Flooding is usually worse around St. Mark’s Square than in the rest of the city so be prepared. Buy a vaporetto pass. Take in the nearby islands of Burano and Murano. You can reach them with the vaporetto.
Oh and take me with you. Please? Pretty please?
We didn’t see any of this. We didn’t even see any beggars. Obviously different people have different experiences, but the OP should know that this is clearly not a constant or all-pervasive thing, since so far other than people who actually lived there it seems I’ve spent the most time in Venice.
Your story sounds like some oblivious fuck had left stuff someone else could only dream of being able to afford unattended, probably while they shouted in their obviously foreign accent and waved their expensive camera/mobile phone/whatever. They weren’t watching their own belongings. You, for some inexplicable reason, were, despite there being so many other things to look at. And “I am much bigger (because I am an American)”? Seriously? Mate, unless you mean fatter and are mocking yourself with the stereotype, you’re really giving a twatfaced impression of yourself here.
I’m finding the lack of interest in art rather depressing in this thread too. It’s reminding me of when we were sitting on the stairs in the Doges’ Palace gazing at the Titian fresco of St Christopher (the one most people miss because the stairs don’t go anywhere). A few people had heard it was there and came in, a few people saw us sitting there and stuck their heads across the threshold to see what we were looking at. Some hideous woman stuck her head in, looked at this amazing fresco, then walked away, remarking in a very loud, very brash American accent, “I don’t know what the hell *they *were looking at”. Maybe if she took more than one day to see each ancient and remarkable city, she’d have time to find out. Depressing.
I hate to tell you, but twattish tourists can be seen of every nationality. The British are hardly innocent of the type of tourist you are describing.
The very problem with Venice is that is caters to the very worst of the “if its tuesday this must be Belgium” coach tour crowd, so much so that it is practically impossible for the nontwattish among us to enjoy it.
yeah, I would agree with this. It’s really a very safe city (though all bets are off during Carnevale). I think the comment was alarmist. Of course it pays to protect your passport and keep an eye on your belongings, but it’s hardly the lawless and terrifying place Shagnasty is making it out to be… “Don’t let people approach you at all because they probably have other motives.” really? I never had any problems and I am pretty clearly not Italian.
I have to admit I got art fatigue when I was living there. There are something like 117 churches in Venice and every one of them has something priceless and ancient in it… a Tintoretto painting on the wall or a Tiziano tucked away in a chapel… eventually my eyes cross and I just can’t look at another glorious Renaissance painting. (Although the Guggenheim is always good for a change of scene.) I like art, but I’m sure I’m not the only one this happens to.
**Hello Again,**I didn’t say that only Americans could be twats, nor indeed that all Americans are twats, before any further misunderstanding occurs. I do my utmost to avoid British tourists when I’m abroad because I find them so embarrassing! My story happened to involve an American, and I mentioned her accent so that people may be able to picture that particularly penetrating voice of the type which really makes an ignorant remark carry. (Maybe it was unfortunate that it was in the same post as me saying that Shagnasty didn’t seem to be doing his nationality any favours on the “we’re not racist or insular at all, no really” front.) But it wasn’t that the woman was being a twat that I meant to illustrate; it was the depressing lack of interest in the beautiful, which makes me wonder why such people actually want to go to the trouble of going all the way to Venice.
Sadly, every person in this thread complaining about how many tourists there are in Venice, was a tourist in Venice themself and contributing to that crowd. As I said before, it’s not that hard to find quiet places/times. You have to give the place a chance to shine through its patina of gawking human crap… which you just can’t achieve in one or two days. You need time to stand still and breathe.
I did remember one thing though; beware of the drunken Australians and New Zealanders. The only problem we had while we were there was a gang of them who followed us through the streets shouting insults and abuse because I’d made an involuntary disgusted noise (I’m emetophobic, so he’s lucky I didn’t get hysterical on him) when one of them fell over and started gagging because he’d drunk so much too much. We saw a few of these gangs, but only tangled with one. Just stay on the other side of the road. Though this advice isn’t exclusive to Venice; we found it in a lot of other places too, including Dubrovnik (which someone mentioned earlier).
I was making fun of myself although I was in really good shape at the time and I really was much bigger than someone who set up a blanket with a few trinkets in the middle of an open area as an excuse to steal luggage or whatever else was available. That happened only a few minutes after arriving in Venice. I am all for cultural differences but Americans aren’t used to petty thievery as much as Europeans are so it is pretty jarring if you don’t know it is a constant threat. That wasn’t the only time either and I was traveling with a group of importer/distributors who travel the globe as their job and we were not naive. Italy in general and even countries like England are known for that sort of thing so I guess it is all relative if you aren’t used to it.
I can’t speak for pickpockets but, when we were in Venice, the main tourist areas were choked with Africans trying to sell counterfeit handbags, belts and crappy poster type things. I’d watch them lay out the posters in everyone’s foot traffic waiting for someone to accidentally step on one of them so they could get up in the guy’s (or just as often woman’s) face and start demanding that they buy it because it was damaged.
