themselves some Spanish. Technically, I guess, they need to learn English if they come to America, but the real world answer is they’re busy making a living and adjusting to a new culture and it’s no skin off my nose to meet them halfway. Also, I became fascinated with the culture when I got exposed to it in a class in college. There was a bank of electives we were required to pick from (it was a liberal arts college–breadth of exposure was favored over depth) and Japanese history was where my random pointy finger landed when I was putting together my sophomore year schedule. Totally dug the class and wanted to know more. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/53 "2011-04-05T18:58:26Z")
> [@Double\_Foolscap](#): > > I only started reading this thread to post this :mad: Hey, I was surprised nobody had beaten me to it! ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/54 "2011-04-05T20:31:55Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > The classic essay for prospective learners of Japanese: [So you want to learn Japanese](http://www.thunderguy.com/japan/learn-japanese/classes/so-you-want-to-learn-japanese/)? > [@](#): > > Japanese grammar is not for the faint of heart or weak of mind. What’s more, the Japanese also do not have any words for “me”, “them”, “him, or “her” that anyone could use without being incredibly insulting This is false. It can be considered somewhat disrespectful to use a pronoun instead of addressing a party by name, depending on circumstances and to whom you are speaking, but it’s not anywhere near as egregious an offense as this quote makes it seem, and will usually be excused as simple ignorance of customs. > [@](#): > > (the Japanese word for “you”, for example, when written in kanji, translates to “I hope a monkey scratches your face off”). I guess this is supposed to be a joke as 貴方 (kanji for あなた) does not mean what is quoted. > [@](#): > > Because of this, the sentence “He just killed her!” and “I just killed her!” sound exactly the same, meaning that most people in Japan have no idea what is going on around them at any given moment. The phrases only sound exactly the same when the pronoun is omitted, because then they are exactly the same. > [@](#): > > You are supposed to figure these things out from the “context”, which is a German word meaning “you’re screwed”. Because of the context, you don’t have to figure anything out. In the case of I/she/you/we/they killed her, if the context of the conversation doesn’t make it clear who did the killing, the appropriate pronoun is used. Mostly, however, it is unnecessary. > [@Mississippienne](#): > > Seriously though, language learning is one of those personal things, and there’s not really a ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ language for anyone to learn. That being said, I would like to ask what the appeal is of Japanese for so many people? I realize it’s partly confirmation bias, but sometimes it seems like 3/4ths of my livejournal friendslist is talking about their Japanese midterms at any given point. Why does Japanese, of all the bazillions of languages out there, appeal to so many people? I could understand if you’re dating a Japanese person, or you are really into Japanese language media (those Japanese students can’t all be wannabe ‘otaku’, can they?), or its part of your family heritage, but it seems like its a language that really attracts a lot of language learners. I think it is confirmation bias. I’ve been learning Japanese for a number of years now, and taking classes for the last three, but I rarely interact with Japanese speakers here in the states, and of those I do, 95 percent are in my class, or are my secondary tutors. Of course I’m in New Jersey, which is not known for its enclaves of Japanese residents. > [@Mississippienne](#): > > Has Japanese, despite its difficulty for English speakers, become ‘chic’? Is that it? I can’t speak to it being chic. It is a challenging language to become proficient in, and I like that. > [@Mississippienne](#): > > This is one of those subjective things again, but I don’t think it’s a terribly pretty language, to be honest, and as far as writing systems go, Chinese is much more ornate and beautiful. I find Japanese calligraphy to be just as beautiful and ornate as Chinese. > [@Mississippienne](#): > > Unless Japanese really speaks to you for some reason, why not try a rare or endangered language and learn to speak a language that desperately needs more speakers? There’s the incredibly beautiful and vanishing Celtic languages; Coptic, the last surviving descendant of the ancient Egyptian language; the sophisticated Ladino, which is to Spanish what Yiddish is to German; and many thousands of others. I have it as a life goal to learn one Native American language before I die. I have an affinity for languages and pick them up relatively easily. Japanese is the most challenging language I’ve tackled to date. I have an additional incentive others may not, however, in that I have Japanese clients. ---
