# Tell me again why hemp is illegal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 27, 2009, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700 "2009-09-27T00:50:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/41 "2009-09-28T20:46:20Z")
[QUOTE=Try2B Comprehensive] I haven’t read Cecil’s column.. If there is a 'doper consensus that he’s right on this question, I’d at least take it seriously. [/QUOTE] Sheesh man…not only did I link to it but I posted most of the highlights. It won’t take you very long to get through it and may give you some perspective. As for a consensus from 'dopers…no such animal exists! However, I’d have to say that, based on my experiences here on the 'dope, that on this subject there is a pretty good consensus on this particular subject. Of course, there is a pretty good consensus on the various 9/11 CT’s as well, as you saw in the thread you started, yet that didn’t seem to phase you much, so I’m unsure why it would on this either. -XT ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/42 "2009-09-29T02:25:49Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Hoo-boy. This load of crap again. > There is no need for a ‘corporate conspiracy’ when good old fashion racism fills the bill. > > I won’t deny it was racism. But countering racism with lies and conspiracy theories…is that what you want to do?. While I agree it’s a complete load of crap, there is no evidence at all that racism had anything to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/43 "2009-09-29T03:35:24Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > So you want us to watch a 30 sec video but you can’t be bothered to read Cecil’s column? Maybe it does affect motivation. I rattled off some responses before I went to work, where I don’t spend a lot of time on message boards. Forgive me, and I hope I can get some slack in the hemp thread :rolleyes: I hadn’t read Cecil’s article, but now I have. Here is an interesting quote: > [@](#): > > The suppression of hemp wasn’t, as some have alleged, the result of an unholy conspiracy between federal narcotics commissioner Harry Anslinger, the Du Pont corporation, and William Randolph Hearst. No question, Anslinger was a zealot who thought marijuana was a menace to society, and Hearst’s newspapers had done their best to whip up antihemp hysteria. But so had everybody else in the press. Isn’t this some kind of 3rd person tu quoque? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/44 "2009-09-29T03:52:58Z")
I should also fess up that I harbor something like conspiracy theories about W’s Secretary of Agriculture, Mike Johanns. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2009, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/45 "2009-09-29T21:25:54Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Isn’t this some kind of 3rd person tu quoque? No. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/46 "2009-09-30T03:00:43Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Here’s a USDA study from 2000, looking at the prospects of hemp as a viable alternative crop. > > [http://www.ers.usda.gov/Publications/AGES001e/](http://www.ers.usda.gov/Publications/AGES001e/) Thanks for posting such an informative link. It cleared up one of my misconceptions right away: > [@](#): > > Marijuana and industrial hemp are different varieties of the same plant species, Cannabis sativa I thought they were more distantly related than that. This helps me understand the hemp=pot mentality better, though the article goes on from this point to explain how the adults in Canada nevertheless manage to keep the THC levels of industrial hemp low. > [@](#): > > It concludes that there’s not much of a demand for industrial hemp for fiber. We don’t import much hemp fiber into the US, and there’s not any commercially viable linen production in the US, even though there’s no legal barriers to linen production (linen and hemp are pretty much interchangeable in terms of use in fabric production). Hemp seed as a food ingredient probably will never have a large market, but be equivalent to the market for poppy and sesame seeds, and hemp oil has disadvantages when used for food production, and will find it hard to compete with other oils for industrial lubrication. It also concludes that in Canada (where industrial hemp production was legalized), there was a tremendous overestimate of the crop’s potential and it led to a a glut in the market. It concludes that industrial hemp production is probably not economically feasible in the US. Doesn’t look like a blockbuster. Combined with the hemp=pot meme, there are small profits and some headaches with hemp legalization. Makes some sense that it would remain illegal, even though its outlaw status is rooted in racism. Faulty on more than one count, but makes some sense. Still- I would like to see reliable numbers for hemp in ethanol production. I know other crops might produce yet more ethanol- switchgrass, algae, heck even sugar cane- but I’d still like to know how hemp stacks up against legal crops in this regard. I suspect hemp’s tenacity may allow for fuel yields under conditions that produce zilcho using other methods. