# Tell Me About Small Claims Court **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [June 23, 2013, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716 "2013-06-23T18:23:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/42 "2013-06-25T23:24:56Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Umm, other than making you happy, and spending some time & money, what use is it? I spoke to my lawyer (we are in the same club) and he said (this is CA law, now, mind you) that for all intents and purposes, you already have a judgment. \*Which they aren’t paying. \* Why do you want another judgment they wont pay? Because, unlike California, I have been told that in THIS state there is the possibility of wage garnishment, leins against property, and other remedies as a possibility. I am trying to confirm whether or not that is true and if there are any other remedies as a possibility. Really, I find your attitude that the little people can’t afford justice and shouldn’t even bother to try rather appalling. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/43 "2013-06-25T23:28:45Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > A point for our OP to ponder: You do not need to send demand letters before instituting a suit. You can go to court directly. I am aware of that. I really do intend to consult with a lawyer about my options prior to making another move. > [@](#): > > I’m not going to give advice on how to do that, but I will make the very limited observation that your former employer very likely already knows what’s up (or has been attempted to be contacted by the State of Indiana without response). Oh, definitely they have been contacted by the state. The BoL stated that would contact the other party as part of their investigation. It’s also been confirmed via another route, and of course they, too, were notified of the judgement when told their deadline to get me a check was June 24. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/44 "2013-06-25T23:35:52Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I am aware of that. I really do intend to consult with a lawyer about my options prior to making another move. Only you can judge your comfort level and competence level as far as representing yourself pro se. I do not know the facts and circumstances of your case (nor do I want to know them), but wage and hours claims generally are not areas where there’s significant legal ambiguity or complex factual disputes. Some people do represent themselves pro se. Those people, of course, have to figure out how to accomplish service, pay filing fees, research whether they can seek the costs of filing suit as part of their prayer for relief (or decide just not to seek that), etc. So, again, I can’t make the decision as to whether this is something within your abilities/comfort level (I don’t even know you, I couldn’t even begin to make that assessment). But as a general fact about small claims court, there are plenty of pro se plaintiffs, and they don’t always lose. A lawyer can be helpful, but there is a cost/benefit analysis there. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/45 "2013-06-25T23:39:27Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Because, unlike California, I have been told that in THIS state there is the possibility of wage garnishment, leins against property, and other remedies as a possibility. I am trying to confirm whether or not that is true and if there are any other remedies as a possibility. > > Really, I find your attitude that the little people can’t afford justice and shouldn’t even bother to try rather appalling. Yes, and that would be good, if true. Huh-wah? 😕:eek: I am entirely on your side here. They owe, legally and morally. The problem is that _they won’t pay_. And it’s really difficult and expensive to get a entity to pay if it simply refuses. Oh, might as well file a complaint with the BBB. They dont do much, but it’s something. And of course public shaming on Yelp or whatever you have out there. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/46 "2013-06-26T00:08:57Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Because, unlike California, I have been told that in THIS state there is the possibility of wage garnishment, leins against property, and other remedies as a possibility. I am trying to confirm whether or not that is true and if there are any other remedies as a possibility. That’s possible in NY also. But in NY there will be fees and expenses regardless of success , the marshal can require payment in advance and the marshal will not search for employment or assets-the person with the judgement must have give the information to the marshal. I would look into what’s required to collect the judgement- it’s one thing if you already know where the debtor works/owns property and the fees total $100 - it might be another if you need to find about employment/assets on your own or if the fee is $500. ---
**Author:** ![Bumbershoot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bumbershoot/32/3428_2.png) [@Bumbershoot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bumbershoot)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/47 "2013-06-26T00:12:28Z")
**Broomstick,** you’ve probably already been to the [Judicial Branch of Indiana](http://www.in.gov/judiciary/2710.htm) website; I’m linking to it in case you haven’t. There you will find a link to the [Indiana Small Claims Manual](http://www.in.gov/judiciary/files/small-claims-manual.pdf) (PDF). The manual says you can go after wages or property. From page 17 of the manual: > [@](#): > > Your judgment will be recorded (i.e., entered and indexed) in the judgment docket of this county. At the time you judgment is recorded it becomes a lien on any real property owned by the debtor in this county now or in the future. For your judgment to be a lien on real property in another county in this state it must be recorded in that county. Regarding garnishment (from page 19): > [@](#): > > - The law limits the amount of garnishment and regulates the kinds of income that can be garnished. Only one garnishment can be applied at one time; it is important to “get in line” because garnishment orders are paid in the order that they are received by the employer. It will take more trips to court and more paperwork, but it can be done. Regarding attorney fees (from page 6): > [@](#): > > If you hire an attorney, you probably will not be able to get attorney’s fees as part of any judgment. Exceptions to this rule do exist, such as when a written agreement calls for the payment of attorney’s fees or in the case of a bad check. You said you already got one bad check so you may be able to recover your attorney fees. