The malls we have in our (roughly 15K population) small city are smallish strip malls, which seem to have limited traffic (the only one I visit with any frequency has a decent Chinese food takeout place).
I have spent very little time at any enclosed mall since 2020, so can’t vouch for how busy the big one nearest to me is on weekends and before Xmas. From what I’ve seen on weekdays, there’s plenty of room in the parking lots.
There are three contrasting malls in Los Angeles I visit with any regularity.
The South Bay Galleria seems to be teetering on the brink. It is an “old fashioned” mall in that it is entirely enclosed (albeit with the entire center roof a skylight). It has gone from primarily upscale shops to lots of gaming, escape rooms, VR parlors, etc. The shop below is where the Nordstroms once anchored one end of the mall. I would say that absent major renovations it is 50/50 whether this mall is open in 5 years.
The venerable Del Amo Mall (a Tarantino favorite) is sort of a tale of two malls. The mall is a sprawling complex that was headed downhill until a few years ago when they did a complete reno on the north end, which is now full of people just about every weekend and holiday. However, the south end is still mired in the 90’s and it’s a bit depressing to walk through. My best guess is that the Del Amo is going to survive and perhaps thrive.
North End:
South End:
Then there is the Westfield Century City. Always upscale (one of the first Tesla dealerships was in this mall), it underwent a $1B renovation and re-opened even more upscale (full of shops where if you have to ask the prices, you can’t afford it). Just about every day of the week, if you go there later than lunch time, you’re going to spend some time finding a parking spot. And with the death of the Landmark multi-plex (and the mall it was attached to), the AMC in the mall has become the destination for Oscar-qualifying releases in LA.
It seems to me that the old fashioned, fully enclosed mall is dying in Los Angeles, but upscale, open-air malls are thriving. The survival of any given mall hinges on its ability to revamp itself.
I grew up in the greater Dayton, Ohio area. Three malls were built in the late 1960s / early 1970s:
The Salem Mall, which was located just NW of downtown Dayton. It opened in 1966.
The Dayton Mall, which was located south of Dayton between Miamisburg and Centerville. It opened in 1970.
The Upper Valley Mall in Springfield, Ohio. It opened in 1971.
A fourth mall - the Mall at Fairfield Commons near Fairborn and Beavercreek - opened in 1993.
The Salem Mall closed in 2005. A year later The Greene Town Center opened near Kettering and Beavercreek. It’s an outdoor mall.
The Upper Valley Mall in Springfield closed last year. Which now leaves us with:
The Dayton Mall.
The Mall at Fairfield Commons.
The Greene Town Center.
I’m guessing the Dayton Mall will be next to close.
It’s been a few years. I think the last time was when I needed to go to the Apple Store to have my iPhone’s battery replaced. I normally only go to malls when I need to get something from a specific store. Although lately if I need to buy something that I can’t just pick up at Target during my regular shopping trip, I just buy it online. I guess I’m part of the reason malls are declining.
I live within 20 miles of 5 different malls. 2 of then, Southcenter Mall just south of Seattle and Tacoma Mall are both doing well. The parking lots are always full and a lot of new stores have been opening in the area. The closest, The Outlet Collection of Seattle (which is in Auburn) can be hit or miss. Last time went there it was pretty busy, the time before it seemed deserted. There is a large Super Walmart nearby, I think that helps draw some traffic to the mall. The other 2 seem to be just getting by. The Commons of Federal Way has lost a lot of big tenants recently but just added an Amazon Fresh store. The South Hill Mall in Puyallup has also lost a couple big tenants, Macy’s left and Kohls built a new store about 3 miles away.
My local mall lost half of its anchor stores (Sears, Carson’s) and is down to a JC Pennys and a Macys. There’s talk to converting the Sears and surrounding lot into an auto dealership and there was discussion about converting some of the building into apartments but then people freaked out about high density housing so I think that’s off the table.
