# Tell me why my son should not join the Marines **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 9, 2006, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622 "2006-03-09T01:05:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/61 "2006-03-09T18:07:50Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > they ship in supermodels for sex parties every weekend. But the Air Force flies 'em in, and you don’t want your son to get sloppy seconds, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Goob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c77e96/32.png) [@Mr.Goob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Goob)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/62 "2006-03-09T18:08:35Z")
I was like your kid. Joined the Navy and it was the best thing I ever did for myself. I know a lot of people that have never mentally left our hometown. I’ve been halfway around the world. To meet different people from all over the country was an eye opener. Talk to all the recruiters, even more than one for each branch. Get it in writing yadda yadda. My recruiter never lied to me. Didn’t tell me a bunch of stuff he could have, but never lied. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/63 "2006-03-09T18:14:27Z")
I guess I was already typing my response when **bup** said that he “misremembered” reports. Frankly, I think **bup** may be “misremembering” what was going through his head when he posted. Especially given the fact that what he said is apparently the _exact opposite_ of what the actual numbers show. But I do appreciate his retraction. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/64 "2006-03-09T18:23:00Z")
> [@NurseCarmen](#): > > But the Air Force flies 'em in, and you don’t want your son to get sloppy seconds, do you? Why would the AF fly them in? Supermodels are always hanging around AF bases. If an airman wants to sleep with a supermodel, he can just pick one of the dozen or so waiting in line at the BX. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/65 "2006-03-09T18:45:28Z")
My son joined the Marines about 2 years ago and is currently in Iraq. Needless to say I’m not thrilled about that but it was HIS choice…and he’s a man in his own right and makes his own decisions. Doesn’t mean I dont sit here worrying about it every day though. I’d say that the odds of your son joining up now and being shipped off are probably less than 50/50…by the time he’s through basic and fully trained there is a good chance they will be cutting back. Also, not EVERY Marine is sent to Iraq. All that said, if your son is more open to arguement than my own, I would suggest encouraging him to join one of the other services. My own recommendation (I’m biased though) is the Navy. I think he’ll get a lot better skill set out of a stint in the Navy…unless you think he wants to make this his career. JMHO. I feel for you though. -XT ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/66 "2006-03-09T18:45:46Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > Why would the AF fly them in? Supermodels are always hanging around AF bases. If an airman wants to sleep with a supermodel, he can just pick one of the dozen or so waiting in line at the BX. I must’ve been in the wrong Air Force. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Danalan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@Danalan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Danalan)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/67 "2006-03-09T18:51:40Z")
I’ve worked with both my sons, and my best friends son, to get them into an appropriate job in the military. One is Coast Guard, one is Army, one is Air Force. I’m a Navy vet. Here are my recommendations: 1. Study for the ASVAB, then be sure you take it after a good nights rest – not after a night of partying. If you fail to get a good score, study some more, harder, then take the test again. A high ASVAB (or whatever they call it now) is critical to placement in a decent position. Note that you may arrange to take the ASVAB with any service – you aren’t obligated to go with them. Drive your own car to the testing site, so you can leave when you want. After you take the test, excuse yourself from any ‘placement’ or further obligation to that service. If you do well in language skills, you will be asked to take the Defense Language Assessment – take it. If you do well, you’ll have an opportunity to spend 9-28 months learning a foreign language in Monterey, CA. 2. Once you have a high ASVAB score, shop the different services. They all have methods of taking control of the process – that’s fine until they try to lock you into something. That’s when you say no, thanks, you’re just looking. Treat it like car shopping, but with your life. Discover what jobs the services have available, and make a list of the ones that sound interesting. The variety is amazing. The Air Force has a job maintaining rockets, where you work ‘on’ for two weeks, then you’re off for two weeks. The Navy has some incredibly versatile high-tech jobs. There are interesting, good jobs available in all the services. 3. Prioritize your list of jobs by service, and go to the top service. Go through their placement process, and if they offer you training in the job you want, then sign up. If they try to put you in something else, walk out. You did drive your own car to the placement center, right? They will try to treat you like you have to do what they say, but you are a free civilian, and you can always express displeasure, say no, and walk away. Until you sign on the dotted line and raise your hand to take an oath, you are under no obligation. Get your training committment in writing. 4. Once you’re in, do your best. People can tell when you’re trying vs. when you’re phoning it in. If you’re earnest and are sincerely trying, you can go far. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/68 "2006-03-09T18:55:47Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > Frankly, I think **bup** may be “misremembering” what was going through his head when he posted. Especially given the fact that what he said is apparently the _exact opposite_ of what the actual numbers show. What do you think was going through my head when I posted? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/69 "2006-03-09T19:08:10Z")
