# Tell me about non-cable TV **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 9, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869 "2014-10-09T15:29:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![DCnDC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dcndc/32/2842_2.png) [@DCnDC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DCnDC)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/1 "2014-10-09T15:29:21Z")
Analog TV is dead (well, the hard deadline actually isn’t until September 2015, but as far as the majority of average viewer is concerned, it’s dead), at least in the US, and now we have “DTV.” Having had cable continuously since the late 80s, I have no idea what modern non-cable TV is like. Apparently there are sub-channels, like channel 5.2? What’s reception like? Is there still static, or is it a “perfectly clear picture or nothing”-type situation? Are there still UHF-type stations airing strange, random programming? What else should I know? ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/2 "2014-10-09T17:16:07Z")
there are stations with 2 or 3 subchannels. some have none. yes there are stations with more subchannels but that might be low quality weather, text or audio. each subchannel you might think of as another tv channel or station. the signal is digital. if you have good reception and a HDTV set then you can see nose hairs in the newscaster’s face and blades of grass on the golf course. maybe not really but close for a station with no subchannels. there is no static. it sort of was claimed it would be an all or nothing picture and it mostly is. with a marginal signal the audio might breakup or you might see blocky areas (like super giant pixels). most stations moved to UHF. so you would need a UHF antenna and maybe VHF-HI. go to [http://www.tvfool.com/](http://www.tvfool.com/) click on Check Your Address for Free TV for best results enter your address. it will show you the stations you can expect for the height of antenna you specified. it will also show you the real channel numbers (which tell you if it’s UHF, VHF-HI, VHF-LO and so what antenna you need). it will also show you the direction the antenna needs to point. if you have stations in multiple directions then you will likely need to re-aim the antenna or use two antennas and switch between them (i do this). there are lots of retro stations, most markets will have 1 or 3. they show old shows from past decades and movies. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/3 "2014-10-09T17:18:47Z")
LOTS of infomercials. Lots of “reality” TV. Quite a few talk shows. Prime time still runs actual series about half the time - the CIS family of shows, for example, are non-cable broadcast TV network series and quite successful. The sub-channels (5.2, 20.3, etc.) seem largely reruns of old series. And by old, I mean back to things like _Rawhide_, _Davy Crockett_, _The Rifleman_… basically, back to the 1950’s, all the way up to 1970’s or 80’s shows. Some of them specialize in westerns or some other format. Some are all movies all the time. Some specialize in cooking shows, or a non-English language. The subchannel pictures are as clear as the main channels, that is, either digital clarity or nothing (well, a brief mid-level of pixelation but that usually goes to nothing rather quickly). However, black-and-white 1960 TV footage is NOT high definition and thanks to modern technology, you can see that very clearly. If you have a large-screen TV you may want to opt for it to display such shows at “original size” rather than stretched to fit the screen for best picture quality. ---
**Author:** ![Aquadementia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aquadementia/32/555_2.png) [@Aquadementia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aquadementia)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/4 "2014-10-09T17:54:17Z")
A channel has the best quality it’s going to be when received over the air. There is no static, HOWEVER, a weak signal that falls below the threshold becomes glitchy. There is still something between perfect and nothing at all.You may get a hiccup of a few frames missing every few minutes or you may find more missing then received. A really bad signal that you’re still getting will look like a mosaic, which can be something like a digital lava lamp. It’s more annoying then static. There are sub channels networks like This, Antenna, RTV, Me (those are the names, folks) as well as weather channels or traffic cams, depending on where you live. PBS makes the most out their sub-channels. I think there is room for more interesting things to be done with sub-channels but most old content is owned by huge media companies that also have cable channels. Not that they will use it for their channel but would never let a competitor have it. > [@Broomstick](#): > > LOTS of infomercials. Lots of “reality” TV. Quite a few talk shows. Well, that’s mostly on the local network affiliates. Not so much on the new sub-channels in my experience. ---
