# Tell me about the art of negotiation for consumers **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 22, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-art-of-negotiation-for-consumers/533342 "2010-03-22T15:22:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![snowmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e99b99/32.png) [@snowmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowmaster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-art-of-negotiation-for-consumers/533342/1 "2010-03-22T15:22:17Z")
Do you sell to the public, or as a customer, have you bought things traditionally negotiated for price? Specifically, looking for advice or experience on how you get the best price, from either side of the table, based on your mad negotiating skillz, anecdotes too. Not so much for B2B or, hey I got this awesome deal wihout really trying beacuse of X unusual circumstance. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-art-of-negotiation-for-consumers/533342/2 "2010-03-22T15:35:41Z")
Know the product before you purchase it. Know the cost of the product, know as much as you possibly can. My advice about cars, from another thread. > [@What's the other side of 0% auto financing?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-other-side-of-0-auto-financing/531629/15): > > **@OP** > Now, I’m going to give you advice from the side of someone who has been in the car business his entire life, literally, and still is. > First, Toyota is offering 0% **not** 0% of $2000. This is because $2000 in cash diminishes resell value, not that that fact is particularly relevant to this conversation. That means that it’s not 0% at the expense of other deals. Toyota only offers cash incentives to recent graduates (+/- 6 months from graduation date) of College. > > Second, as has been said before – Negotiate based on Price of the car first. > As a tip, MSRP is nothing close to invoice on a car. In fact, don’t even trust the Invoice if the dealer shows it to you, he pays 3% less than that (this is called “holdback”) unless he purchases it from a Broker. > > If you want the best possible price on a car, your first step is emailing **every single local dealership of that brand** and say the following, quite simply. > > I’m in the market for a new XXX vehicle. I want YYY feature package. Quote me your best price. Include all possible incentives, whether to the dealer or to the customer. I’d like an out the door cost, so include Documentation, Licensing and Title fees. I have no need for any additions to the car, I’d like it as it comes from the factory, with no after market equipment. > > If your price is suitable, I will be in for delivery within the next 48 hours. > > Use that as your email, and you’ll get responses, most of the first responses (if they’re following proper procedures) will be along the lines of “We don’t quote prices online, but come on in and we’ll talk…” > > Reply to that with: > > Quote me a price on XXX, with feature package YYY and I will be in for delivery if it’s suitable. If it is not, or you do not wish to quote a price, our discussions are over. > > Chances are, one of the dealerships will quote you a price at, or just above invoice. They’ll give it all away if you start up front stating exactly what you want. Once you have your price, you have all the power, because you can phone the local dealerships and ask them if they want to beat it or not. Sometimes, one will, sometimes not. > > Using the above method, you’re a complete pain in the ass for people like me. It’s my job to get you to pay full MSRP for a car, and take **all** of the addendum packages (nitrogen filled wheels, running boards, mud guards, etc) with a happy smile. > > I never lie, and I never obfuscate the truth. I just reenforce the fact that you don’t like your old car, and you really like your new car (it’s already yours, you said you loved it.), so there’s really no need to worry about all the extra stuff we’re giving you in the price. I mean, you do want your paint to be in good condition in a year, not all scratched up from rocks, right? > [@What's the other side of 0% auto financing?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whats-the-other-side-of-0-auto-financing/531629/17): > > You’re not an active pain, more of an annoyance. > > But, in reality, I don’t have a problem with that because I’m fine with getting my unit bonuses higher. There’s a reason that I outsold all of the other salesman when I worked the floor. I wasn’t afraid to take small deals, if the money wasn’t there to make. > Sales payplans, at good stores, typically work off of a percentage that bumps as you sell more cars. So you might get 10% F/B (Front and Back, front is how much above cost and pack – pack is how much the dealership marks it up on their books, so they don’t have to pay commission on it – back is finance) at or below 10 cars, 15% from 11-15 cars, 20% from 16-20 cars and 25% at 20 cars or above (that’s actually a really weird payplan, but you get the idea). > > Keep in mind, that’s not 10-15-20-25% of the cost of the car, that’s of the profit on the car (above built-in expenses). > I got the big grosses out of customers, when I could… but when I couldn’t, I wouldn’t let the managers pass on minis. > ETA: And I was all over incoming phone and emails, and I’d take crap deals that didn’t require work, just for the reasons you mentioned. It was beneficial to me and the dealership. Dealerships wont tell you this, but based on the number of cars they sell, they get more cash per car from the factory. > > That means if they’re 1 car away from their tier bonus, it pays for them to lose money selling you a car. at 40 Accords in a month, they might get 200 Dealer Cash per accord, at 41, they might get 300. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-art-of-negotiation-for-consumers/533342/3 "2010-03-22T20:16:00Z")
