# Tell me about the science of album sorting **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** music\ **Created:** [March 25, 2022, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715 "2022-03-25T19:34:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2022, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/21 "2022-03-26T15:43:41Z")
Another one that surprised me was that the Guess Who had two different Greatest Hits albums. [One](https://www.amazon.com/Best-Guess-Who-GUESS-WHO/dp/B07LFMVLXS/ref=asc_df_B07LFMVLXS/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=257000067026&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=4780571674817603074&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9026937&hvtargid=pla-631855772540&psc=1) had: Tracklist: Side A: 1. These Eyes 2. Laughing 3. Undun 4. No Time 5. American Woman 6. No Sugar Tonight/New Mother Nature. Side B: 1. Hand Me Down World 2. Bus Rider 3. Share the Land 4. Do You Miss Me Darlin’ 5. Hang On To Your Life. [The other](https://www.discogs.com/master/237415-The-Guess-Who-The-Greatest-Of-The-Guess-Who): These Eyes, Laughing, Undun, No Time, American Woman (matches so far) Then: Hand Me Down World Well that was on the first one but not at that position. Then… Star Baby, Clap For The Wolfman, Dancin’ Fool, Glamour Boy, Albert Flasher, When The Band Was Singin’ “Shakin’ All Over” ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/22 "2022-03-26T16:07:38Z")
I agree it’s much more of an art than a science. It stands out a lot when they seem to get it wrong. There are a few songs from albums that I tend to dislike if I listen to it following a particular song that precedes it on the album. However, if I hear that song out of the blue elsewhere I really like it. Like following an upbeat song with another upbeat song with a slower tempo. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2022, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/23 "2022-03-26T16:16:43Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > When albums have been released in different mediums (e.g. LP vs cassette vs CD), sometimes some versions would have extra songs (bonus tracks). These would most often appear at the end, but not always, and it could be disconcerting to be listening to a familiar album and have a song come on that you don’t expect. Just thought of one amusing sort-of-example, from Tom Petty’s _Full Moon Fever_ CD: [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Tf5XgkG0JfI/hqdefault.jpg "Tom Petty Hello CD Listeners...") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf5XgkG0JfI) ---
**Author:** ![lobotomyboy63](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobotomyboy63/32/2900_2.png) [@lobotomyboy63](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lobotomyboy63)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2022, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/24 "2022-03-26T16:38:54Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > When albums have been released in different mediums (e.g. LP vs cassette vs CD), sometimes some versions would have extra songs (bonus tracks). I remember that…they’d try to lure you into buying a cassette by tacking on more. I guess too we could note that difference between British Beatles albums and American versions. > **[The Beatles: U.S. vs. U.K. Album Guide](https://ultimateclassicrock.com/beatles-us-uk-album-guide/)** > > A guide to the differences between the Beatles' U.K. and U.S. studio albums. PS I used to make mix tapes, so I had multiple lists in my head. If song 1 on the tape is American Pie, will Till Tomorrow be next, or is this the mix tape where I recorded Carly Simon’s “Anticipation” next? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2022, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/25 "2022-03-26T16:56:07Z")
Back when I was in university and buying albums (note: I was in Japan and buying Japanese albums, principally), I noticed that the best songs on an album always seemed to be (if I remember correctly) numbers 1, 4, 11, and 14. No idea why and possible confirmation bias. I would have to fish up my old CDs and do a proper tally to verify. ---
**Author:** ![california\_jobcase](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@california\_jobcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/california_jobcase)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2022, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/26 "2022-03-26T17:06:50Z")
> [@lobotomyboy63](#): > > I guess too we could note that difference between British Beatles albums and American versions. I used to have several Beatles 8-tracks. I still have Sgt. Pepper on that medium, and its LP was the same on both sides of the pond. All of the tapes had the songs in a different order from the LPs. I remember reading that this was to avoid the track changing in the middle of a song. I really hated when a song would change tracks right in the middle. Everybody had 8-track players, but I only had one friend who had an 8-track recorder. I used it to record The Cars’ first album over a Kansas album I had gotten sick of. It sounded great and the track changes in a song were almost unnoticeable- just a click. Why didn’t the record companies do it that way? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2022, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/27 "2022-03-26T19:44:22Z")
I don’t have a cite for this, but at some point I read something about the Stones working on the track order back in the '60s or early '70s, and it was mentioned that the position on the vinyl (closer or further from the center) affected sound quality and thus the song they wanted in a specific position. Not true these days. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/28 "2022-03-26T21:07:10Z")
