# Tell me about living in Arizona **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 30, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588 "2017-04-30T18:23:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/1 "2017-04-30T18:23:24Z")
So the spouse and I are nowhere near retirement age yet, but it’s close enough that we want to start thinking about it. We currently live in the Silicon Valley, where prices are absolutely cuckoo insane, and the more I think about it, the more I think it would be stupid to retire here. The spouse agrees. Problem is, we can’t agree on a place to end up. We both want somewhere we can sell our house in the Bay Area and buy something (probably a lot nicer, since our house is nothing great) outright, and there are a lot of places like that. But I like greenery and don’t mind rain, and he refuses to live anywhere that gets a lot of rain or any snow (I don’t mind the no-snow thing, since I’m not a fan either) because bad weather depresses him. Complicating matters further, I’m liberal and agnostic, and he’s conservative and Christian. So he wants to go somewhere that’s not a liberal hotbed like the Bay Area, and I refuse to go anywhere that’s too red-state because my head would explode. The more I think about it, the more Arizona seems like a possibility. There are some nice houses there that we could afford, we have friends in the Mesa/Scottsdale area, and I’m guessing the general conservatism of the state could be offset by a more liberal focus in a metropolitan areas. I’m not nuts about the heat or the desert, but I think I could learn to live with them. Since I spend most of my time writing books and playing games, I’d probably be spending a lot of time in the house anyway. So…for those who live in the area, am I deluding myself? What do you like about living there, and what do you hate? Would it be a massive culture shock for lifelong Californians? Thanks for your thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/2 "2017-04-30T19:53:17Z")
We’ll never leave. There’s no place else that has the combination of weather, inexpensive housing, great restaurants, things to do, and general ease of living. We live in an area that is like “country-in-the-city” - it’s horse properties that are close to all the high-end shopping and resorts you could ask for. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/3 "2017-04-30T20:00:38Z")
To elaborate: Comparison with cities we’ve thought of moving to: San Diego: Too damn expensive San Francisco: See above Seattle: Crummy weather Austin: Great, but also too expensive Houston: Crummy weather Santa Fe: Too small Vegas: Ugh. Albuquerque: No reason to move there Denver: Awesome, but too cold Anywhere on the East coast: Great for a visit, but too cold, expensive and lousy traffic My wife hates the cold (cold being anything under 80), and also doesn’t like cockroaches and humidity (ruling out anywhere in Florida). ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/4 "2017-04-30T20:39:12Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > To elaborate: > Comparison with cities we’ve thought of moving to: > > San Diego: Too damn expensive > San Francisco: See above > Seattle: Crummy weather > Austin: Great, but also too expensive > Houston: Crummy weather > Santa Fe: Too small > Vegas: Ugh. > Albuquerque: No reason to move there > Denver: Awesome, but too cold > Anywhere on the East coast: Great for a visit, but too cold, expensive and lousy traffic > My wife hates the cold (cold being anything under 80), and also doesn’t like cockroaches and humidity (ruling out anywhere in Florida). Well, I have lived in Albuquerque and consider it a fine place to live. The cost of living is a lot lower than Santa Fe, but you still have a Southwest flavor that while not as heavy as Santa Fe, the capital is only an hour away by car. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/5 "2017-04-30T20:50:20Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Well, I have lived in Albuquerque and consider it a fine place to live. The cost of living is a lot lower than Santa Fe, but you still have a Southwest flavor that while not as heavy as Santa Fe, the capital is only an hour away by car. I didn’t mean to disparage Albuquerque, it’s just that it’s a smaller version of Phoenix. Awesome New Mexican Hatch-chili food, though! ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/6 "2017-04-30T21:10:57Z")
Arizona is almost as good as Nevada. ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/7 "2017-04-30T21:40:13Z")
How about something CA central valley or sierra foothills?? Warm, little if any snow, reasonable real estate, maybe not the most fabulous foodie scene, but pretty much the absolute best fruits and vegetables in the world. The food scene in Fresno has improved in leaps and bounds over the last 20 years. Its not the most glamorous place but up against SF, LA, and San Diego it does pale by comparison. Plus side half the cost of living. A nice large house in a nice neighborhood $300-400k. Less preferable areas less than $100k ---
**Author:** ![jtur88](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9c0ed/32.png) [@jtur88](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jtur88)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/8 "2017-04-30T21:54:42Z")
Well, you don’t need a show shovel. Unless you live in Flagstaff, which ranks after Buffalo as the second snowiest metro in the USA. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/9 "2017-04-30T23:37:43Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I didn’t mean to disparage Albuquerque, it’s just that it’s a smaller version of Phoenix. Awesome New Mexican Hatch-chili food, though! One thing Albuquerque has over Phoenix is a milder climate. The summers don’t broil – or didn’t when I was there; dunno about now with climate change. But at an altitude of 5000-7000 feet, I recall it being fairly uncomfortable for about 10 days in June, then mild the rest of the summer. I was there during the winter of 1990-91 – pretty darned cold, but I’ve been assured that one was an unseasonable outlier. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/10 "2017-04-30T23:58:39Z")