The best situation to be in as a consumer from a bargaining standpoint is 1) to not feel an overwhelming need to buy an item right away, and 2) be willing to walk away if you don’t get the price you want. This has worked pretty well for buying cars and a few other things. I love the auto dealer tactic of earnestly asking you "Are you planning to buy a car _TODAY_? (is the idea that if you show desperation they’ll give you a great deal, or maybe to make you feel guilty for wasting their time if you’re not highly anxious to buy?). I’ve always been tempted to reply “Christ YES! Whatever you do, don’t let me leave here without a car! Any car! SELL ME A FRIGGING VEHICLE!!!” They’d put me on a list though. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![snowmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e99b99/32.png) [@snowmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowmaster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-art-of-negotiation-for-consumers/533342/4 "2010-03-22T20:57:07Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I love the auto dealer tactic of earnestly asking you "Are you planning to buy a car _TODAY_? I’ve heard that, but when it’s tactful I appreciate it. I’ve been asked in a calm manner, “If we meet your expectations and come to a fair price, is there any reason we couldn’t make a deal today?” I like it because: There’s a qualifier in there, I don’t like their offer I haven’t agreed to anything for the salesman to hold against me later. Its an offer to set fair expectations with the salesman: Yes, I’ve done my research and looking to see if you’ll give me a good enough price or, no, I need to come back with my spouse, I haven’t done any of the research I need to negotiate with you, etc. Also, saying no, I’m not ready to make a deal today opens you up to looking and getting the, “OK, now that we’ve looked around and talked a bit, is there anything we CAN do to earn your business today?” At which point if alls going well, I just might tell them, “Well, I’m not really planning to close today, but if you’re really desparate to get this done today and offered X price with Y and Z ad-ons/perks/whatever it’d be pretty hard to say no.” FWIW, I’m interested in anecdotes or advice outside the automotive world as well. ---
**Author:** ![snowmaster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e99b99/32.png) [@snowmaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowmaster)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-art-of-negotiation-for-consumers/533342/5 "2010-03-22T21:02:14Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > or maybe to make you feel guilty for wasting their time if you’re not highly anxious to buy Sorry, had to add: My last dealership experience was like this. Called and got the sales manager. Aparently, they’re the only ones who can answer calls. Told him what I wanted, he made my trade-in sound pretty valuable, I asked for a price on anew car and he said it’s on the website. I say okay, but I have you on the phone, can you tell me? He refers me again to the website. Seemed constantly annoyed with me like he was trying to end the call as soon as possible. Needless to say, as soon as we walked in the door, they started lowering expectations immediately. ---
**Author:** ![Disheavel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Disheavel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disheavel)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-art-of-negotiation-for-consumers/533342/6 "2010-03-22T21:33:27Z")
Todderbob’s recommendations are right on. You tell them by doing things like that, “I am already sold on what you have in stock, the only question is: Are you going to be able to give me the best deal?” It works on houses and electronics too. I have my checkbook (mortgage preapproval and I’m putting down 40% in cash) right here- I want that TV and will walk out the door in two minutes with or without it. Stick to your maximum and don’t bend. Also, always tell them the price you want to pay and don’t let them point to a price first. If you say your price first, you tell them that you know what you are talking about. Bidding at auctions requires a similar mindset, "I am not going a penny over $500 no matter what. " ---