Curiously, the mall management claims the mall is overall at high occupancy – I assume they mean most of the non-anchor slots are full. I haven’t been there in a good while myself to see. A look at the website makes it look like it’s largely jewelry stores, shoe stores, clothing and a few oddball things like a roofing store (presumably a showroom). One weird thing is that, the last time we did go there, the food court was three Asian places, a Mexican joint and a Sbarro. All the usual burger/hotdog/nugget places are gone. I want to know what the third guy to look at the food court and say “Needs more chicken fried rice options” was thinking.
I much prefer thrift shops to malls. Not really because I try to be parsimonious. More because I am much more likely to see something I want. The thriving local malls in my town sell mainly clothing, phone accessories and repair, telecom services and less healthy food.
The Mall of America is enormous! It was touted as the biggest mall in the world. I’m not sure if that actually was/still is true.
I was in Fairfield Commons near Dayton last month, we discovered it last year on a trip to the area. It is still doing decently, it’s like going back in time 20 years. We ate in the food court and there was plenty of people, and there weren’t many empty stores.
When we work to MSP we stay at one of several hotels on the outskirts of Mall of America. So walking over there for a dinner and a gawk are common activities. I’ve been there twice this year.
What I think is funny about MOA is that the four sides times 3 main floors are repetitive. They each have a different visual style, but there are three e.g. Old Navy stores. And three Abercrombie and Fitch. And two of this and 3 of that and … When it comes to the snack outlets, e.g. Auntie Ann’s pretzels, there’s about 6 of them scattered around.
The mall simply has more storefronts than America has generic mid-market retail chains and snack joints to fill them all.
You can get a decent meal at a few proper sit-down restaurants, or at an innumerable list of food court semi-fast food places. Lots of kids enjoy the amusement park and more so in winter than summer.
Whatever else MOA is, it’s not merely a typical hometown mall all Hulked out on steroids. It’s got a very different vibe.
There are, or were 4 malls within 20 miles of here. 2 of the ones NW along the 10 are currently being demolished for redevelopment. The middle one that direction has managed to survive, currently “boasting” the few remaining Sears, JC Penny and Gottschalk’s stores anywhere near here. The mall to the SE is Desert Hills Premium Outlet mall, which ranges from “busy” most of the time to “traffic shuts down the right lane of the 10 for miles in either direction” during the High Holy Shopping Days. I am quite sure that the location (halfway between Riverside and Palm Springs, directly adjacent to a very nice Tribal Casino/Resort) has something to do with it.
The two main enclosed malls in the area – Crossgates and Colony Center – seem to be doing OK. Most space is rented and they do get big crowds on weekends and, of course, around Christmas.
Several other malls have turned into a grouping of standalone shops and are called “Commons.” Mohawk Commons seems to be doing OK.
Stuyvesant Plaza is an old-fashioned strip mall, but it’s doing very well. Years ago – when experts said strip malls were dying – they made the decision to concentrate on boutique shops and avoiding national chains. They have a great bookstore, restaurants, and other small shops; the only thing with national presence is a drug store and Penzy’s Spices. Fun fact: Rachel Ray got her start working in a grocery there (since closed).
The worst off is Viaport (formerly Rotterdam Square). Lots of empty stores. They have converted part of it to an aquarium (which doesn’t seem to be making a lot of money) and a game center (which is always empty). The Macy’s space has turned into offices for the NYS Tax Department, which at least kept the food court going for awhile (but it’s still pretty moribund). They three anchor stores (Macy’s, Kmart, and Sears) are long gone and the Kmart and Sears spaces are empty. They thought of moving town offices into one of those, but the plan fell through.
My local mall is called Lone Pine Mall, but for some reason, I always think of its name as Twin Pines Mall. So weird, no idea why.
That’s a good question. Gateway Center looks similar to Edgewater City Place in Edgewater, NJ. or an outlet mall like Tanger Outlets in Long Island.
