# Tell me why Showgirls is a great film
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Tags:** movies
**Created:** [June 16, 2024, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940 "2024-06-16T13:02:24Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/21 "2024-06-16T14:44:41Z")
It’s almost a tolerable film if you watch the the VIP edition with snarky commentary by David Schmader. I have stolen his phrase “density of failure” many times since.
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### Author:  [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/22 "2024-06-16T14:47:02Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> He’s made really good movies too.
>
> - Robocop
> - Elle
> - Basic Instinct
> - Starship Troopers
> - Total Recall
Never saw Elle.
Liked Robocop. The formula worked there.
Basic Instinct not a good movie. Does not hold up.
Starship Troopers another bad movie that’s supposed to be good because it’s bad.
Total Recall fun and cheesy but I wouldn’t call it really good. It’s a fun goofy popcorn movie.
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### Author:  [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/23 "2024-06-16T14:49:37Z")
Hardly the first time a director came over from Europe to tell Americans that they’re a bunch of pigs: Von Stroheim and Douglas Sirk had made that its own genre.
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### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/24 "2024-06-16T15:21:22Z")
> [@griffin1977](#):
>
> As with all Verhoeven movies (most especially Starship Troopers) the argument is that all those terrible aspects of the movie are actually parody, and by complaining about them you just “don’t get it”
I only provisionally dislike bad movies. It’s important to wait for laudatory reviews that find existential significance in bad films, so you can revise your opinion.
/s
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### Author:  [@griffin1977](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/griffin1977)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/25 "2024-06-16T15:29:29Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> He’s made really good movies too
But that makes this even more true…
> [@Loach](#):
>
> . When he does it several times it’s because he’s just making bad movies
That very same director has made a satire like RoboCop, that shows a film can be a biting social satire that uses ridiculous over the top scenarios to make real commentary on modern society AND be an enjoyable well made movie. So I’m not buying it when he churns out utter drivel (like Showgirls and yes, Starship Troopers) where every line of dialogue is so bad it makes you want to turn it off immediately and forget you ever heard it, and claims it’s because"satire"
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### Author:  [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/26 "2024-06-16T17:39:40Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> He’s made really good movies too.
>
> - Robocop
> - Elle
> - Basic Instinct
> - Starship Troopers
> - Total Recall
I found _Soldier of Orange_ (1977), _The Fourth Man_ (1983) and _Black Book_ (2006) generally worthwhile viewing. I don’t recall being able to get past the 15 minute mark the one and only time I tried to watch _Showgirls_.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/27 "2024-06-16T18:10:08Z")
I didn’t mean to suggest _Showgirls_ was good. It’s been ages but I don’t think I got far before turning it off either. But the director was not a compete hack and did some worthwhile movies too.
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/28 "2024-06-16T18:20:30Z")
> [@Loach](#):
>
> Liked Robocop. The formula worked there.
> Basic Instinct not a good movie. Does not hold up.
> Starship Troopers another bad movie that’s supposed to be good because it’s bad.
> Total Recall fun and cheesy but I wouldn’t call it really good. It’s a fun goofy popcorn movie.
_Robocop_ is a transparent satire of not only Reaganomics, but what the entire approach did to filmmaking. Verhoeven had read the script and was going to pass on it when his wife (who started reading it as well) noted how unintentionally funny it was, and in particular that the only sympathetic figure of the film was a character who had literally been deumanized. It basically set the stage for Verhoeven’s approach to his career as a Hollywood studio director, critiquing both the industry and the moviegoing public alike, although both parties missed the mark in understanding the satire and latching on to the ultraviolent and salacious elements of the film.
_Basic Instinct_ is a “thriller” that is basically making fun of the audience for being voyeuristic. If you’ve watched it more than once you’ve definitely missed the point, which is basically that you shouldn’t feel good about watching this completely unrealistic story about a character that is basically seductive evil personified. _Starship Troopers_ exists essentially to mock the jingoism of the source material (not without merit). Unfortunately, instead of taking the material straight and finding the satire in it, it essentially just takes the title and the names of a few characters and crafts a film that is chock full of unwatchable performances, bad special effects, and pointless plot twists that isn’t even relatable to Heinlein’s novel, so the satire misses the mark (even for those familiar with source material), and it is just a terrible movie.
_Total Recall_ (based in part from the Philip K. Dick story “We Can Remember It For You Wholesale”) meditation on the solipsism of internal experience and filtered perception, turned into a standard Schwarzenegger film full of ridiculous dialogue and absurd levels of violence. It was a blockbuster hit in the summer of 1990 and had a lot of eminently quotable lines and memorable scenes, but underneath all of the spectacle there is a much better story struggling to be told. Unfortunately, the 2012 remake didn’t find it either, and aside from the production design doesn’t have anything to recommend it.
Verhoeven is a really good director (as _Soldier of Orange_ and _Black Book_ shows) who really didn’t like the Hollywood machine or the kind of movies they paid him a lot of money to make, so he made films that were progressively more mocking and absurd, and not coincidentally successively more unwatchable.
I have not watched _Showgirls_ but I’ve seen interviews with both Elizabeth Berkeley and Kyle MacLaclan who still seemed to think they made a good film, so I’m sure that people are missing the point that the actors and director was trying to make, but just because a film has some kind of satirical statement does not make it a good film.