Big rental places and housing are popping like mushrooms now. > **[Downtown growth creates housing boom | Cronkite News - AZ PBS](https://cronkitenews.azpbs.org/2016/05/04/urban-development/)** > > Several new apartments are being built in and around Downtown Phoenix, many with amenities built for students. > **[Notice construction downtown? That's because Phoenix is playing catch-up with...](https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/contributor/2016/03/02/downtown-phoenix-growth-demand-apartments/80781360/)** > > Developers hope to transform the vacant Circles Records and Tapes store in downtown Phoenix into apartments > [@](#): > > Klocke gave three reasons for the rise in the downtown Phoenix market: > > [ul] > [li]Demographic trends. Lots of students and younger people are going to live in downtown Phoenix, either for education or work.[/li][li] Desire for mobility. Living in an apartment allows people to move easily.[/li][li] Urban vibe. Downtown is becoming a true urban neighborhood with amenities that include education, restaurants, arts and cultural museums, and sports stadiums.[/li][/ul] > > It’s not only for jobs, Klocke said, since many people who don’t work downtown may nonetheless like living downtown. For the past few years, the vacancy rates of office towers have not changed but the occupancy levels of apartments are going up, he said. > > Klocke said high-rise projects like the Empire Group’s help to provide a full range of apartment options. > > Mentioning the high rent in downtown, Klocke said as long as the Phoenix area continues to provide decent jobs, people will earn salaries to afford the apartments. > > Nearly 6,600 job positions are provided in the circle between Central Avenue and Washington Street, Klocke said. Additions such as the Arizona State University Law School are coming and some technology firms plan to take the vacant offices here, providing more jobs. > > Thirty years ago, Phoenix was a relatively small city, but that has mushroomed to about 1.5 million people, Klocke said. With Arapio and other extremists gone there is less of an issue for businesses to come, and more immigrants (not the ones from the south, I’m talking here from other states) that are expected to come are bound to make the state more moderate and less hyper conservative. Phoenix has been going that way for awhile already. Besides, I need to set a dopefest in Arizona again, and you and the missus could be the main guests. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/11 "2017-05-01T00:21:44Z")
People who live there supposedly get used to it, but I spent a lot of time in Phoenix over the years (visiting in business), and it can be brutal in the summer. Beware the heat. From wikipedia: > [@](#): > > Average high temperatures in summer are the hottest of any major city in the United States. On average, there are 107 days annually with a high of at least 100 °F (38 °C) including most days from late May through early October. Highs top 110 °F (43 °C) an average of 18 days during the year. On June 26, 1990, the temperature reached an all-time recorded high of 122 °F (50 °C). > > Unlike most desert locations which undergo drastic fluctuations between day and nighttime temperatures, Phoenix’s diurnal temperature variation is limited by the urban heat island effect. As the city has expanded, average summer low temps have been steadily rising. The daily heat of the sun is stored in pavement, sidewalks, and buildings, and it is radiated back out at night. The daily normal low remains at or above 80 °F (27 °C) for an average of 67 days per summer. On July 15, 2003, Phoenix set its record for the warmest daily low temperature, at 96 °F (36 °C). I was there on that record 122 deg day back in 1990. I’ll never forget it. They closed the airport because it was too hot for the planes to take off (I was supposed to leave that day). We got out the next day when it was “only 117 deg”. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/12 "2017-05-01T00:24:30Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Arizona is almost as good as Nevada. We have gambling casinos here, too, so it’s just as good. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/13 "2017-05-01T00:34:18Z")
I hate the weather there, ymmv. Maricopa County is still very conservative, Tucson is a little less so but still hot if you prefer that. > [@cochrane](#): > > We have gambling casinos here, too, so it’s just as good. It’s not a casino if it doesn’t have craps or roulette (or baccarat but that’s not popular), sorry. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/14 "2017-05-01T00:48:39Z")
It’s hot and full of asshole conservatives. Arizona can be ceded to Mexico for all I care. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/15 "2017-05-01T00:53:48Z")
I have a photo a friend in Phoenix took of a pool thermometer registering over ninety degrees. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/16 "2017-05-01T03:09:53Z")
Coming from the Bay Area, are you comfortable with the Endless Identical Sprawl genre of American city? That’s the big question IMO. I’ve spent some time in Phoenix on business and it’s as hot as they say (but AC is a thing), there are at least a few really good restaurants, and there’s some cool stuff to do in the area. I’m just never particularly comfortable in the giant suburban sprawl metros, and the Phoenix metro does that like few others. (Also it’s too conservative for me, still. But it’s getting there!) ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/17 "2017-05-01T03:16:10Z")
I hated the area. You have to drive everywhere and it seems like the whole city repeats itself every 4 blocks. Hope you like chain restaurants, Olive Garden is often voted best Italian restaurant. I left 5 years ago and don’t miss it all. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/18 "2017-05-01T03:25:33Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > We have gambling casinos here, too, so it’s just as good. No. Last time I was there, Circle K wouldn’t sell me beer on Sunday. Hell, I can walk down the street with a bottle of beer anytime I want in Nevada! And no state income tax! ---
**Author:** ![pohjonen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pohjonen/32/423_2.png) [@pohjonen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pohjonen)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/19 "2017-05-01T04:42:23Z")
You need to like it hot. We lived by Phoenix for awhile, and the electricity is very expensive so thermostats everywhere are set to 85. That feels good for about 10 minutes when you come in from outside where it’s 115. It stops feeling good the minute you start doing any work. But if you don’t hate the heat as I do you might be okay. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2017, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588/20 "2017-05-01T04:58:07Z")
> [@pohjonen](#): > > You need to like it hot. We lived by Phoenix for awhile, and the electricity is very expensive so thermostats everywhere are set to 85. That feels good for about 10 minutes when you come in from outside where it’s 115. It stops feeling good the minute you start doing any work. But if you don’t hate the heat as I do you might be okay. Phoenix has average electricity prices (around 12¢/KWH). Our 2,400 sq. ft. all-electric house (with pool) averages around $175/month, and we keep it at 74°F in the winter and 77°F in the summer. We do take advantage of the “time-of-day” electric rates, and we have an efficient heat pump. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-living-in-arizona/785588.md?page=2)