I suppose the simplest definition is that they are a cluster of stores and restaurants in the same named complex. I think what separates them from plain strip malls is that whether they are indoor or outdoor, there is usually some provision for pedestrians to mill about.
I think a mall also has to be it’s own destination, not just a bunch of stores attached to something like an airport terminal or train station. Like no one drives out to JFK to buy some ties and a phone charger.
They made a movie about that once, about someone from the future who thought that the future was different from what the future really was and wanted to change the future. I think it was called The Car That Couldn’t Slow Down.
Interesting, it reminds me of this other movie about a bus that had to SPEED around a city, keeping its SPEED over fifty, and if its SPEED dropped, it would explode! I think it was called Back to the Future.
The biggest local mall around here is Westfield Valley Fair in Santa Clara, CA.
As far as I know, it’s thriving. They recently finished a massive overhaul where they added like a million square feet of extra space. It has high-end restaurants, interesting food court places (mostly not your typical chain stuff), three whole floors of Eataly, one side with fancy stores like Tiffany and Burberry and Jimmy Choo, a multi-screen theater, a bowling alley, and tons of regular stores.
As malls go it’s pretty sweet, though the parking can get nightmarish during busy times.
At three points in my life I have lived in rapidly growing suburbs. I mean, really rapidly growing. At other times I’ve lived in generic areas with malls and such.
The first rapidly growing area specialized mostly in “plazas” and such at first. No enclosed malls. But eventually one was built. A relative got a job there. Etc. All normal stuff for the time.
The second rapidly growing area had one big “main” mall and some smaller ones. Then more were built, etc. until a “regional” supermall was built further out. The original main mall was doing great for several years. (And again a relative worked there for a bit. Another relative worked at one of that later ones for a short while.)
But things went south. We went to the main mall less and until until finally stopping with no sense of loss. Continued to go to a later mall for a bit more but it became sad. It was clear that the whole mall thing was dying. Anchor stores were just going away. The area around the main mall started to become empty. Went from 3 first run movie houses and a “dollar” theater to just the cheap place left in the area. It seemed that the only reason people went to the area in general was for the restaurants. Even the news stopped covering the Black Friday parking situation (complete with helicopter shots) since parking was no longer an issue. (In fact some remote lots started to be used as storage by nearby car dealers since otherwise the lots would sit empty and money was money to the lot owners.)
Now, in my third rapidly growing area there is no mall at all nearby. I mean not remotely nearby. 40 years ago this would have been prime “Hey, look at all these people moving there. Gotta build a mall!” to nothing going on in that vein at all. So I don’t expect any relative to have a job at a non-existent mall.
A lot of malls around these parts want to make their parking lots smaller. Some want to repurpose part of the area for apartments. Many malls have built several stand-alone, drive-thru restaurants in the parking lots, taking up substantial space.
This thread plus the fact that I’ve been binge watching “dead mall” videos on YouTube inspired me to head over to Sunrise Mall to see how they’re doing. The TLDR version is yeah, it’s pretty dead.
First impression: As you approach Citrus Heights from the west on Greenback Lane, the hulking, brutalist, early 1970s Macy’s store that anchors the north end of the Sunrise Mall begins to appear off to your left. Then as you get closer you start to notice that it’s got that dirty, mildewy appearance that aging brutalist buildings often get. Entering the parking lot it’s vast sea of empty, cracked, pavement. There are a small number of cars clustered near the entrances. I had no trouble finding a parking space, which is the exact opposite of the experience of going to the mall 20 years ago. At first I thought maybe it was just the time of day I was there – it was midday on a Friday. But then again the shopping center across the street, anchored by Target, looked pretty busy.
