# Tell me bad things about Cuba. **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 20, 2011, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065 "2011-04-20T08:55:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/21 "2011-04-21T00:27:24Z")
First, read this book: [http://www.amazon.com/This-Cuba-Outlaw-Culture-Survives/dp/0813338263](http://www.amazon.com/This-Cuba-Outlaw-Culture-Survives/dp/0813338263) When I visited I found his observations to be dead-on. - Havana is a wreck. A once beautiful city that is in such disrepair that buildings (that were once very impressive) are collapsing at the rate of about one a day. If a building isn’t used by the government or is generating dollars from tourists then it just deteriorates. You can’t believe until you see it how deteriorated Havana is. - There is no real social safety net. If a person is of no value to the government then the government would just as soon they die. Despite the talk about socialism and health care, if an AIDS patient shows up at the hospital the only real care they will get is from charitable volunteers. - You cannot survive unless you are in some way dealing on the black market. Necessary goods simply aren’t available. - Cuban citizens cannot go into tourist hotels and beaches even if they can afford it. Discrimination against it’s own citizens is sanctioned and enforced by the government. - Cuba is not a “communist” country, it is a dictatorship. Communism is a far second to keeping power in the hands of a few. - The is a lost generation in Cuba. Those that stayed have been oppressed and are miserable. Unfortunately, the ones that left influenced US foreign policy to the detriment of the Cubans in Cuba. When there is change, the Cubans they stayed will get screwed over once again. The Cuban leaders never suffered due to US foreign policy. The Cubans in Cuba bore the brunt of it. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/22 "2011-04-21T00:44:13Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > You’ll find the “tourist apartheid” quite handily in every poor country. Heck, you can find it quite handily here in beautiful Washington DC- somehow my bus manages to come precisely on time during the mostly-white downtown commute hours, but wander lazily by at random during the (largely not white) off hours. Uh . . . what? What do white and non-white have to do with tourists? And the only reason that busses run on time during commuting hours is because that’s when white people ride? ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/23 "2011-04-21T02:27:37Z")
**lalenin** is a Cuban emigrant and should be able to supply some particulars. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/24 "2011-04-21T02:47:49Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Uh . . . what? What do white and non-white have to do with tourists? And the only reason that busses run on time during commuting hours is because that’s when white people ride? Well, it’s less about race and more about money, but that’s my basic theory and I bet if you did a study on DC transit options you’d see something similar- this is a very divided city. The point is that it’s not unusual anywhere, but especially in poor countries, for public infrastructure to be geared towards those who make money for the local government. China still has quite a few subtle but very real rules about the ways that tourists and locals mix. Some train stations, for example, have special tourist ticket windows. Chinese people are technically required to register with the police if a foreigner spends the night at their home. This stuff happens. I do like the idea that Castro invented the sex trade, though. Heh. I guess in other Latin American countries you’d expect to find a lack of brothels then, huh? ---
**Author:** ![pinguin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ac8455/32.png) [@pinguin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinguin)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/25 "2011-04-21T02:51:34Z")
Nope, but the Caribbean countries are famous because the high level of prostitution for tourism. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/26 "2011-04-21T02:58:21Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > Do all the people loaded on anything that will float and attempting to make it to the USA and dying doing it count as proof it’s not all sunshine and laughter? > > I vote for going to Florida and letting him speak to someone that used to live there. Seconded. When people are dying to escape a country, it should be fairly obvious that a “utopia” it’s not. Surely your boyfriend knows this. **phantom lamb** , have you showed him this thread, or told him any of this? Any reactions so far? ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/27 "2011-04-21T03:33:24Z")
The healthcare in Cuba is also horrible for locals. The “great” healthcare that Michael Moore and others talk about is available only for the medical tourist who pay CASH for it. The local doctors are hard pressed to come up with antibiotics, which to be fair, the government of Cuba blames on the embargo by the USA. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/28 "2011-04-21T04:25:18Z")