**Author:** ![ZipperJJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zipperjj/32/211_2.png) [@ZipperJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZipperJJ)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/5 "2014-10-09T18:11:23Z")
There is a lot of strange, random programming. Every market is different. It’s fun! In my market they just added “GritTV” and “Escape.” One is weird old movies for men, the other is weird old movies for women. ---
**Author:** ![JKilez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e5b9ba/32.png) [@JKilez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKilez)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/6 "2014-10-09T18:14:17Z")
> [@Aquadementia](#): > > A channel has the best quality it’s going to be when received over the air. > > There is no static, HOWEVER, a weak signal that falls below the threshold becomes glitchy. There is still something between perfect and nothing at all. I will quickly point out that YMMV depending on your market, but I generally agree with the above. Most of the time the picture quality is fantastic, better even than the same channels on cable (fewer compression artifacts). It does not take much of an antenna to get a good a picture either–you just need to spend some time initially positioning it to dial in the best signal across all the channels. While there is something between perfect and nothing at all, that range is much smaller than with analog. When I received “normal” TV signals, the picture was never perfect, it was always some degree of crappy. With digital, if I can receive a signal reliably, it is perfect over 90% of the time. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/7 "2014-10-09T18:22:51Z")
I’m a little confused; I haven’t watched actual broadcast TV in a long time- 30 years(?) because my parents had cable, we had cable in college, I had cable after college, and my wife and I have satellite TV. But at no point during that stretch was I ever deprived of the usual networks (NBC,ABC,CBS, FOX, CW) or the local UHF independents. How does having cable change that? If anything, I get a wider net of local stations, with TBS and WGN. As for the actual digital broadcasts, I have no clue. My TV would take an external antenna to get them, and I haven’t ever ponied up the cash to get one, seeing as how I have satellite TV. I have’t w ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/8 "2014-10-09T18:41:27Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’m a little confused; I haven’t watched actual broadcast TV in a long time- 30 years(?) because my parents had cable, we had cable in college, I had cable after college, and my wife and I have satellite TV. > > But at no point during that stretch was I ever deprived of the usual networks (NBC,ABC,CBS, FOX, CW) or the local UHF independents. How does having cable change that? If anything, I get a wider net of local stations, with TBS and WGN. With cable or satellite, you generally don’t get the sub-channels people are talking about. You ain’t missing much. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/9 "2014-10-09T19:21:56Z")
Most cable systems that carry a main channel in your area will also carry the stations’ subchannels. If you have a station that broadcasts MeTV, for example, and it’s a subchannel of a main broadcaster in your area, the cable company will have it in your area, also. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/10 "2014-10-09T19:51:39Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I’m a little confused; I haven’t watched actual broadcast TV in a long time- 30 years(?) because my parents had cable, we had cable in college, I had cable after college, and my wife and I have satellite TV. The main bonus with broadcast/antenna is that, once you have bought the TV and antenna, _it is free and remains that way_. When I lost my job in 2007 we ditched the pay-TV because we didn’t need another bill. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/11 "2014-10-09T19:58:40Z")
I don’t know about other areas, but in addition to the network channels and sub channels, I get the ION family of stations (Ion, IonLife, Qubo and a bunch of home shopping channels), the CW, several religious ones, a Spanish language channel and both channel and sub channel broadcast from my small town. The topography where you live may limit your variety. I live in hilly terrain and my local NBC affiliate broadcasts from a high elevation, which sends the signal over the top of a lot of their viewing area (this was a problem back during analog days too). PBS has the same issue. ☹ My guess is that if you lived on flat terrain, your reception would likely be pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/intergalactic_gladiator/32/112_2.png) [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Intergalactic_Gladiator)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/12 "2014-10-09T20:06:16Z")
With TV reception via antenna, I have difficulty getting channel 2 here in Chicago on one of my TVs. Evidently I am not the only one. ---