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/48 "2013-06-26T00:32:41Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Oh, might as well file a complaint with the BBB. They dont do much, but it’s something. And of course public shaming on Yelp or whatever you have out there. I have definitely considered that as well. I just want to be sure that I do so in a legal manner that does not leave me open to accusations of libel or slander down the line. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/49 "2013-06-26T02:39:03Z")
> [@Bumbershoot](#): > > Regarding attorney fees (from page 6): > > You said you already got one bad check so you may be able to recover your attorney fees. I might also check out Ind. Code § 22-2-5-2. > [@](#): > > **Failure to pay; damages; actions for recovery** > Sec. 2. Every such person, firm, corporation, limited liability company, or association who shall fail to make payment of wages to any such employee as provided in section 1 of this chapter shall, as liquidated damages for such failure, pay to such employee for each day that the amount due to him remains unpaid ten percent (10%) of the amount due to him in addition thereto, not exceeding double the amount of wages due, and said damages may be recovered in any court having jurisdiction of a suit to recover the amount due to such employee, and in any suit so brought to recover said wages or the liquidated damages for nonpayment thereof, or both, the court shall tax and assess as costs in said case a reasonable fee for the plaintiff’s attorney or attorneys. Further to the issue of costs, I would note that the Indiana courts will entertain [Motions for Fee Waivers](http://www.in.gov/judiciary/selfservice/2337.htm) to waive the filing fees of qualifying litigants. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/50 "2013-06-26T02:39:03Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > For those of you who aren’t familiar with the Broomstick Saga, in mid-March an employer stopped paying me. Being patient to a remarkable degree, I didn’t immediately quit but stayed on a bit hoping things could be straightened out. That didn’t happen, and I subsequently got a job doing the same thing but working for someone who does, in fact, pay his employees. Yay. > > That still left $1,626.75 still owed to me by my former employer. I think, perhaps, the owners though I would walk away from that. Ha. > > After attempts to contact them were fruitless I contacted the Indiana Board of Labor and submitted my side of the story, and they have since decreed that, yup, the former employers DO, in fact, owe me $1,626.75 and gave them until June 24 (Monday, that is, tomorrow as I write this) to issue me a check. A good check, not like that rubber one they gave me last time. > > I’m more than a bit doubtful this will happen. Hence, this thread. > > **TL:DR - I anticipate taking these yahoos to small claims court next.** > > I’ve never taken anyone to court of any kind. While none of you are my lawyer, and if I feel a need for actual legal advice I’ll go find a lawyer in real life (and yes, I know, you don’t bring a lawyer to small claims), I wouldn’t mind hearing from folks with some experience in these matters. Anecdotes, general advice, whatever. As noted, the state is Indiana, in the US, and the sum is $1,626.75 What should I know? > > Oh, and if that’s too grand a sum for small claims where do I go next? I’m an employment attorney and if you were my client I’d advise you to forget small claims court court and take them to regular court. If you go to small claims you will be selling yourself short. Under the [FLSA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Labor_Standards_Act) and, likely under Indiana law as well (though I am assuming here), you can recover double damages, attorney’s fees, and pre-judgment interest. You can also throw in unfair trade practices claims and things like that that will expose the employer to additional damages. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/51 "2013-06-26T02:56:55Z")
> [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > I’m an employment attorney and if you were my client I’d advise you to forget small claims court court and take them to regular court. If you go to small claims you will be selling yourself short. Under the [FLSA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Labor_Standards_Act) and, likely under Indiana law as well (though I am assuming here), you can recover double damages, attorney’s fees, and pre-judgment interest. You can also throw in unfair trade practices claims and things like that that will expose the employer to additional damages. This is why attorneys should be a little careful about what they _would_ advise if one _were_ their client. (Does the Bar Association ever think in the subjunctive mood?) FLSA has a jurisdictional hook, no? The employer must be engaged in interstate commerce in order to be subject to this federal employment law. In general, that requires a showing of doing a half-million in annual revenue. But one can also show, albeit with a more fact-intensive offer of proof, that the employer is engaged in interstate commerce despite not meeting this revenue requirement. So if one worked at a very small, employer-and-one-employee shop selling handicrafts, FLSA might not cover that employee (or it might!). I’m not sure we should be offering that kind of guidance here. Although it would be fair to point out that there are two sources of employment law that may be implicated, and omission of any in a lawsuit may bar recovery under the omitted causes of action in the future. This is something the OP will need to think about in formulating her strategy for proceeding. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 10:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/52 "2013-06-26T10:23:18Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I would look into what’s required to collect the judgement- it’s one thing if you already know where the debtor works/owns property and the fees total $100 - it might be another if you need to find about employment/assets on your own or if the fee is $500. Actually, if spending $500 got me a net gain of $1,100 I’d go for it. I would, of course, prefer a net gain of $1,500 but if I do nothing I get nothing, which is a net gain of $0. > [@MichaelQReilly](#): > > I’m an employment attorney and if you were my client I’d advise you to forget small claims court court and take them to regular court. If you go to small claims you will be selling yourself short. Under the [FLSA](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fair_Labor_Standards_Act) and, likely under Indiana law as well (though I am assuming here), you can recover double damages, attorney’s fees, and pre-judgment interest. You can also throw in unfair trade practices claims and things like that that will expose the employer to additional damages. Except regular court will cost me much more upfront before I can recover any money, and my financial means are sharply limited. Indeed, one of the reasons for SSC is to make courts more accessible to those without large financial resources. Regular court will also probably take a lot longer. In addition, Indiana law allows SCC to award up to triple damages as well as costs in wage claim cases provided the claim does not exceed a certain amount. I have already been told by the BoL that my claim falls inside the required limits for that. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/53 "2013-06-26T10:35:17Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Actually, if spending $500 got me a net gain of $1,100 I’d go for it. I would, of course, prefer a net gain of $1,500 but if I do nothing I get nothing, which is a net gain of $0. Of course,but what about if it’s a $500 fee paid in advance that isn’t refunded so there’s a possibility of a net loss of $500 if the collection is unsuccessful? Or if you will need to provide information that you don’t currently have? Or both? All I’m saying is that is not enough to know that it’s possible to enforce the judgement - it may be possible but still not worth it ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2013, 11:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/54 "2013-06-26T11:27:41Z")
Well, yeah, I knew that already. On the other hand there is such a thing as taking a calculated risk. Right now your “you might not be able to collect!” is pure speculation, neither you nor I know how likely that is right now. ---
**Author:** ![MichaelQReilly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@MichaelQReilly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelQReilly)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2013, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/55 "2013-06-27T01:18:33Z")
> [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](#): > > This is why attorneys should be a little careful about what they _would_ advise if one _were_ their client. (Does the Bar Association ever think in the subjunctive mood?) > > FLSA has a jurisdictional hook, no? The employer must be engaged in interstate commerce in order to be subject to this federal employment law. In general, that requires a showing of doing a half-million in annual revenue. But one can also show, albeit with a more fact-intensive offer of proof, that the employer is engaged in interstate commerce despite not meeting this revenue requirement. So if one worked at a very small, employer-and-one-employee shop selling handicrafts, FLSA might not cover that employee (or it might!). > > I’m not sure we should be offering that kind of guidance here. Although it would be fair to point out that there are two sources of employment law that may be implicated, and omission of any in a lawsuit may bar recovery under the omitted causes of action in the future. This is something the OP will need to think about in formulating her strategy for proceeding. Clearly she is not my client. That is just my .02. I simply wanted to emphasize that it might be worth exploring the issue. ---
**Author:** ![codgerone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@codgerone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/codgerone)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/56 "2013-06-28T04:36:50Z")
I’ve taken a couple of people to SCC and been successful both times. I’m in the UK so things may be a bit different but in my experience it was simple, pretty informal and efficient. In addition to all my documentation I typed out a brief summary of the case, just a couple of paragraphs so the judge could quickly get the gist of the problem. I’m sure this helped, especially as in both of my cases the defendant wasn’t nearly as well prepared as I was. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/57 "2013-09-02T18:22:51Z")
Just a quick update: I did wind up hiring a lawyer. I selected one licensed to practice in both Indiana and Illinois, with experience in wage claim cases and collections. I was able to negotiate what I felt was a reasonable and affordable fee and he has been very understanding about my financial concerns. He wrote what I call a Scary Lawyer Letter and we got $500 out of them. And the check cleared. Unfortunately, recent communications make it clear the owner has absolutely no further intentions of paying me and is trying to scare my lawyer off (essentially said “your client is a liar” and a few other uncharitable things). As she still owes me more than $1,000 I’ve decided to proceed to lawsuit. I’ve already done quite a bit of investigative legwork on my own and the lawyer continues to act more as a legal adviser than anything else. As we are now moving to a lawsuit phase I probably shouldn’t discuss any details further but I’ll probably post updates if it seems appropriate. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/58 "2013-09-02T21:04:23Z")
AS this is a business, can you not institute bankruptcy proceedings? Or has the $500 payout dropped you below the limit for that? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2013, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/59 "2013-09-02T23:58:00Z")
How could I possibly institute bankruptcy on a business I don’t own? Why would I want to do that, anyway? Once they go bankrupt there will be no more money coming in, and I can’t collect what they don’t have. I want my money _before_ they go bankrupt. ---
**Author:** ![PaulParkhead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7ea924/32.png) [@PaulParkhead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PaulParkhead)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/60 "2013-09-03T00:44:50Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > How could I possibly institute bankruptcy on a business I don’t own? > > Why would I want to do that, anyway? Once they go bankrupt there will be no more money coming in, and I can’t collect what they don’t have. I want my money _before_ they go bankrupt. I think the poster is in the UK, where it is indeed possible for a creditor to request that the courts declare a debtor bankrupt. The advantage to the creditor is that assets of the business or individual can be taken and used to repay the debt. Of course, that may not be the law where you are. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716/61 "2013-09-03T01:28:00Z")
No, the law is a little different here. Here you tap the company’s assets without forcing them into bankruptcy. Under the right circumstances I can tap the debtor’s personal assets without forcing her into bankruptcy. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-small-claims-court/661716.md?page=4)