I entered through the main entrance across from JC Penny and headed to the food court for lunch, as I hadn’t eaten yet. The food court consisted of Taco Bell, an mom and pop stall serving Nigerian food, a coffee kiosk, and a whole bunch of vacant stalls. And there was a pretzel place around the corner that wasn’t part of the food court proper. I didn’t really want Taco Bell, so I went to the Nigerian place and got a plate of stewed beef, rice seasoned with West African spices, and plantains. They also had fish, chicken, and goat, and beans and yams were other side options (I wish I’d asked it the “yams” were actually sweet potatoes, or if they had managed to source real African yams). It was quite tasty (albeit a little pricy), and I am glad I went there, so I have to give a shout out to Naija Cuisine, a real bright sport in the dead mall. But I do have to admit, when most of the major chains leave and get replaced by mom and pop places serving “ethnic” food, that’s a telltale sign that a mall is dying.
At first the mall didn’t seem that empty, but that’s kind deceiving because most of the remaining businesses are clustered in the north end of the mall by Macy’s and the food court. As you walk south the businesses start to thin out. They could completely wall off the south wing of the mall and it wouldn’t matter; there’s literally nothing there. I took the photo below from the south end of the mall from in front of the former Sears. Empty, apart from one mall walker in the distance.
Of the remaining businesses, there are still a few of your typical mid-market mall stores: A Famous Footwear, a Hallmark Store, Kay Jewelers, Hot Topic, Torrid, Claire’s, and they still have a Spenser’s Gifts! But there also seems to be an overabundance of independent stores selling hats, sneakers, athletic wear, and other “urban” fashions. And an independent toy store, and a place selling prom (or other formal occasion) dresses. That’s another telltale sign of a dying mall, when the independent stores start to outnumber the chains.
Macy’s and JC Penny are still open. And I happened to need some shorts, so why not buy some from one of the anchors while I was there? I looked around Macy’s, and then wandered up the escalator just to check out the whole store. That’s now the furniture department, and it was completely deserted except for two probably very bored employees who asked it I needed help. Oh, and I was mistaken earlier when I said they moved to a smaller space; they didn’t physically move, but they closed off the third floor, which as I recall used to be the housewares section the last time I was there years ago. Then I walked over to JC Penny, found their stuff was a bit less expensive than Macy’s, and bought myself a pair of cargo shorts. And I got talked into signing up for a JC Penny credit card, just to get the 35%. As an Elder Millennial I am certain that was literally the first time I ever bought anything from a JC Penny, and I’m sure I’ll never use that credit card again, but the discount did make the shorts a real bargain.
And speaking of generational differences, there were maybe a few other younger people there, but it seemed like the majority of the shoppers at JC Penny were old ladies. That may have just been the time of day I was there, but that is my stereotype of the type of people who still shop at Penny’s. It seemed like the mall’s main clientele were the senior citizen mall walkers (and a few shoppers), and parents who brought their kids there just to get them out of the house during summer break.
Architecturally the mall got a remodel in the late 1990s, and the tile, carpet, and signage definitely had a late 1990s / early 2000s feel. But there are still some vintage 1970s touches, like lots of exposed brick. I know brutalist architecture is not particularly well liked, but I kind like those vintage mid-century features.
Well I think that’s about it for my report on Sunrise Mall. Man, that ended up being a really long post. I wish I had taken more pictures, but Google Street view does do a good job capturing the outside, and there are of course “dead mall” YouTube videos featuring it.
North entrance, looking towards Macy’s:
Main entrance from Sunrise Boulevard. Google Street View shows way more cars in the parking lot than there were when I was there, but look at when they were taken. December 2022! Christmas shopping season, and the mall parking lot is still half empty!
And the most recent video I could find on YouTube:
Sigh “You can’t embed media items in a post.” Linky to YouTube video.
From some of the deal mall videos I’ve been watching on YouTube, there a phenomenon (which I forget the name of) where a newer, nicer, place opens relatively close by, an everyone starts going there instead of the older mall. That may be part of what happened to Sunrise Mall. Probably not all of it, but one of the factors.