# Tell tale signs to police that drugs are likely to be present in a stopped car **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 8, 2009, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353 "2009-01-08T08:28:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Renee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/renee/32/287_2.png) [@Renee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Renee)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/41 "2009-01-09T06:56:59Z")
This thread is making me feel like a total goodie-two-shoes. Smoking in your car? On the sidewalk?! Madness! ---
**Author:** ![Jamicat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c67d28/32.png) [@Jamicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jamicat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/42 "2009-01-09T11:48:24Z")
TURN THAT SHIT OFF…😉 [![](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8&eurl=http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=turn%20that%20shit%20off&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:officialiurl=http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/uj0mtxXEGE8/hqdefault.jpg) ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8&eurl=http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=turn%20that%20shit%20off&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:officialiurl=http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/uj0mtxXEGE8/hqdefault.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/43 "2009-01-09T13:08:23Z")
I drive an old Chevy POS to work, but I think the FedGov parking pass on the windshield and the license plate that identifies me as a firefighter have done a lot to shy away the stops for recreational pharmacology. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/44 "2009-01-09T13:28:33Z")
I am a big guy. I am obviously working class. And I walk/drive/catch a train home alone late at night. The cops always used to give me a bit of a longer than usual glance. Then I took to wearing my reflective safety vest to and from work instead of leaving it in my locker. The change was immediate. Late night cops on the street would just look straight through me as though I wasn’t there. Similarly, groups of young, drunk men would no longer posture and size me up. Transit police on the train would wave me away when I went to produce my ticket. People had seemingly stopped registering me mentally as a lad about town at night, possibly intoxicated, possibly criminal, or possibly looking for a fight, and had started to write me off as just a tired worker going home and of no interest to them. I’ve also long had a theory that if I were a thief casing shopping mall car parks for vehicles to steal or steal from, I should be sure to carry a few bags of groceries with me. It’s instant “average decent person” camouflage. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/45 "2009-01-09T13:50:19Z")
While I don’t doubt that driver behavior is a significant factor (as anyone who watches Cops can attest), many police department profile cars as a matter of written policy and know they’re looking for drugs before they even get out of their cars for the stop. Indeed, if you look at the history of racial profiling litigation in New Jersey, Maryland, etc., you see that many police departments had/have a profiling algorithm. If four or more of the following factors are present, the officer will attempt to make a stop and be seeking PC or consent to search: Black or Hispanic race; 20-40 years-old; male; out-of-state plates (esp. AZ, TX, NM); 3+ occupants in car. ---
**Author:** ![SeanArenas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeanArenas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeanArenas)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/46 "2009-01-09T13:55:27Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > I am a big guy. [snip] Then I took to wearing my reflective safety vest to and from work instead of leaving it in my locker. The change was immediate. [snip] groups of young, drunk men would no longer posture and size me up. Isn’t that weird? When young men get drunk, they feel the need to mess with someone twice their size. I see it all the time. Fortunately, I don’t get that way when I get drunk. ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/47 "2009-01-09T14:24:04Z")
> [@SeanArenas](#): > > Isn’t that weird? When young men get drunk, they feel the need to mess with someone twice their size. I see it all the time. Fortunately, I don’t get that way when I get drunk. Well, there are normally more than one of them. It’s very strange - on one hand, my physical size is a comfort to me in bad neighbourhoods, but on the other hand, I’m not complacent. There has been many a famous boxer who - as an old man - has been beaten up by young punks, and the same goes for big guys. I’m a pussycat and I’m not at all handy with my fists (I don’t think - never tried), so it pays to be wary. ---
**Author:** ![luvrbcs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@luvrbcs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/luvrbcs)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/48 "2009-01-09T15:51:12Z")
Based on profiling, do you think I would I get pulled over? I am 53 y/o Caucasian, medium length grey/silver hair and drive a 2007 Mustang with hood scoop and medium loud pipes. Or, will they think I am an old man with a midlife crisis (which is true) and leave me alone. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/49 "2009-01-09T16:02:56Z")