> [@Markxxx](#): > > The healthcare in Cuba is also horrible for locals. The “great” healthcare that Michael Moore and others talk about is available only for the medical tourist who pay CASH for it. > > The local doctors are hard pressed to come up with antibiotics, which to be fair, the government of Cuba blames on the embargo by the USA. Correct. The locals are hard pressed to come up with any pharmaceuticals.Walk into a drug store in Cuba and there is hardly anything on the shelves. (Same for the food stores that are suppose to honor the ration coupons.) The doctors may be well trained but the availability of drugs and medical supplies are so limited that they can’t treat patients the way they know they should. Terminal patients rely on charity workers just to get aspirin or acetaminophen, not to mention pillows and blankets. (In Puerto Rico the family has to bring the pillows and blankets so it’s not just Cuba). Yes, if it generates dollars, you can get good stuff. But, if you really tried to live withing the system you would starve to death. A doctor, which is the highest paid profession make about $30 US a month. A retired government worker will get less than $5/month in pension. Over 30% of the population is being subsidized by relatives outside the country. That’s why the black market is so huge. If that’s an ideal system then try to go live in it. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/29 "2011-04-21T04:25:26Z")
Ever any Black people in important political positions in Cuba. Interesting, that it. ---
**Author:** ![phantom\_lamb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@phantom\_lamb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phantom_lamb)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 10:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/30 "2011-04-21T10:18:34Z")
> [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > Do all the people loaded on anything that will float and attempting to make it to the USA and dying doing it count as proof it’s not all sunshine and laughter? > > I vote for going to Florida and letting him speak to someone that used to live there. Okay thanks for that point. He told me that “Castro allows anyone to leave if that’s what they want but they just don’t want to”. Obviously not true. > [@Gary\_T](#): > > My mind’s on not-so-good things about your boyfriend. I think it takes a certain naiveté to see those admirable aspects in isolation from the negative components. It speaks to me of willful ignorance, lack of critical thinking, and a rather juvenile “the world would be so wonderful if only…” worldview that fails to recognize human nature and political reality. I’d be worn out from rolling my eyes and shaking my head if I had to listen to that pap. Of course, he’s not _my_ boyfriend, so carry on. 🙂 Well, apart from his political views we get along quite well 🙂 > [@Rodgers01](#): > > **phantom lamb** , have you showed him this thread, or told him any of this? Any reactions so far? Not yet - I plan on giving him all this information the next time he starts praising Castro and Cuba. **Thank you guys for your replies, some interesting reading here. And damn, it really sounds a lot more awful than I thought. Sounds like hell over there.** ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/31 "2011-04-21T14:06:15Z")
More on the tourism / foreigner business in Cuba. I was on a religious mission to Cuba a few years ago, Treasury license and all. Most of the places we went had prices posted in pesos (CUP) and convertible pesos (CUC), such as “4 CUP, 5 CUC.” Backplot: CUP is the currency for Cubans, CUC is the currency for foreigners. Dollars, Euros, Yen, you need to buy CUCs. Naturally the government takes a cut on top of the exchange rate. So on the face of it, you the foreigner are paying slightly more than the locals, which is a normal “tourist tax,” yes? NO. The internal exchange rate is something like 1 CUC = 20 CUP, and only through authorized money traders – Cubans can use only the CUP at the Cuban-only businesses. So you the foreigner are paying many times what the locals pay. The mission I was on was well managed to keep us away from anything sensitive, such as real businesses for locals. So I cannot speak with firsthand knowledge to the lack of basic supplies. Given that, we brought as humanitarian supplies lots of toiletries. I leave the conclusion as an exercise for the student. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/32 "2011-04-21T14:15:32Z")
Get him to read [The Cuba Diaries: An American Housewife in Havana](http://www.amazon.com/Cuba-Diaries-American-Housewife-Havana/dp/0767914848) by Isadora Tattlin, charting 4 years in Cuba during the nineties. She was living in a wealthy expatriate household, but was able vicariously to experience life as a Cuban through servants and friends. I don’t know if this woman has any axe to grind - I don’t think so - and the portrait she paints is pretty grim. It’s also absolutely fascinating, and very well written. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/33 "2011-04-21T14:22:34Z")
> [@phantom\_lamb](#): > > Okay thanks for that point. He told me that “Castro allows anyone to leave if that’s what they want but they just don’t want to”. Obviously not true. Ha ha ha! I have family there, and no, that’s not true. Seriously, not true. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/34 "2011-04-21T15:08:33Z")
> [@phantom\_lamb](#): > > To cut it short, my boyfriend is convinced that Cuba is some kind of utopia and that Castro is a great guy. Tell your boyfriend to change his name to Elian, go to Miami, rent a boat and head due south. When he gets to Cuba, he can tell them he wants politcal asylum. They will welcome him with open arms. And your problem will be solved. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/35 "2011-04-21T15:08:44Z")