> [@Danalan](#): > > If you do well in language skills, you will be asked to take the Defense Language Assessment – take it. If you do well, you’ll have an opportunity to spend 9-28 months learning a foreign language in Monterey, CA. You’re selling them on that 😕 Monterey was hell! Why, I actually had to walk uphill returning from class, or to go to the gym. Spending your days in a classroom, lots of free time; even the Marines were relaxed (which means they were more like Army, who was more like Navy…but no one took it as easy as us Zoomies). I remember it even getting down to 40 degrees (Farenheit) one morning. Couldn’t find my coat, it was horrible! I still have nightmares. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/70 "2006-03-09T19:12:27Z")
> [@Danalan](#): > > I’ve worked with both my sons, and my best friends son, to get them into an appropriate job in the military. One is Coast Guard, one is Army, one is Air Force. I’m a Navy vet. > > Here are my recommendations: > > 1. Study for the ASVAB, then be sure you take it after a good nights rest – not after a night of partying. If you fail to get a good score, study some more, harder, then take the test again. A high ASVAB (or whatever they call it now) is critical to placement in a decent position. Note that you may arrange to take the ASVAB with any service – you aren’t obligated to go with them. Drive your own car to the testing site, so you can leave when you want. After you take the test, excuse yourself from any ‘placement’ or further obligation to that service. If you do well in language skills, you will be asked to take the Defense Language Assessment – take it. If you do well, you’ll have an opportunity to spend 9-28 months learning a foreign language in Monterey, CA. > > 2. Once you have a high ASVAB score, shop the different services. They all have methods of taking control of the process – that’s fine until they try to lock you into something. That’s when you say no, thanks, you’re just looking. Treat it like car shopping, but with your life. Discover what jobs the services have available, and make a list of the ones that sound interesting. The variety is amazing. The Air Force has a job maintaining rockets, where you work ‘on’ for two weeks, then you’re off for two weeks. The Navy has some incredibly versatile high-tech jobs. There are interesting, good jobs available in all the services. > > 3. Prioritize your list of jobs by service, and go to the top service. Go through their placement process, and if they offer you training in the job you want, then sign up. If they try to put you in something else, walk out. You did drive your own car to the placement center, right? They will try to treat you like you have to do what they say, but you are a free civilian, and you can always express displeasure, say no, and walk away. Until you sign on the dotted line and raise your hand to take an oath, you are under no obligation. Get your training committment in writing. > > 4. Once you’re in, do your best. People can tell when you’re trying vs. when you’re phoning it in. If you’re earnest and are sincerely trying, you can go far. Great advice, I wish I had advice like this when I was 18. I kind of just went with the flow, got talked into the Nuke Program and then found out the Navy decides if you would be ET, EM or MM\*. I thought I was going ET. Part way through Boot Camp they told me I would be EM and there was nothing I could do about it. Well they were wrong, I could refuse to sign the 2 year extension that got you Nuke school and a Crow. I did my 4 years as an Electrician and departed. Despite this, I still think the Navy was good for me and I probably made the best friends I ever will. I saw Japan, Korea, Philippines, Hong Kong, Thailand and Singapore. Lived in San Diego for 3+ years and realized I liked the North East better. The EM training and good computer skills gain in the Navy got me a HVAC\* job when I got home that let me save up a lot of money to go back to school and become a Computer Programmer. So even, where the Navy\* screwed me over still worked out well in the end. Jim \* ET Electronic Technician EM = Electricians Mate MM = Machinist Mate. HVAC = Heating and Ventilation Mechanic NAVY = Never Again Volunteer Yourself 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/71 "2006-03-09T19:26:34Z")
> [@bup](#): > > What do you think was going through my head when I posted? I don’t know. But I doubt you were thinking about a report that said the exact opposite of what you posted. Again, I appreciate your retraction. But your post was ridiculous, the implication that the military is sending minorities to die while protecting whites is offensive, and I find it hard to believe that you were thinking about any actual report when you wrote it. ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/72 "2006-03-09T19:50:31Z")