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/47 "2009-09-30T03:43:21Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > It would take a talented drug dealer to prevent the microscopic pollen from cross pollinating their plants. Simply put: Drug plants hidden inside industrial plants will become industrial plants. Or at the least, become very weak drug plants. And this would damage the reputation of a fly-by-night dealer how, considering the original plant would be unaffected by the adulteration of its offspring? ---
**Author:** ![Blake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a9a28c/32.png) [@Blake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blake)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/48 "2009-09-30T09:24:27Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > It would take a talented drug dealer to prevent the microscopic pollen from cross pollinating their plants. Simply put: Drug plants hidden inside industrial plants will become industrial plants. Or at the least, become very weak drug plants. No they won’t. The parts of the plant harvested for drug production are the shoot apexes and the sap. The makeup of those parts is determined entirely by the seed that the plant is germinated from. It doesn’t matter how much cross pollination you get, it own;t affect the drug quality of the plant one iota. The only thing that cross pollination will affect is the seed, but since commercial plants aren’t allowed to set seed anyway that’s no loss. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/49 "2009-09-30T15:23:47Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Why are people so afraid of marrywanna. Give a teen 10 bucks and ask him to get a bag and he can. It is everywhere. Want it you can get it. So thinking keeping it against the law is limiting it is a joke. All we do is waste tons of money enforcing it. We jail people for smoking and dealing weed. Then while you are taking them away, someone else is stepping up to sell. It is a huge waste of time and money. Lets grow up . > There are supposed to be a lot of uses for hemp. What does it hurt to go after them. It may result in eco friendly replacements for petroleum plastics. Why are we always so afraid? I don’t necessarily disagree with you. What upsets me is this pushing for the legalization of hemp cultivation by people who obviously don’t give two whits about any type of crop use. It is undeniable that they want hemp legalization to make the marijuana laws even harder to enforce. That is another debate, but let’s have that one instead of being disingenous about being Farmer John and wanting a good crop yield for paper and clothing purposes. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/50 "2009-09-30T16:38:15Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Total crap for the most part. Hemp paper historically was considered the worst kind. If we were to switch to hemp we would need to abandon decades of technology and pollution controls developed for wood pulp. Furthermore, the only way to get 1/2 decent hemp paper is to mix it with a decent amount of other pulp material such as linen. If we had to switch away from wood pulp, there are better choices than hemp. I’ve actually been in the hemp business, including the hemp paper business. I was a member of two international boards involved with industrial hemp, as well as a frequent speaker at international hemp symposiums. I know that there has been a lot of interest from major paper companies in hemp (they like to fly below the radar, but I can say they have names that you would recognize) I also know that hemp does in fact, make a very fine paper. On the other hand, given current supplies and technology, it’s expensive. (and there would be a shortage of hemp pulp if it ever really took off). Otherwise, both sides are basically right. It’s a very good crop, but not a miracle. Farmers can (and do) make money growing it. Fabric made from hemp has “problems” but still holds promise. Same for hemp seed food and cosmetic products. There are, as others have pointed out, some industrial applications for the fiber (in the auto industry for example). Hemp is a useful crop that should not be illegal. Marijuana woudl not be hidden in hemp fields. See Dr. David West and his work: Myth: Hemp fields would be used to hide marijuana plants. Reality: Hemp is grown quite differently from marijuana. Moreover, it is harvested at a different time than marijuana. Finally, cross-pollination between hemp plants and marijuana plants would significantly reduce the potency of the marijuana plant. > **[gametec.com - This website is for sale! - gametec Resources and Information.](http://www.gametec.com/hemp/hempandmj.html)** > > This website is for sale! gametec.com is your first and best source for information about gametec. Here you will also find topics relating to issues of general interest. We hope you find what you are looking for! ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/51 "2009-09-30T16:45:10Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > No they won’t. > > The parts of the plant harvested for drug production are the shoot apexes and the sap. The makeup of those parts is determined **entirely by the seed that the plant is germinated from**. It doesn’t matter how much cross pollination you get, it own;t affect the drug quality of the plant one iota. The only thing that cross pollination will affect is the seed, but since commercial plants aren’t allowed to set seed anyway that’s no loss. Bolding mine. Almost 100%-- except that the growing conditions also exert a powerful influence. Adequate water at the correct times, sufficient nutrients, and sunlight (including proper photoperiod for this short-day plant) all help determine the final crop. Give a seed lots of water, fertilize it heavily, and allow for long days of full sun followed by day lengths decreasing (like in the fall) and it will produce big, gooey buds. Put the same seed in poorer conditions, and not so much. Either way though, as \*\*Blake \*\*says, pollination will have zero effect on drug quality. _Unless we want to argue the esoteric point that “seedless” buds are superior for drug use._ ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/52 "2009-09-30T21:10:24Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’ve actually been in the hemp business, including the hemp paper business. I was a member of two international boards involved with industrial hemp, as well as a frequent speaker at international hemp symposiums. I know that there has been a lot of interest from major paper companies in hemp (they like to fly below the radar, but I can say they have names that you would recognize) I also know that hemp does in fact, make a very fine paper. On the other hand, given current supplies and technology, it’s expensive. (and there would be a shortage of hemp pulp if it ever really took off). Thus far in my experience I have seen the opposite. I have not been on international boards but I have talked with people in the papermaking industry (at least they were 10 years ago). At the time, they weren’t exactly thrilled. Historically, hemp was crappy paper. I won’t say I have seen everything but to date the only decent hemp paper I saw was using other fibers, everything else looked either like something a hippy made with his home wire-mesh papermaking kit or something that felt like a dollar bill gone wrong. The 90’s were the heyday of hemp advocates and frankly they were trying to sell us a bill of goods. They told us hemp paper did not need bleaching (true…if you wanted beige colored paper) they told us it was more environmentally sound (it usually fails vs tree farms) - in effect they were ignoring the harvesting and industrial realities. Quite frankly, if you were going to look for a non-wood source for pulp there were other plants that might do the job better. > [@](#): > > Otherwise, both sides are basically right. It’s a very good crop, but not a miracle. Farmers can (and do) make money growing it. It doesn’t seem terribly promising at this point. Harvesting is still a bitch and the overpromotion in Canada made for a glut. Australia balked at setting up a hemp industry when they looked at the realities. I’m not saying it should be illegal, I’m just saying its looking a lot like a non-starter. Fabric made from hemp has “problems” but still holds promise. Same for hemp seed food and cosmetic products. There are, as others have pointed out, some industrial applications for the fiber (in the auto industry for example). Hemp is a useful crop that should not be illegal. Marijuana woudl not be hidden in hemp fields. See Dr. David West and his work: Myth: Hemp fields would be used to hide marijuana plants. Reality: Hemp is grown quite differently from marijuana. Moreover, it is harvested at a different time than marijuana. Finally, cross-pollination between hemp plants and marijuana plants would significantly reduce the potency of the marijuana plant. > **[gametec.com - This website is for sale! - gametec Resources and Information.](http://www.gametec.com/hemp/hempandmj.html)** > > This website is for sale! gametec.com is your first and best source for information about gametec. Here you will also find topics relating to issues of general interest. We hope you find what you are looking for! [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/53 "2009-10-01T04:53:31Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Harvesting is still a bitch Oh I don’t know, it doesn’t look so tough when the [US govt](http://www.usa.gov/) does it (see the harvesting at around 4:00) in the old WWII video [Hemp for Victory](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne9UF-pFhJY). ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/54 "2009-10-01T05:28:03Z")
(checking the statute of limitations) The test tube had an etched metal strip, noting a DEA lot number and a rating at “moderate paranoia.” My BIL was willing to pay more than I, but this was impressive, even for him. (noting that I’m in Job Hunting mode) Of course, I didn’t try it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/55 "2009-10-01T16:28:34Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Oh I don’t know, it doesn’t look so tough when the [US govt](http://www.usa.gov/) does it (see the harvesting at around 4:00) in the old WWII video [Hemp for Victory](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ne9UF-pFhJY). I wonder how many takes they had before things jammed up or the blades dulled: [http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/00-067.htm#harvesting](http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/crops/facts/00-067.htm#harvesting) 'On small acreages, good quality sickle-bar mowers and hay swathers have been used to cut hemp. Frequent plugging has been a constant problem with this equipment. It is important to keep knives sharp and in good repair at all times. As acreage increases, more sophisticated equipment may have to be imported or developed." ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/56 "2009-10-02T02:19:19Z")
Ruh roh. 1940s tech had trouble harvesting hemp! ---
**Author:** ![janeslogin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@janeslogin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/janeslogin)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/57 "2009-10-02T19:09:11Z")
We were taught in agricultural classes about 1950s that the government decided, for some reason, to ban all cannabis species and thus the useful industrial hemp got banned too. - (This way useful industrial hemp from other countries got banned or at least sorely incumbered.) - For reasons of political rhetoric it is hard to unravel such laws. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/58 "2009-10-03T03:34:32Z")
Furthermore, we currently harvest _forests_ to produce paper. You {Mr. Miskatonic} need a detailed description of the problem to convince me that hemp harvestation is too difficult to attempt. \*Other things I still need to be convinced in detail before I drop it: -Hemp can’t replace wood for paper. Gimme details. So what if it is hemp+20% linen? If the ecological result is better, why don’t we do that? -Hemp isn’t better than corn for ethanol. The number I know from hearsay is that hemp is 4x better than corn in producing ethanol. Show me some reliable numbers! -Cecil’s column has aged well. C’mon dude, I thought I set the bar pretty low for bad google-fu, but here you go: [Deforestation](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deforestation). ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/59 "2009-10-03T04:42:16Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Furthermore, we currently harvest _forests_ to produce paper. And this is a problem because…? You do know that most paper comes from trees that were [specifically planted for that purpose](http://www.de-fact-o.com/fact_read.php?id=63), right? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2009, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700/60 "2009-10-03T05:07:51Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > -Hemp isn’t better than corn for ethanol. The number I know from hearsay is that hemp is 4x better than corn in producing ethanol. Show me some reliable numbers! > -. wiki Corn yields "_US is 321 to 424 gal/acre"_ and that’s just the grain itself, there’s quite a bit possible from the silage or stalks. A pro hemp site: [http://fuelandfiber.com/Hemp4NRG/Hemp4NRGRV3.htm](http://fuelandfiber.com/Hemp4NRG/Hemp4NRGRV3.htm) 146 gallons per acre. So, it’s the opposite, hemp yields 1/2- 1/3 of what Corn does. Which makes sense, corn has a lot more sugar than hemp does. OTOH, sugar cane yields _727 to 870 gal/acre_ Hemp just isn’t that special, there are a number of other plants that yield higher biomass. For example switchgrass. [http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re\_biomass-crops.htm#switchgrass](http://www.seco.cpa.state.tx.us/re_biomass-crops.htm#switchgrass) _As a fast growing energy crop, or closed loop biomass, switchgrass yields over 1,000 gallons per acre, more than 3 times the yield of corn. Switchgrass and sorghum are from the same family; both are short term crops and produce prolifically with limited water, insecticides or fertilizer needs._ So, nearly 10x the yield of hemp, with all the same benefits. The only dudes heavily promoting hemp are those who also want to smoke it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-again-why-hemp-is-illegal/511700.md?page=4)