**Author:** ![SmellMyWort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SmellMyWort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmellMyWort)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/13 "2014-10-09T20:28:00Z")
If you want to get an idea of what’s show in your area go to TV Guide dot com, select “What’s On,” put in your zip code and then select broadcast TV. It should give you a channel list including the substations and you can adjust days/times to see what kind of stuff the substations show. ---
**Author:** ![Doug\_Bowe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df788c/32.png) [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/14 "2014-10-09T20:35:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > The main bonus with broadcast/antenna is that, once you have bought the TV and antenna, _it is free and remains that way_. > > When I lost my job in 2007 we ditched the pay-TV because we didn’t need another bill. This. Cut the cable and never looked back. If you like older reruns see if you get RTV (Retro TV network) that was made for commercial TV stations to put on one of their sub channels. More current reruns and some movies look for MyTV network. Your PBS station may run the Create Network which is all of their “how-to” shows. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/15 "2014-10-09T20:39:20Z")
cable system often don’t carry broadcast station subchannels. you may get them if you get their digital service and maybe a higher tier package. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [October 9, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/16 "2014-10-09T20:43:48Z")
> [@Doug\_Bowe](#): > > Your PBS station may run the Create Network which is all of their “how-to” shows. might also be a World Network. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/17 "2014-10-10T00:46:15Z")
> [@missred](#): > > I don’t know about other areas, but in addition to the network channels and sub channels, I get the ION family of stations (Ion, IonLife, Qubo and a bunch of home shopping channels), the CW, several religious ones, a Spanish language channel and both channel and sub channel broadcast from my small town. > > The topography where you live may limit your variety. I live in hilly terrain and my local NBC affiliate broadcasts from a high elevation, which sends the signal over the top of a lot of their viewing area (this was a problem back during analog days too). PBS has the same issue. ☹ > > My guess is that if you lived on flat terrain, your reception would likely be pretty good. I live in Tucson and most of the signals from the main transmitters are blocked from me by the Catalina foothills. However, most of the stations also have secondary translators that beam their signal into locations where their main transmitters don’t reach. I can receive four stations transmitting a total of ten channels that way with a pair of rabbit ears, including ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS. I can also pick up the CW affiliate which beams their signal in a straight shot to my direction from about 44 miles away. I can also pick up the ION TV affiliate. They all come in with a strong, clear picture and great stereo sound with absolutely no breaking up. About the only network I can’t get is FOX. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/18 "2014-10-10T01:28:13Z")
> [@cochrane](#): > > I live in Tucson and most of the signals from the main transmitters are blocked from me by the Catalina foothills. However, most of the stations also have secondary translators that beam their signal into locations where their main transmitters don’t reach. I can receive four stations transmitting a total of ten channels that way with a pair of rabbit ears, including ABC, NBC, CBS, and PBS. I can also pick up the CW affiliate which beams their signal in a straight shot to my direction from about 44 miles away. I can also pick up the ION TV affiliate. They all come in with a strong, clear picture and great stereo sound with absolutely no breaking up. About the only network I can’t get is FOX. No great loss. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/19 "2014-10-10T04:09:52Z")
> [@missred](#): > > No great loss. 🙂 Except I would have loved to have seen the Simpsons/Family Guy crossover. And Gotham. ---
**Author:** ![FeAudrey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FeAudrey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FeAudrey)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869/20 "2014-10-10T20:37:53Z")
A sub-channel that some PBS stations carry is MHz: [http://www.mhznetworks.org/mhz-worldview/carriage](http://www.mhznetworks.org/mhz-worldview/carriage) International newscasts (and occasional sports events) during the day (mostly produced for English-speaking viewers): > **[MHz Networks Homepage](https://mhznetworks.com/)** > > MHz Networks is a global media company, which specializes in presenting the world's best programming to American and Canadian audiences. International mysteries at night (the actual stuff that the Scandinavians, Italians, French, and Germans watch, sub-titled and with nudity and extreme gore pixilated): [http://www.mhznetworks.org/programs/mystery-drama](http://www.mhznetworks.org/programs/mystery-drama) The pages linked to don’t even show everything that is on the schedule. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-non-cable-tv/700869.md?page=2)