# Tell me your kid (or you) turned out okay after this kind of atrocious behavior **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 27, 2015, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683 "2015-04-27T23:54:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/61 "2015-04-28T14:34:23Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > What makes you think she’s going to start doing her homework if she’s put in a different class? > > If you think she’s not doing it because she can’t, I’ll clarify that this is definitely _not_ the problem. So leave her alone and let her do it without interference. Being able to do the homework means her actually doing it, alone, without you prodding her along. Let the teacher get an accurate reading of what’s going on and adjust as needed. By overhelping, you are obfuscating her situation and while you can probably keep her propped up grade-wise for now, this will not serve either of you well in middle or high school. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/62 "2015-04-28T14:38:04Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > What makes you think she’s going to start doing her homework if she’s put in a different class? > > If you think she’s not doing it because she can’t, I’ll clarify that this is definitely _not_ the problem. She’s not turning in homework in her current environment. She might in a different one. You’ve said she’s super smart, so low intelligence doesn’t explain it. But immaturity might. Maybe she needs a teacher who doesn’t expect her to act her IQ. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/63 "2015-04-28T14:50:47Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > “Can’t” encompasses more than ability to to understand and produce the work. “Can’t” includes emotional readiness, organizational skills and the will to do the work. Most of us have something that, if we wanted to/tried to, we could, but in reality, we just can’t even. Y’know? Exactly. My daughter is gifted and ADHD, and has severe anxiety as well. She scores 99th percentile on placement tests, but her ability to complete the expected output of someone her age is far lower than probably any other kid in her grade in her school, and she needs various types of accommodations and support for that. She’s doing pretty well in school now, but left on her own she’d never get a thing done, not because she won’t but because she literally _can’t_…due to these other issues that have nothing to do with intelligence. IQ is way way overrated IMO and only a small piece of the puzzle when it comes to academic (and life) success. I am now starting to suspect my 8 year old has some milder anxiety, and some of his behaviors that have tipped me off sound like your daughter. I would try taking her to a pediatrician who specializes in behavior issues and see what they think…there may be some interventions that will help her. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/64 "2015-04-28T14:57:39Z")
I’ll just add in this, I guess. Whatever else I may think about the homework issue, one inescapable fact is there’s another parent in the household who is pretty damn Type A about this and won’t stop being so any time soon, if I know her well at all (and I’d better!). Not making sure homework is finished—this won’t happen, even if it _should_ happen (and that’s not to say I think it should). That’s a dead end. ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/65 "2015-04-28T15:18:11Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > This touches on my beef with gifted education. From the sound of it, your daughter is not performing at a gifted level but you see taking her out of gifted classes as a form of punishment–even though she’s not displaying any strong affinity to it through her behavior. The way I see it, you’d be taking her out of an environment that she’s performing poorly under and placing her in one where she might thrive. Your daughter isn’t a test score. Her intellect is just as much a function of her emotional maturity as it is her cognition. If she’s not fulfilling her potential in an accelerated environment, that means that environment may be too accelerated for her. > > If her test scores are truly exceptional, she would be eligible to re-enroll in the gifted program later, correct? > > The function of a gifted program isn’t about giving smart kids super high self-esteem. If your daughter’s self-esteem suffers because she’s forced to rub shoulders with the “normals”, then I have to wonder just what the hell she’s been taught to value in herself. But I’m guessing she probably doesn’t put as much stock in being a “smart kid” as you think she does, as evidenced by her current lack of care about school. If she’s not upset by bad grades, why would she be especially upset that she doesn’t go to the same school as her siblings? > > If this daughter in the “middle” of your big family? If so, that’s all the more reason to be extra hungry for attention. It doesn’t sound to me like the homework problem is school-related at all. This child’s tolerance for frustration is constantly maxed out, and she manifests through meltdowns and intransigence. Why is still in question. We don’t even know whether the homework problem is a demand for attention, a blood-sugar drop at the particular time of day homework is done, or even lack of quality sleep. Changing her school environment would only muddy the symptoms and make further investigation into the root problem more difficult. Even once she re-adjusts, new symptoms may crop up due to boredom. Making schoolwork easier nearly always results in behavior problems for gifted kids. And no, in practice most gifted programs are full. If she leaves, someone from the waiting list comes in, and she may not get another chance. > [@monstro](#): > > This touches on my beef with gifted education. > > . . . > > Your daughter isn’t a test score. Her intellect is just as much a function of her emotional maturity as it is her cognition. If she’s not fulfilling her potential in an accelerated environment, that means that environment may be too accelerated for her. > . . … So the solution is to move her to an environment which can not possibly support her fulfilling her full potential? The OP has assured us that it is not too accelerated for her. It is very common for outsiders to respond that parents of gifted kids