**Author:** ![PSXer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/48db29/32.png) [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/55 "2011-04-05T20:48:55Z")
obviosuly a joke. you got wooshed ---
**Author:** ![Max\_Torque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Max\_Torque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_Torque)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/56 "2011-04-05T20:55:46Z")
Apparently there is also no way to express “It was a joke, son” in Japanese. Ah well, I’m gonna go learn Esperanto. I mean, “Mi lernos Esperanto.” Hey, on my way already! ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [April 5, 2011, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/57 "2011-04-05T21:00:11Z")
> [@Max\_Torque](#): > > Apparently there is also no way to express “It was a joke, son” in Japanese. > > Ah well, I’m gonna go learn Esperanto. You may want to contact doper **Sunspace** who, I believe, belongs to an Esperanto club. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/58 "2011-04-06T00:13:37Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > You may want to contact doper **Sunspace** who, I believe, belongs to an Esperanto club. _Saluton! Ĉu vi volas lerni Esperanton?_Hi! Do you want to learn Esperanto?I actually started learning Esperanto because it was supposed to be easier than other languages, I really wanted to learn _something_, and I hadn’t learned enough French to matter. What I discovered was that having one language at some level of fluency made it easier to learn another. I can now do much better at French than I ever could before. And as I mentioned in [this thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=368675), I’d been interested in Japanese for a long time. So when I took the Japanese immersion lessons, I was ecstatic to discover that I was actually picking it up faster than I’d ever picked up a language before. But learning _one_ other language, _any_ other language, makes it easier to pick up a third. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/59 "2011-04-06T01:46:21Z")
> [@Mississippienne](#): > > Unless Japanese really speaks to you for some reason, why not try a rare or endangered language and learn to speak a language that desperately needs more speakers? There’s the incredibly beautiful and vanishing Celtic languages; Coptic, the last surviving descendant of the ancient Egyptian language; the sophisticated Ladino, which is to Spanish what Yiddish is to German; and many thousands of others. I have it as a life goal to learn one Native American language before I die. Linguistic altruism is definitely one of the most offbeat reasons I have ever heard for learning a language. It might be a nice idea, but I doubt it would motivate the years of grinding work it takes to master a language. It’s probably better to want to read the literature. If you want to learn Coptic, you had better like Shenoute and saints’ lives because that’s most of what you are going to get. If you are into Egypt, learn Egyptian. I love Occitan, but if you aren’t keen on troubadour poetry, you’re probably in for a long road. If you don’t already care for the literature, you probably won’t get much of a charge out of being part of a language revivalist movement unless you are actually from the revived ethnolinguistic group. I have managed to meet exactly one native Occitan speaker and certainly no genuine Coptic speakers. Buckets of my colleagues can read these languages because they like the literatures. I think it’s a lot more worthwhile to stick with any old language than to start one because of its glamor and drop it shortly thereafter. You aren’t going to save a language by learning it and living thousands of miles away from its actual context. Just pick whatever piques your interest and stick it out. ---
**Author:** ![wheresmymind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@wheresmymind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wheresmymind)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969/60 "2011-04-06T02:10:22Z")
I took a couple semesters of Japanese in college. Learning the basics (how to make a simple sentence, how to ask a question, etc) wasn’t that difficult, it’s just nothing like English. Learning hirigana and katakana was actually pretty easy. Kanji (I only ever learned about 2 dozen) were another story, don’t let that stop you. If you want to be fluent, I’d say it’s probably extremely difficult. But the basics (Where is the bus stop? How much does that cost? It is raining outside. Today is my birthday, etc) aren’t much more difficult than any other language. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-learning-japanese/576969.md?page=4)