> [@Mean\_Mr.Mustard](#): > > The gold standard for song ordering, to me, is the Beatles Abbey Road medley. I couldn’t imagine those songs in any other order. Just got a turntable and that was the first LP I bought, for that very reason. With vinyl, you almost have\* to listen to it in order. . \*except for the “Motorcycle Mama” rule, where you get to skip a track if it doesn’t fit in with the rest of the album… ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/29 "2022-03-27T01:37:54Z")
A friend of mine’s aunt, who’s recorded several albums and was up for a Juno Award once, answered the question. Here’s what she said: “The artist usually decides that. Sometimes in conjunction with an [Artist and Repertoire] rep or the label. (The person who helps you find songs if you need them or pair you with other artists to write/work with.)” ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/30 "2022-03-27T01:59:33Z")
You’d think the one case where the label wouldn’t alter the song order between different media would be a rock opera. You’d be wrong… I have The Who’s Tommy on cassette. Side 1 starts with “It’s A Boy”. Side 2 ends with “We’re Not Gonna Take It” followed by “Overture”. I guess it evens out the side lengths, and if you had an auto-reverse cassette deck you could set it up to play correctly. ---
**Author:** ![ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chockfullofheadygoodness/32/511_2.png) [@ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChockFullOfHeadyGoodness)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/31 "2022-03-27T02:08:27Z")
> [@california\_jobcase](#): > > I still have Sgt. Pepper on that medium, and its LP was the same on both sides of the pond. Almost. (nitpick to follow). The “we’ll f\*\*\* you like Superman” run-out groove was not on the US release. It first showed up in the US on the 1980 _Rarities_ compilation. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/32 "2022-03-27T02:46:39Z")
The American copy of Sgt Pepper I bought when I was 15 in 1978 had the runout track. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/33 "2022-03-27T03:16:39Z")
Oh, those cheeky scamps. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/34 "2022-03-27T03:50:46Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I noticed that the best songs on an album always seemed to be (if I remember correctly) numbers 1, 4, 11, and 14. That’s interesting. The latter two are pretty darned deep into an album. I’ve found the 7th song to be often quite strong, but typically it’s either #1 or #2 (depending on whether the album is choosing to start with a BIG song right up front, like “Good Times Bad Times” by Led Zeppelin; or if it’s starting with a slow “mood setter” to ease into the album, like, say, “Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (instrumental)” before leading into the big number “Tonight, Tonight” by the Smashing Pumpkins.) Then, yeah, usually #4 is a solid track, but it could be #3 or #5. Taking an album at random, the first Pretenders album, we have “Precious” #1, “Tatooed Love Boys” #4, “Stop Your Sobbing” #7. Pixies _Doolittle_ we have the title track at #1, “I Bleed” #4 (“Here Comes Your Man” is #5, the stronger single), and “This Monkey’s Gone to Heaven” #7. Typically, the arc of songs I encounter on rock albums tends to be, as I said above, a “grab your attention” opener or quiet, mood setter, followed by another rocker, then a mid-tempo powerful song, a bit of a slowdown for the next couple songs, then ramp up the energy again for a bit, and level out and ease off at the end. That’s just a very general formula with many, many exceptions. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/35 "2022-03-27T04:01:04Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I noticed that the best songs on an album always seemed to be (if I remember correctly) numbers 1, 4, 11, and 14. Applying this logic to my favorite non-Disney movie soundtrack, the _Batman Forever_ album, those songs are “Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me” by U2; “Kiss from a Rose” by Seal; “The Passenger” by Michael Hutchence; and the last track on the album, “Bad Days” by “The Flaming Lips”. Four of my five favorite songs on the album, the fifth being “The Hunter Gets Captured by the Game” by Massive Attack and Tracey Thorn, which was track 5. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/36 "2022-03-27T04:10:16Z")
Soundtrack albums, I think, are a bit of an oddity, as (almost) every song is going to be a pretty strong track, for the most part. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/37 "2022-03-27T15:49:18Z")
I’ve been on a few records. As mentioned before, it’s usually the artist that picks the final track order. Methods of determining what goes where vary. To add a little more info, the track order is determined at the mastering stage. At that point you’ve mixed all of the individual instruments down to (generally) two stereo tracks. When you send it to the person doing the mastering, you tell them the order you want them in. While they’re setting reasonable eq/compression and making sure the tracks are all roughly at the same volume, they’ll transfer them in order to a single track for side A and another for side B. At least, that’s how it goes in the days of digital mastering. I’ve never done a recording that was tape all the way to the pressing plant. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/38 "2022-03-27T20:43:15Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > for side A and another for side B. I’m confused. Side A and Side B of what? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/39 "2022-03-27T20:48:08Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’m confused. Side A and Side B of what? You know, like how you have to flip your iPhone over after “Mr. Kite” is done to hear “Within You Without You”. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715/40 "2022-03-27T20:54:39Z")
Heheh, a record or a tape. Nobody makes CDs anymore. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-about-the-science-of-album-sorting/961715.md?page=3)