are “pushing them too hard” or need to “give them a break.” The truth is that gifted kids enjoy learning and are motivated by challenge. It is far more likely that her accelerated classes are not accelerated enough. If you give my daughter a choice of magazines at the library, she’ll pick up the latest copy of the Journal “Nature” and anything with Katy Perry on the cover. Having skimmed quickly through the photos of Katy’s latest outfits, she’ll get on to exploring what scientists have found out lately and how they proved it. She’ll stick with that for hours. And for the reasons I have already given, gifted children are often emotionally challenged. Brilliance brings it’s own difficulties, and is very often co-morbid with sensory and emotional sensitivities. [http://calgaryherald.com/storyline/the-dark-side-of-being-a-gifted-kid](http://calgaryherald.com/storyline/the-dark-side-of-being-a-gifted-kid) It does appear that she needs help with study skills and diligence. I’ve been struggling with teaching/instilling diligence myself. I find that it works best with physical tasks, like working in the yard, or learning to spin a top. Things where it’s kinda tough the first few times, but if you do it over again you begin to see your muscles picking up the speed and coordination with repetition. Then I remind her of this when she’s doing yet another homework problem on something she already knows how to do. We refer to building her “multiplication muscles” as we drill multiplication tables, for instance. Learning is fun the first time, catching a new concept is invigorating. Practicing it is particularly stultifying for gifted kids. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/66 "2015-04-28T15:20:37Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I’ll just add in this, I guess. Whatever else I may think about the homework issue, one inescapable fact is there’s another parent in the household who is pretty damn Type A about this and won’t stop being so any time soon, if I know her well at all (and I’d better!). Not making sure homework is finished—this won’t happen, even if it _should_ happen (and that’s not to say I think it should). > > That’s a dead end. That is all the more reason to put her in a classroom with a lower homework burden. It cant be good for your other kids if you two are spending excessive energy over homework assignments. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/67 "2015-04-28T15:29:22Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > When I talked to her about it afterwards, she maintained, without flinching, that everyone was yelling at her for no reason. No, she said, she hadn’t raised her voice at all. The screaming? Nope. Didn’t happen. > > That brings me to another thing. She is either a very stubborn liar (and pretty damned good actor if I can try to sort of say something good about how she behaves) or she is utterly unaware of her own actions as she is performing those very actions. She will report _to me_ that _I myself_ said things (for example, giving permissions for exceptions to rules) whichI did not say, and will maintain it with utter resolve–_to my very face_. Again, it’s not her telling her mom that I said something, it’s even worse: She’s telling _me_ I said it. I had a friend whose child was like this: any time he was in trouble, he’d manage to recast it into a who-said-what argument. And it worked. Every time. You would sit there and watch him punch all his mother’s buttons - “You _said_ I could hit my brother!” “No, I never said that.” “Yes you _did_! You said so!” - he’d ramp up her frustration, divert the argument into being about what she’d really said, so much that in exasperation she’d send him to his room or whatever and he’d stomp off in “victory”. The key was to not even engage in that argument. Don’t allow yourself to be diverted onto the defensive, arguing about what you said. Keep repeating what she did wrong, repeat what the rules are, and what the punishment is. “You hit your brother. We don’t hit each other. You go to your room with no electronics if you hit someone.” DO NOT deny or argue or engage when she claims you said otherwise. Repeat the same “You hit your brother. We don’t hit each other. Go to your room, no electronics.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/68 "2015-04-28T15:41:46Z")
In some respects the OP’s child sounds like a mixture of our daughters’ worst attributes. Tracy (not real name) is almost 11. She is incredibly bright, focused, and full of initiative. She takes school seriously, is an accomplished athlete, and is obviously headed for big things; she’s also judgmental, confrontational, can be mean to her younger sister, and perceives persecution and unfairness in everything. If she wants to help great. If she doesn’t, she will argue any point beyond the limits of absurdity. Mary (obviously also not real name) is nine and a half. She is kind hearted, generous, a remarkable reader who can spell with the 13-year-olds. She’s also utterly without focus or any sort of competitive drive; she would prefer, whenever possible, to do nothing at all. Despite ADD counselling and pills she doesn’t really concentrate on anything and refuses to take chances or learn things if she can possibly avoid it. She’s timid to a fault. She’s happy 95% of the time and then suddenly bursts into uncontrollable tears. They’re just completely different children, and figuring out how to make them happy, productive members of society is a hell of a challenge. I love them with all my heart but I’d be lying if I said they don’t piss me off. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/69 "2015-04-28T16:00:16Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I’ll just add in this, I guess. Whatever else I may think about the homework issue, one inescapable fact is there’s another parent in the household who is pretty damn Type A about this and won’t stop being so any time soon, if I know her well at all (and I’d better!). Not making sure homework is finished—this won’t happen, even if it _should_ happen (and that’s not to say I think it should). > > That’s a dead end. Maybe you can’t stop your wife, but you don’t have to participate. Spend time with your daughter doing something you both enjoy instead. Watch a movie, play a game, take her rollerskating, read a book, etc. Being unlikeable is a major handicap in life, so help your daughter be more pleasant to be around. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/70 "2015-04-28T16:06:49Z")