The same folks (and scams) were in Florence as well but I didn’t notice it nearly as much as I did in Venice. Occassionally the police would come by, they’d all scoop up their crap and scatter and then come back in ten minutes.
For a casual tourist, I’d recommend at least two full days just in Venice. You could easily spend weeks there and still have things left to see. Although it’s not a terribly large city (growth limited for obvious reasons), every little alleyway leads you to something new, whether it’s a tiny, picturesque square (“campo” rather than “piazza” in the Venetian dialect–the Piazza di San Marco being the one notable exception), a narrow canal bordered by a range of beautiful Gothic palazzi, or a lovely church containing a superb Giovanni Bellini altarpiece or two. It’s true that parts of it are overly crowded with tourists (in almost every season except the depth of winter), but the highest concentration of bodies is in the area between the Rialto and San Marco. Just a few yards outside of this area–even in the high season–and you can find yourself mentally miles away from all the hubbub. And in the early morning, you’ll have even the Piazza di San Marco virtually to yourself.
The “must-sees” in Venice are easy enough to find–San Marco, the Doge’s Palace, the Accademia museum, the Frari church, and maybe the Zanipolo (Giovanni e Paolo) church. You could see all of these within two days, and still have some time for strolling about.
Other churches worth a visit include San Zaccaria (which really DOES contain the most superb Giovanni Bellini altarpiece in the world!), the Salute, San Giorgio Maggiore (have to take a vaparetto to get to this one), and Santa Maria dei Miracoli. If you dig Tintoretto at all, you’ll have to visit the Scuola Grande di San Rocco (very close to the Frari church). The Guggenheim museum has been mentioned–other museums to consider are the Ca Pesaro (mainly 19th and early 20th-century art) and the Correr (a combination cultural history and art museum). Seeing all of these would add at least another day or two to your stay.
The best neighborhoods for aimless strolling (and few tourists) are Cannaregio (northwestern Venice) and Castello (eastern Venice). You’ll find the small (and ever-dwindling) residential population in these areas, but also a number of interesting sights–e.g., the church of Madonna dell’Orto, the Scuola degli Schiavone, etc. These areas also tend to feature the best restaurants–you’ll want to steer away from the tourist traps around San Marco (a good rule of thumb, in Venice and elsewhere, is that if the menu is announced in 10 different languages, the food will be less than spectacular).
Gondola rides are tourist traps, to be sure, but consider taking one of the traghetto-boats–they’re also gondolas, but only serve as ferries across the Grand Canal (at points far between the big bridges). The ride is short–half a minute at the most–and they’re not intended to be romantic (no cushions or anything, and they’ll pack in a dozen people or so), but it only costs something like 50 cents, and can actually cut down a lot of time that might otherwise be spent walking out of the way to get to the Rialto or the Accademia bridge. Plus, there’s something magical about gliding along the Grand Canal in a gondola, even if only briefly.
An excursion to some of the outlying islands is nice, but if your time is limited, I’d suggest skipping them–the vaporetto ride can take a lot of time (and the taxi boats are prohibitively expensive unless you’re wealthy or have a large group of people to split up the fare). If you do have time, then Murano is easy to get to, and besides the ubiquitous glass shops, features a magnificent church–Santa Maria e San Donato, up in the northeast corner of the islands. Don’t miss the “dragon” bones behind the high altar! Torcello has very little to see, but what it has is very beautiful (a Byzantine cathedral), and there’s something magical about being on this remote island, surrounded by trees and far away from all the people in Venice. The vaporetto ride to Torcello takes quite a while, however.
I haven’t had any encounters with pickpockets, but over the past 13 years (since my first visit to Venice in 1996), I’ve noticed a marked increase in the number of African guys selling counterfeit goods. This seems true for most large Italian towns.
Lastly, I have to disagree with Teacake about Verona (though I agree with him otherwise, esp. about the importance of art!). I just visited it for the first time this summer (so maybe my impression would change on another visit), but, although the crowds packed around the “casa di Giulietta” were ridiculous, I didn’t think they were nearly as bad as in Venice. Plus, I thought the old city was absolutely gorgeous, with its cobble-stoned streets, Romanesque churches, and the sweep of the Adige river embracing the town… and the Alps looming on the horizon… I fell utterly in love with the place, and was kicking myself for having skipped it on previous journeys. And I’m not even a big fan of “Romeo and Juliet”!
I definitely plan to return to Verona, myself. But I will admit that you can see the major sights all within one day (they’re all pretty close to one another). There was something about the atmosphere in Verona, especially in the evening, that I found really enchanting, and worth drinking in slowly–for that alone, I’d recommend staying there overnight. Still, if you have to choose, and time is limited, you should probably make Venice your base, and make Verona a daytrip.
Shagnasty’s right about the old Roman arena in Verona–they do still stage events there, most famously their annual opera season (which runs from June-July, I think). I suspect that would be the time NOT to visit Verona, however, unless you’ve made reservations far in advance, as the reasonably-priced hotels would likely fill up quickly.