Stranger
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### Author:  [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/29 "2024-06-16T19:26:19Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> _Starship Troopers_ exists essentially to mock the jingoism of the source material (not without merit). Unfortunately, instead of taking the material straight and finding the satire in it, it essentially just takes the title and the names of a few characters and crafts a film that is chock full of unwatchable performances, bad special effects, and pointless plot twists that isn’t even relatable to Heinlein’s novel, so the satire misses the mark (even for those familiar with source material), and it is just a terrible movie.
I don’t know that I agree with all of this – I haven’t even read the novel – but it misses what I consider the true significance of the film, namely: it’s the greatest giant bug movie ever made. I don’t even like bug movies, let alone giant bug movies, but I have to respect _Starship Troopers_ for this accomplishment. I suspect it was a conscious goal, at least among certain members of the crew.
The bugs are big, mean and CG-gnarly, allowing the cast to blow the shit out of them repeatedly (if not always convincingly). That is the critical _raison d’etre_ of the giant bug movie genre. There is no other film that can compare when it comes to variety and overall numbers of giant bugs onscreen or frequency/dramatic intensity of scenes where giant bugs menace humans, suck brains and/or get blown away.
Needless to say, that doesn’t make it a good or likable flick, but (for some) it transcends the film’s other deficiencies.
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### Author:  [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/30 "2024-06-16T20:06:25Z")
Never seen the movie but I do recall that there was some poster on the website, a decade ago, who was convinced that it was the greatest film ever made and he waxed poetically about it many many times.
If you search the archives, you might find his posts and maybe it will jog some idea in your mind.
All I recall from it was the assertion that it was satire and, if you understood that, then…
This was the same argument for Starship Troopers, which I have seen, and while I’m willing to accept that it’s satire, I think you could probably only find it biting if you stopped advancing in ethical/political introspection at 12. It ain’t no Dr. Strangelove.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/31 "2024-06-16T20:09:39Z")
You probably mean **lissener** [who I quoted above](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/5). He never said it was the greatest, but he did defend why it was actually good, at least to him.
Me, I don’t think it is good or as bad as many make it out to be. It is mediocre at best though.
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### Author:  [@Spiff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiff)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/32 "2024-06-16T20:11:57Z")
It’s also the best [I]vagina dentata[/I] movie ever.
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### Author:  [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/33 "2024-06-16T20:13:38Z")
> [@Dropo](#):
>
> don’t know that I agree with all of this – I haven’t even read the novel – but it misses what I consider the true significance of the film, namely: it’s the greatest giant bug movie ever made. I don’t even like bug movies, let alone giant bug movies, but I have to respect _Starship Troopers_ for this accomplishment.
Really?
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iu3yxVcpEdY)
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVmu6uHEDHI)
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWhn6Qf_PmA)
Stranger
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/34 "2024-06-16T20:19:13Z")
I have to side with @Stranger_On_A_Train on this one. _ **Aliens** _ is a far better movie in everyway including Bug Hunt.
But the Book for **Starship Troopers** is far better than **Aliens**. I did read the Alan Dean Foster novelization and it was forgettable. Even if you have problems with **Starship Troopers** , I doubt anyone would accuse it of being forgettable.
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### Author:  [@Dropo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dropo)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/35 "2024-06-16T20:37:19Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> Really?
The operative word in “giant bug movie” is “giant.” Except for the Alien queen, the xenomorphs in _Aliens_ are not giant, they’re just a little bigger than humans. And there is only one queen, as opposed to hundreds of giant bugs in _Starship Troopers_.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgq0ecMHfzc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgq0ecMHfzc)
Blurred for grisliness.
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### Author:  [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/36 "2024-06-16T21:07:36Z")
> [@GailForce](#):
>
> No, nothing to do with Las Vegas, strippers, Saved by the Bell, nothing to do with anything on the surface of the movie. It was far more profound than any of that, like the film had a meta-meaning of some sort. That’s what’s so frustrating about trying to recall what I was thinking. It was almost purely intellectual and pretty far-fetched
That by starring in the film Elizabeth Berkley was actually undergoing the sexual debasement her character portrayed?
ETA: similar to how starring in _9½ Weeks_ actually was an exercise in masochism for Kim Bassinger.
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### Author:  [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)
#### Post date: [June 16, 2024, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/37 "2024-06-16T21:28:37Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#):
>
> _Basic Instinct_ is a “thriller” that is basically making fun of the audience for being voyeuristic. If you’ve watched it more than once you’ve definitely missed the point, which is basically that you shouldn’t feel good about watching this completely unrealistic story about a character that is basically seductive evil personified.
So I should watch a movie that either 1) I appreciate because I hate it or 2) I should be ashamed of myself for liking.
The only way that would work is if they gave every patron their money back after watching it, and then told them if they want to see it again they’d have to pay for it.
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2024, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/38 "2024-06-17T00:58:42Z")
That is definitely a better movie but I never thought of the aliens as bugs (insects) either.
Minor nitpick.
I did enjoy _Starship Troopers_ though. It won’t win awards but it was a fun watch for me.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2024, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/39 "2024-06-17T01:01:21Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> I did enjoy _Starship Troopers_ though. It won’t win awards but it was a fun watch for me.
Yeah, it had fun moments. So did Showgirls. Neither was bad, but neither were good either.
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### Author:  [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)
#### Post date: [June 17, 2024, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-why-showgirls-is-a-great-film/1002940/40 "2024-06-17T08:00:10Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#):
>
> That is definitely a better movie but I never thought of the aliens as bugs (insects) either.
The marines did, though 🙂
“Is this going to be a stand-up fight, Sir, or another bug-hunt?”
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