> [@bup](#): > > It’s honest, at least on my part, but I was mistaken. Apparently I am misremembering some news reports from a few years ago that Colin Powell danced around regarding minorities in the military. The best I can find is that Hispanics disproportinately represent casualties in Iraq, solely because they are disproportinately represented in the Marine Corps. > > I retract my statement. Thanks for the retraction. However, it is noteworthy that Hispanics and blacks voluntarily raise their hand to swear in. They are disproportionally represented because they volunteer in greater numbers. Some may say that that is because of social inequality, but the truth is that it really doesn’t matter why they do so. The simple fact is that they opt to join of their own free will. I find that to be admirable. ---
**Author:** ![E72521](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@E72521](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E72521)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/73 "2006-03-09T20:01:38Z")
From [The New England Journal of Medicine](http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/351/1/13) : > [@](#): > > This study provides an initial look at the mental health of members of the Army and the Marine Corps who were involved in combat operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Our findings indicate that among the study groups there was a significant risk of mental health problems and that the subjects reported important barriers to receiving mental health services, particularly the perception of stigma among those most in need of such care. My Niece’s husband, a Marine, is finishing his last few months out in 29 Palms as a professional mortar launcher, a skill that has no value in the civilian world. During his four year stint, he spent two tours in Iraq. When there weren’t anymore mortars to launch, he got to be a grunt on patrol in under armored Hummers. He got to watch some of his buddies have limbs blown off, one burned to a crisp, and one blow his own brains out in the field shitter. He came home an angry, depressed, and physically abusive husband. He is a walking time bomb. He brags about the Muslims he got to kill. He is a proud killer. I have no doubt he will kill again. The services and the VA aren’t getting the job done regarding the mental and physical health of our veterans. To do so would be an admission that they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. Our society is filling up with like minded vets who have no idea how to deal with their hostility. When I was in the Army during the last years of the Vietnam Clusterfuck (I was Stateside until '79 thankyouverymuchgod), I got to see all the good things the military had to offer i.e., free college, steady employment during hard times, being made into an order obeying robot etc. etc. I was able to take that into civilian life and become a successful son, husband, and father. Today’s Army and Marines can’t offer that to our kids these days. They’re not committed enough to the welfare of their own people, and today’s soldiers our too brainwashed to understand that until it’s too late. A co-worker’s son joined the USCG last year. It was the greatest thing to ever happen to the kid. He’s not part of DoD, he’s an actual law enforcement officer, and he gets to protect his _own_ country. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/74 "2006-03-09T20:12:46Z")
> [@even sven](#): > > If he does join, **make sure he gets everything in writing from his recruiter. They will make promises they won’t or can’t keep**. They will tell him “Oh yeah, you’ll be in working in an air-conditioned office making phone calls, nowhere near the front” when in reality they mean “You will immediately be sent out to the front.” Unless you have something in writing, nothing the recruiter says can be counted on- your assignment, your likelihood of being in combat, anything… Seconded. In spades. I had to wait in the delayed entry program for my rate, and the recruiter was on the phone with me at least once a week… “If you come in now as a hull tech, you can switch specialties later to corpsman, if that’s still what you really want to do.” No, no, no, no, no. If he’s insistent about joining, make sure he gets everything in writing before he signs those final papers. And I would definitely recommend either the AF or the Navy over the Marines, both those services offer more options as far as specialty areas. If he’s directionless, he could do much worse than the military. Job training aside, you come away with more self discipline, self respect, confidence, you become more goal oriented; virtually every employer I’ve ever worked for sees the military experience on my resume as a plus. Now if only we could do away with the whole “getting your arse shot off” aspect. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/75 "2006-03-09T20:38:14Z")