And while your wife is unpleasantly engaging with this child, do some also-unpleasant household chore so your wife can’t complain about you escaping the work. Scrubbing toilets is much better than 7-year-old homework time. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/71 "2015-04-28T18:08:49Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > She wants attention. Ignore her when she acts out. I would agree with this, with the added advice of “pay lots of attention when she does stuff you want her to do.” Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/72 "2015-04-28T18:26:21Z")
Let me just repeat that there are many reasons a high-IQ child doesn’t complete work. They may have focus problems, they may have processing problems, they may have anxiety, there are a million possible reasons. If you wife is haranguing the child about homework without knowing if there is a good, legitimate reason for the non-completion, that may be the explanation for why she’s acting out. ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/73 "2015-04-28T18:35:05Z")
As far as the screaming after getting tapped: I once read a parenting book (decades ago, while I was babysitting) and it said that “an 8-year-old girl with a skinned knee can outscreech a gutshot panther”. Years of experience have taught me that a boy of the same age can do the same. ---
**Author:** ![Barrett\_Bonden](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/5e9695/32.png) [@Barrett\_Bonden](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Barrett_Bonden)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/74 "2015-04-28T18:37:07Z")
**Frylock** , I understand why you are frustrated. Your daughter sounds like quite a handful. My through-the-laptop diagnosis (free, worth what you paid) is that she has a tendency to be dramatic, but is also signalling distress at something she cannot understand/control/express. There are many good suggestions in this thread about positive reinforcement and humor. You also sound as though you are stretched very thin. Is there anything you can subtract from your overall situation to allow yourself a little more breathing room? Perhaps if you can find some way to let up on yourself mentally and even physically, you will also find improvements (and more humor) in your outlook and interactions. (I know, easier said than done. . .) ---
**Author:** ![purplehearingaid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/7bcc69/32.png) [@purplehearingaid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehearingaid)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/75 "2015-04-28T18:53:10Z")
She could be reaching puberty and some kids will start showing signs ‘bad’ of behavior . You should bring your child in for check up and made sure nothing else is going on that you’re NOT aware of. Kids don’t just acting atrocious for no reasons. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/76 "2015-04-28T19:03:20Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > So the solution is to move her to an environment which can not possibly support her fulfilling her full potential? You make it sound like taking her being non-gifted classes amounts to intellectual neglect. Millions of kids–many of whom are smart and talented–reach their full potential despite not being in this kind of program. But I agree with you that this doesn’t really sound like the real problem. ---
**Author:** ![you\_with\_the\_face](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/ecccb3/32.png) [@you\_with\_the\_face](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/you_with_the_face)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/77 "2015-04-28T19:33:40Z")
My question to the OP is how long has her personality presented this way? Have these traits suddenly surfaced or has she always been this way? The answer to this question may provide insight into how permanent this is. It’s got to be tough to have a child that you simply can’t relate to, so I’m sorry you’re going through this. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/78 "2015-04-28T21:17:42Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > a vicious lack of charity. There seems to be a lot of this going around lately. ☹ > [@WhyNot](#): > > Most of us have something that, if we wanted to/tried to, we could, but in reality, we just can’t even. Was there supposed to be more to this sentence? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/79 "2015-04-28T23:01:18Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > Having a gifted child is often like having a disabled child, only you get shamed if you try to talk about it. It’s very difficult to find a forum in which parents of gifted children can discuss the challenges without a slew of competitive twits jumping in to assure us that our kids aren’t really special and we are just sneak-bragging. The hurdles are many and unpredictable. Just the sheer mental exhaustion of keeping up with their questions and advanced schoolwork will do you in, without even including the daily work of caring for the needs of a child and running a household. That’s very true. I have read that having a prodigy in the family can have the same effect on sibling relationships and marriages as a child with conditions like cancer or Down syndrome. I find it quite believable, too. ---
**Author:** ![Omega\_Glory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7c8e57/32.png) [@Omega\_Glory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omega_Glory)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2015, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683/80 "2015-04-28T23:50:44Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > I agree with this. ☹ ☹ ☹ ☹ ☹ At least it’s a point in favor of her turning out okay, if/when the circumstances around her change. Maybe helping her recognize when she’s starting to feel overwhelmed and giving her ways to calm down before she hits the breaking point would do some good. Is there a school counselor who could meet with her during the school day and give you some tips and insight later? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-me-your-kid-or-you-turned-out-okay-after-this-kind-of-atrocious-behavior/718683.md?page=5)