# Tell me Hillary wouldn't be a socialist dictator. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 5, 2007, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-hillary-wouldnt-be-a-socialist-dictator/394701 "2007-03-05T17:12:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-hillary-wouldnt-be-a-socialist-dictator/394701/281 "2007-03-19T00:46:08Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] Look, you said “No, actually, FDR’s programs have fit perfectly within a constitutional framework”. For many of FDR’s programs, your statement is demonstrably false. [/QUOTE] I know of only two: NRA and first AAA, that were declared unconstitutional – by the “Four Horsemen” plus one other justice. I believe there was another one as well. _most_ of FDR’s programs were deemed constitutional, albeit by stretching “interstate commerce” vastly out of shape. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-hillary-wouldnt-be-a-socialist-dictator/394701/282 "2007-03-19T01:01:21Z")
[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness] Actually, I’d also like to respond to this. How many bureaucracies have you worked in? I’ve not worked in a lot, but certainly enough to know that this sentence is nonsense. An agency headed up by a brilliant bureacrat is a true pleasure to work within. One headed up by a self-centered idiot is a misery to work within. Likewise, the competence of one’s coworkers within an agency can make all the difference in the world. Daniel [/QUOTE] Precisely. I DO have experience in government employment, under both excellent and mediocre agency heads, and the difference in how the department I worked for operated – within exactly the same legislative and regulatory framework – was clear and unambiguous. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-hillary-wouldnt-be-a-socialist-dictator/394701/283 "2007-03-19T01:26:57Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] As an addendum, I should add that the reason this country is so ill-equipped to function as a nanny-state is that is was designed from its inception to allow its citizens to be free of government control over their lives. [/QUOTE] Ah yes, that’s why there were laws protecting slave owners, blue laws preventing stores from being open on Sundays, prohibition of adultery and fonication, bans of interracial marriage, restrictions on what drugs you can use and a brief prohibition of alcohol, outlawing celebration of Christmas in Massachusetts, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Carol\_Stream](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@Carol\_Stream](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carol_Stream)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-hillary-wouldnt-be-a-socialist-dictator/394701/284 "2007-03-19T01:30:20Z")
[QUOTE=Polycarp] I know of only two: NRA and first AAA, that were declared unconstitutional – by the “Four Horsemen” plus one other justice. I believe there was another one as well. _most_ of FDR’s programs were deemed constitutional, albeit by stretching “interstate commerce” vastly out of shape. [/QUOTE] It was more than the two you mentioned: 1935 Jan 7: Panama Refining Co.v. Ryan, 293 U.S. 388 (1935) Held: National Industrial Recovery Act Sect. 9(c) unconstitutional 1935 May 6: Railroad Retirement Board V. Alton R. Co., 295 U.S. 330 (1935) Held: Railrod Retirement Act unconstitutional 1935 May 27: A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. v. U.S., 295 U.S. 495 (1935) Held: National Industrial Recovery Act unconstitutional 1936 Jan 6: United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1 (1936) Held: Agricultural Adjustment Act unconstitutional 1936 May 18: Carter v. Carter Coal Co., 298 U.S. 238 (1936) Held: Bituminous Coal Conservation Act of 1935 unconstitutional 1937 Mar 29: West Coast Hotel Co. v. Parrish, 300 U.S. 379 (1937) Held: State of WA minimum wage law constitutional 1937 Apr 12: N.L.R.B. v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U.S. 1 (1937) Held: NLRA constitutional 1937 May 24: Steward Machine Co. v. Davis, 301 U.S. 548 (1937) Held: Social Security tax constitutional ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-hillary-wouldnt-be-a-socialist-dictator/394701/285 "2007-03-19T01:46:31Z")
For those of you who hate America: > [@](#): > > RESULTS: The authors found no significant differences in postoperative mortality rates between the VA and private hospital systems for 105 of the 113 surgical procedures or procedure groups. [cite.](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8452406&dopt=Citation) > [@](#): > > The telephone survey, conducted in October, found inpatient care received a rating of 83 on a 100-point scale; outpatient care got a rating of 80. In comparison, a similar survey of patients receiving private care found they rated their satisfaction at 73 for inpatient care and 75 for outpatient care. The survey involved more than 200 veterans who received care at one of the VA’s 154 hospitals or 875 clinics. [cite.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/19/AR2006011902936.html) > [@](#): > > Medicare’s overhead is 2 to 3 percent while the overhead of private-sector insurance companies ranges from 15 to 30 percent. [cite](http://www.zmag.org/ZMag/articles/may01sullivan.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-hillary-wouldnt-be-a-socialist-dictator/394701/286 "2007-03-19T10:48:51Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] It was more than the two you mentioned: [/QUOTE] Three more. And I’ll gladly amend my statement to say that the Bituminous Coal Conservation Act of 1935, and a couple other programs, were ruled unconstitutional and therefore not within our nation’s framework. Other programs, such as the NLRB and Social Security and WPA, were within that framework. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-hillary-wouldnt-be-a-socialist-dictator/394701/287 "2007-03-19T16:21:05Z")
[QUOTE=Carol Stream] It was more than the two you mentioned: 1935 Jan 7: Panama Refining Co.v. Ryan, 293 U.S. 388 (1935) Held: National Industrial Recovery Act Sect. 9(c) unconstitutional 1935 May 6: Railroad Retirement Board V. Alton R. Co., 295 U.S. 330 (1935) Held: Railrod Retirement Act unconstitutional 1935 May 27: A.L.A. Schechter Poultry Corp. v. U.S., 295 U.S. 495 (1935) Held: National Industrial Recovery Act unconstitutional 1936 Jan 6: United States v. Butler, 297 U.S. 1 (1936) Held: Agricultural Adjustment Act unconstitutional 1936 May 18: Carter v. Carter Coal Co., 298 U.S. 238 (1936) Held: Bituminous Coal Conservation Act of 1935 unconstitutional 1937 Mar 29: West Coast Hotel Co. v. Parrish, 300 U.S. 379 (1937) Held: State of WA minimum wage law constitutional 1937 Apr 12: N.L.R.B. v. Jones & Laughlin Steel Corp., 301 U.S. 1 (1937) Held: NLRA constitutional 1937 May 24: Steward Machine Co. v. Davis, 301 U.S. 548 (1937) Held: Social Security tax constitutional [/QUOTE] Nice job of documentation – may I compliment you on arguing _with evidence_, even though it was against my position?! Some comments: _Panama_ and _Schechter_ together address one of my two listed items; _Butler_, the other. I noted there was one other I didn’t recall; that would be _Carter_, which I had drawn a blank on remembering when I posted. As regards _RRB v Alton RR_, you are correct that the Railroad Retirement Act of 1934 was in fact declared unconstitutional – owing to the fact that certain inseparable provisions in it were unconstitutional. These were corrected in the Railroad Retirement Acts of 1935 and 1937. (I was a bit surprised to learn this detail, as my grandfather and my uncle had retired on Railroad Retirement pensions.) So: points to you for an important detail, but longrange the New Deal policy of providing old-age pensions through Social Security and Railroad Retirment did pass constitutional muster. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2007, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-hillary-wouldnt-be-a-socialist-dictator/394701/288 "2007-03-19T16:28:43Z")
[QUOTE=Starving Artist] … I would be delighted if some sort of way could be found for government to pay for health care insurance coverage for everyone … everyone gets covered, the government pays the premiums and collects whatever taxes are necessary to do so … [/QUOTE] Socialist! 😛 CMC fnord! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-hillary-wouldnt-be-a-socialist-dictator/394701.md?page=14)