Back in college my Spanish teacher was a Cuba escape. She painted a pretty grim picture. And this was way back when the Soviets were doing their best to prop up Cuba financially and industrially/socially and the Cuba infrastructure was still coasting on what had been built in better times. If it was pretty grim 30 to 40 odd years ago, I can’t image 30 years of decay and no more Rubles flowing in has improved the situation any. As far as I can tell, Cuba does only about one thing right. They make sure everybody gets a basic education. To extrapolate just that to “its a paradise” is just plain silly (I am being polite here). ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/36 "2011-04-21T16:30:31Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Tell your boyfriend to change his name to Elian, go to Miami, rent a boat and head due south. When he gets to Cuba, he can tell them he wants politcal asylum. They will welcome him with open arms. > > And your problem will be solved. 😉 sounds like an interesting thought experiment. Does Communist Cuba allow Americans who are not ethnically Cuban to immigrate, whether as political asylum or under any other name? Could somebody pull a Jim Jones, leading his sect of followers to settle there and, inter alia, integrate into this whole “Communist economy based on American remittances” thingie? I mean, Cuba has got to be a nicer place to wait out imperialist oppression than the jungles of Guyana. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/37 "2011-04-21T16:38:08Z")
They let that fraudster Robert Vesko (sp?) live there, but that seems to have been a cash deal. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/38 "2011-04-21T16:56:53Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I believe people in Florida are often people who specifically lost in the revolution, and thus may not actually be upset about conditions now, but more about what their family specifically lost out on. Most of South Florida’s Cuban population is 1967 exiles/refugees and their descendants, but there are also lots of post-'67 refugees. It’s not quite true to say that the pre-'67 emigrants are the “losers” of the revolution, though. Lots of them are just people who were (or would have been) harrassed, arrested, or “disappeared” following the revolution: intellectuals, political leaders and so on. IIRC, most of the Bautista government types fled to other Latin American states rather than the US. ---
**Author:** ![Rodgers01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b19c9b/32.png) [@Rodgers01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rodgers01)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/39 "2011-04-21T17:54:07Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > sounds like an interesting thought experiment. Does Communist Cuba allow Americans who are not ethnically Cuban to immigrate, whether as political asylum or under any other name? > > Could somebody pull a Jim Jones, leading his sect of followers to settle there and, inter alia, integrate into this whole “Communist economy based on American remittances” thingie? I mean, Cuba has got to be a nicer place to wait out imperialist oppression than the jungles of Guyana. I dunno about a Jim Jones situation, but I bet the Castro brothers would _love_ it if some Americans tried to defect to Cuba and claim asylum. What a PR coup that would be! ---
**Author:** ![lindsaybluth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/90db22/32.png) [@lindsaybluth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsaybluth)\ **Post date:** [April 21, 2011, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065/40 "2011-04-21T22:09:02Z")
> [@phantom\_lamb](#): > > To cut it short, my boyfriend is convinced that Cuba is some kind of utopia and that Castro is a great guy. Everyone is equal and eveyrone gets what they need and there’s no evil consumer mentality. I call BS but I admit I’m not knowledgable enough on this subject to actually offer him concrete examples of why he might be wrong. > > So please offer me some counterarguments :o Uh, people are generally hungry and have no freedom of expression. The internet is severely restricted, nobody can afford to live alone or with their families, nobody can afford computers or basic electronics. Here’s the best example: every time a Cuban athletic team comes to the US, somebody defects. As in, runs away from their family and everything they know to live in the US. Do happy people run away from their loved ones and their home? > [@Harmonious\_Discord](#): > > Do all the people loaded on anything that will float and attempting to make it to the USA and dying doing it count as proof it’s not all sunshine and laughter? > > I vote for going to Florida and letting him speak to someone that used to live there. For full disclosure, my mom is a Cuban emigre. She left with the clothes on her back and was often hungry in her childhood. My grandfather was a hospital orderly who changed bedpans in the US; in Cuba he was a physician who had delivered over a 1000 babies. Eventually my grandparents retired well off and my mom and her siblings are well off today but they bear the scars of their childhood. You never really get over being hungry, ya know? Their friends who didn’t flee in 1960 were murdered. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-bad-things-about-cuba/579065.md?page=3)