> [@Age Quod Agis](#): > > I don’t know. But I doubt you were thinking about a report that said the exact opposite of what you posted. I acknowledged that I misremembered. > [@](#): > > Again, I appreciate your retraction. But your post was ridiculous, the implication that the military is sending minorities to die while protecting whites is offensive, and I find it hard to believe that you were thinking about any actual report when you wrote it. So your implication is that I stated something offensive that I knew was incorrect. I resent being called dishonest. What I was remembering may have been an article like this one: [http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi\_qa3812/is\_200303/ai\_n9229107](http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3812/is_200303/ai_n9229107) but I remembered also (perhaps incorrectly) Powell being in the uncomfortable position of having to defend the military for its historic track record of discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/76 "2006-03-09T21:30:55Z")
> [@bup](#): > > So your implication is that I stated something offensive that I knew was incorrect. > > I resent being called dishonest. The implication that I was trying to make was that you weren’t thinking at all. I’m of the opinion that no thinking person could make or believe such a statement. But more importantly, you’ve made an honorable retraction. That certainly shows that you’re honest. ---
**Author:** ![Bear\_Nenno](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bear_nenno/32/3358_2.png) [@Bear\_Nenno](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bear_Nenno)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/77 "2006-03-09T22:22:02Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > There are no benefits fom the military that cannot be gotten elsewhere … Show me a job that an average 18 year old can get right out of highschool that even comes _close_ to offering the money and benefits of the military. > [@](#): > > The worst part of getting sent to Iraq is that he won’t even be defending his country. He would be risking his life for nothing. Why does one need to be defending his _own_ country for his acts to be admirable?? I hear this crap all the freaking time. Recall that the Bill of Rights does not grant rights. It _recognizes_ the inalienable rights in all human beings. Every man and woman on earth has the same right to freedom and pursuit of happiness that Americans have. I’m sorry that some of the current population of Iraq are too short sighted to see or understand the positive changes that will begin to unfold once all this mess is over. If I go over there and die, it is not for the Iraqis living today. It’s for their children, their children’s children, and the countless generations of Iraqis who will live in a free and democratic country that we helped provide for them. It is their right, just as it is the right of all future generations of Americans. I, for one, consider that worth dieing for. “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” - Dr. M.L.K Jr. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/78 "2006-03-09T22:30:26Z")
> [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > Show me a job that an average 18 year old can get right out of highschool that even comes _close_ to offering the money and benefits of the military. > > Why does one need to be defending his _own_ country for his acts to be admirable?? I hear this crap all the freaking time. Recall that the Bill of Rights does not grant rights. It _recognizes_ the inalienable rights in all human beings. Every man and woman on earth has the same right to freedom and pursuit of happiness that Americans have. I’m sorry that some of the current population of Iraq are too short sighted to see or understand the positive changes that will begin to unfold once all this mess is over. If I go over there and die, it is not for the Iraqis living today. It’s for their children, their children’s children, and the countless generations of Iraqis who will live in a free and democratic country that we helped provide for them. It is their right, just as it is the right of all future generations of Americans. I, for one, consider that worth dieing for. > > “Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere” - Dr. M.L.K Jr. Applause ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/79 "2006-03-10T09:11:55Z")
you might have better luck remonstrating (assuming, arguendo, that we agree Iraq is the destination here) not about him getting killed (too much dissonance) but about the killing he will be called upon to do. Someone is blowing away those checkpoint misadventuring women and kids. I’ll bet you never forget the smell when you come up on the car you just hit with an rpg and find out it was full of kids… ---
**Author:** ![alaricthegoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4bbf92/32.png) [@alaricthegoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alaricthegoth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622/80 "2006-03-10T09:22:26Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > Thanks for the responses so far. I do NOT think he’s only joining because of his friend. I think that’s why he’s doing it at this time. > > No, he’s not talked ot any branch other than the Army/Marines. I’m looking for a number for an old friend of mine who is still, probably, a Navy recruiter and will give him the straight dope. > > He does have this young guy macho problem. Hard to overcome. > > And me a Humphrey-Carter Liberal. Go figure. 🙂 I take it that you have already inspected your basement,( being a good father, )and reluctantly concluded that it is unsuitable for chaining him up in until he comes to his senses. I would urge you to consider taking out a second mortgage and remodelling. Failing that, try lysergic acid (it saved my life–I was a stone cold violent ass prick) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-my-son-should-not-join-the-marines/347622.md?page=5)