**Author:** ![Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8edcca/32.png) [@Superfluous\_Parentheses](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superfluous_Parentheses)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-art-of-negotiation-for-consumers/533342/7 "2010-03-22T21:43:08Z")
I don’t usually buy expensive items, but for furniture and stuff over a 100 euros or so (and when it’s not in some chain store that just doesn’t do discounts) I always ask if they can knock something off the price. Especially if you’re going to buy more than one item, IME it’s usually trivial to get 10% off without any more haggling than “I’d like to get two of those, if you can get me better price than 2 x [price of one item]”. ---
**Author:** ![Todderbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@Todderbob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Todderbob)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2010, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-art-of-negotiation-for-consumers/533342/8 "2010-03-22T22:00:37Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > The best situation to be in as a consumer from a bargaining standpoint is 1) to not feel an overwhelming need to buy an item right away, and 2) be willing to walk away if you don’t get the price you want. > > This has worked pretty well for buying cars and a few other things. > > I love the auto dealer tactic of earnestly asking you "Are you planning to buy a car _TODAY_? (is the idea that if you show desperation they’ll give you a great deal, or maybe to make you feel guilty for wasting their time if you’re not highly anxious to buy?). > > I’ve always been tempted to reply “Christ YES! Whatever you do, don’t let me leave here without a car! Any car! SELL ME A FRIGGING VEHICLE!!!” > > They’d put me on a list though. ☹ Actually, “Are you buying a car today?” is a statement that I’ve always been drilled not to say, and as such recommend be drill out of trainees. “Are you buying a car today?” Puts them on the spot to affirmatively take ownership of a vehicle, right then and there. You almost always scare them off by doing that. And, if you don’t, you’ve got a pushover anyway, so there’s no reason to ask that question. The usual qualifier I use, to judge interest is, “I know you’re a smart guy, you’ve been looking a cars for some time… would you say it’s been closer to 3 or 4 days, or 3 or 4 weeks you’ve been looking at cars now?” They usually, regardless of how long they’ve been looking, say “3 to 4 weeks,” this sets up a “Well, you’ve been looking for almost a month, and you said you haven’t found a car you like nearly as much as this one\*, and you said the price is reasonable… sign here and take it home right now.” (Notice how it’s not a question?) \*the other part of this close is another part of the sales process. > [@snowmaster](#): > > I’ve heard that, but when it’s tactful I appreciate it. I’ve been asked in a calm manner, “If we meet your expectations and come to a fair price, is there any reason we couldn’t make a deal today?” **IT’S A TRAP! IT’S A TRAP!** A good, trap, mind you, but a trap no less. It’s one I’ve used frequently. > [@snowmaster](#): > > I like it because: > There’s a qualifier in there, I don’t like their offer I haven’t agreed to anything for the salesman to hold against me later. The qualifier is actually to their benefit, not yours. It allows them to give you wiggle room, if you say _“No,”_ and figure out how to overcome those objections. “No, my wife needs to see it first.” “Well, lets go on a test drive and show it to her!” “No, I don’t have auto financing.” “If we can arrange favorable auto financing, then you’ll take it home today, right!?” etc, etc, etc. It allows them to overcome your objection, that you didn’t know you were telling them you had. > [@snowmaster](#): > > Its an offer to set fair expectations with the salesman: Yes, I’ve done my research and looking to see if you’ll give me a good enough price or, no, I need to come back with my spouse, I haven’t done any of the research I need to negotiate with you, etc. > Also, saying no, I’m not ready to make a deal today opens you up to looking and getting the, “OK, now that we’ve looked around and talked a bit, is there anything we CAN do to earn your business today?” At which point if alls going well, I just might tell them, “Well, I’m not really planning to close today, but if you’re really desparate to get this done today and offered X price with Y and Z ad-ons/perks/whatever it’d be pretty hard to say no.” You’re smart, and that sounds like a good tactic which works well if you’re adamant. But against a skill, well trained salesman, you’re playing into their hands. Don’t worry, you’re not likely to encounter many of them… but if you do, you’ll never know it. (Until you go to trade in your car.) > [@snowmaster](#): > > FWIW, I’m interested in anecdotes or advice outside the automotive world as well. Sorry, I can’t give you anecdotes outside of the automotive industry. All of the housing decisions I’ve ever been involved in have been rental… although I’ve noticed that cash-in-hand does tend to lower the price. Signing a lease for 6 months, payed up front, typically drops your rates from 5% to 10%. Especially in an economy like this one.