I stayed at a B&B in the old town that I would highly recommend–the Arena Bed and Breakfast (http://www.arena-bb.it/en/index.htm). Very reasonable rates and huge rooms, including en-suite bathroom.
Oh, and for staying in Venice–just make sure (as others have pointed out) that the hotel is NOT in Mestre. I’d also advise not staying on the Lido–better than Mestre, but pretty remote from Venice itself. Hotels in Venice proper are always a bit pricier, but the cheaper rates at the more distant hotels will be offset by the extra time and money spent getting to Venice by vaporetto and/or bus–so go ahead and find a place in Venice itself, with the knowledge that when you leave the hotel, you’ll already be in the midst of Venice.
For finding your way around Venice, get a decent map. Here’s a huge one (very detailed with street names and monuments) online: http://www.veniceonline.it/Maps/Big%20Map%20Of%20Venice_VeniceOnLine.jpg The last time I visited Venice, I printed out a copy of this (taping together the individual pages!) and it worked really well for me.
Thanks so much for this advice!
Shagnasty, I apologise for jumping to conclusions. It’s interesting to hear that Americans think of Britain as being dangerous (if that’s the right word for a place where you might get your pocket picked). It’s never occurred to me to worry here the way I might in some places.
Götterfunken, I agree with almost everything you say, and on that basis perhaps I should give Verona another chance! I think it suffered from comparison with other places; maybe if I’d *only *gone there I would have felt differently.
Anyway, back to Venice: definitely don’t bother with a gondola. They’re so expensive and really quite pointless. The big canals are crowded, the Grand Canal has too much other traffic, and the smaller and more picturesque canals, you seem to just get caught in a big queue of other gondolas. Hardly romantic to be in a gondola train with seventeen other couples and all the gondoliers shouting to each other! For the same price as we would have paid for less than an hour in a gondola (and I can be definite because we were running badly out of money by the time we got to Venice so my partner’s mother slipped us some readies for the occasion), we got unlimited transport tickets for two days, so we could use the vaporetto, including going out to Burano and Murano. We had a delicious lunch and bought some lace on Burano. We also got a big bag of figs and some other fruit and veg from the Rialto the next day, and breakfast in a market traders’ cafe, and the absolute finest fillet steak dinner I have ever had in my life that evening. So… we were glad we hadn’t spent the money on the gondola!
My fondest memory of Venice was watching the guy repairing the tortellini machine. That and the open door of the upholstery shop. If I’d the opportunity, I’d have passed.
I will recommend Ravenna as a Must-see.
Florence had a LOT to see and I enjoyed it, but there were too many Americans there.
+1 for Ravenna. It’s awe-inspiring.
I loved Venice. My wife was at a conference at the University, so I had the days to myself to wander around museums and workshops - was great to see masks being made.
Definitely go off the beaten track, and if you can, stay in Venice itself, because it’s best at night when the tourists are gone.
We stayed in a little apartment on Calle de la Rasse - I think we found it here, although that one isn’t listed anymore. Easy walk to the Doge’s Palace, St Mark’s etc, but also the opposite direction, which was really nice. Also, the area around the University (Foscari & Ca’Dolfin) was really nice and also under-touristed, with Campo Santa Margherita being particularly pleasant.
Oh yeah, everyone said gondolas were overpriced and a rip-off, but one advantage of being there after the tourists mostly leave - if you catch the gondoliers as they’re closing up, but still looking to make a buck, you can get the most magical trip, by moonlight, down side canals, without anyone else around. No singing, either.
Another vote for Ravenna - very high on my “must get back there soon” list. Perhaps I was lucky, but tourist pressure was low and we managed to find nothing but memorable restaurants.
I’m starting to think that I may need a longer vacation!
Is Ravenna day-trip-able (I just made that word up) from Venice? By train, specifically, since we won’t be renting a car.
Anything in particular in Ravenna one should be looking for?
According to the train schedule, it’s about 2.5 to 3 hours by train from Venice to Ravenna. So I would say, no, not a day trip. Ravenna is chock full of churches from the sixth century (yes, that’s sixth, not sixteenth!) completely covered in amazing mosaics. It was, for a time, the capital of the Western Roman Empire, which is why it has so many early christian churches.
I guess I should have said that it’s possible to do a day-trip, but 5-6 hours on a train seems like a lot to me just to see Ravenna. Of course, you’re going in November, so it’s possible that Venice will be cold and flooded and you may not mind spending 6:30-9:00PM on dark winter’s night on a train. I definitely wouldn’t do it in the summer. On second thought, I could see doing it as a day-trip in the winter.
It depends on where you stay, too. If you’re not paying through the nose for a Venice hotel room, then you may not mind spending a day in not-Venice. I assume the hotels are much cheaper in the winter?
Yeah, that seems long for a day trip. Sounds like a cool place, though!