> [@luvrbcs](#): > > Based on profiling, do you think I would I get pulled over? > > I am 53 y/o Caucasian, medium length grey/silver hair and drive a 2007 Mustang with hood scoop and medium loud pipes. > > Or, will they think I am an old man with a midlife crisis (which is true) and leave me alone. If they only see the car you might well get pulled, if there’s enough daylight and line of sight to see you clearly you’ll probably be left alone. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/50 "2009-01-09T16:17:17Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > Let me translate: We dunno what the Supreme Court will someday rule on the issue–in the meantime, it depends on a few different factors: > > 1. Whether the human police agents did anything to encourage the dog to enter the car (most cases say that if they didn’t, it’s probably ok). > > 2. The jurisdiction in which you are being tried. Courts are all over the place on this–two state or federal district courts could reach opposite conclusions based on the same fact pattern. > > 3. For now, maybe even which judge is hearing the motion to suppress. There is little binding precedent on point. In many cases, it’s going to be up to the trial judge. If you have a moment, look up People v. Lefler, 294 Ill. App. 3d 305, 689 N.E.2d 1209 (1998). It’s one of the more cleverly written opinions ever. Among the issues on appeal were ineffective assistance and improperly admitted evidence on the meaning of the behavior of a police dog named Cain. I was hooked with the opening sentence: > [@](#): > > This case features the mark of Cain and questions whether counsel was able. It’s not precisely on point for drug dog info; this was a bloodhound/tracking dog. But it does highlight the potential subjectivity of dog behavior when such behavior is admitted to establish facts at issue. And it’s an awesome read. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/51 "2009-01-09T16:18:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you have a moment, look up People v. Lefler, 294 Ill. App. 3d 305, 689 N.E.2d 1209 (1998). I’ll do that a bit later today. Thanks. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Improvisor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/50afbb/32.png) [@Improvisor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Improvisor)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/52 "2009-01-09T20:55:53Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > Then I took to wearing my reflective safety vest to and from work instead of leaving it in my locker. The change was immediate. > > I’ve also long had a theory that if I were a thief casing shopping mall car parks for vehicles to steal or steal from, I should be sure to carry a few bags of groceries with me. It’s instant “average decent person” camouflage. Tell me about it. I used to work this job for a maintenance service that required access to alot of what some would think of as ‘secure-ish’ type places. All I really needed to do my job was a clip board and a few tools I could carry in my pocket, so that is what I would bring. People would always be giving me the eye, asking what I was doing, under whose authority, etc. I started to wear my hard hat and carry my full tool box, and I instantly became ‘invisible’. People just assumed I had the right to be there. I swear, if you ever wanted to break into a place, just buy a hard hat and toolbox, and act confident. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/53 "2009-01-09T22:46:47Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If you have a moment, look up People v. Lefler, 294 Ill. App. 3d 305, 689 N.E.2d 1209 (1998). Cool case: [Illinois](http://www.state.il.us/court/Opinions/AppellateCourt/1998/5thDistrict/January/WP/5950331.doc) HTML version: [http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:sEwRA\_rQUGIJ:www.state.il.us/court/Opinions/AppellateCourt/1998/5thDistrict/January/WP/5950331.doc+People+v.+Lefler&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a](http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:sEwRA_rQUGIJ:www.state.il.us/court/Opinions/AppellateCourt/1998/5thDistrict/January/WP/5950331.doc+People+v.+Lefler&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us&client=firefox-a) ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/54 "2009-01-09T23:08:38Z")
As a defendant are you allowed to cross-examine the dog? If the dog refuses to answer you, are you deprived of your right to confront witnesses against you? ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/55 "2009-01-09T23:24:05Z")
> [@Jamicat](#): > > TURN THAT SHIT OFF…😉 > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8&eurl=http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=turn%20that%20shit%20off&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:officialiurl=http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/uj0mtxXEGE8/hqdefault.jpg](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8&eurl=http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=turn%20that%20shit%20off&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:officialiurl=http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/uj0mtxXEGE8/hqdefault.jpg) Oh my God, that video is hilarious! Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/56 "2009-01-09T23:39:20Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > As a defendant are you allowed to cross-examine the dog? If the dog refuses to answer you, are you deprived of your right to confront witnesses against you? No, but you can ask to see the dog’s discipline records. Seriously. I saw a hotshot wrote-the-book-on-it defense lawyer (literally, he wrote a top selling manual for Texas defense attorneys) ask for them in court. I got a mental image of what they must look like: “Aug 8, 2008: Corporal Rusty disciplined for chewing holster. Action: Told bad dog, swatted on nose with rolled up incident report. Docked one milk bone.” ---
**Author:** ![Anachronism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Anachronism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anachronism)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/57 "2009-01-10T13:14:18Z")
> [@TheLoadedDog](#): > > I am a big guy. I am obviously working class. And I walk/drive/catch a train home alone late at night. The cops always used to give me a bit of a longer than usual glance. > > Then I took to wearing my reflective safety vest to and from work instead of leaving it in my locker. The change was immediate. Late night cops on the street would just look straight through me as though I wasn’t there. Similarly, groups of young, drunk men would no longer posture and size me up. Transit police on the train would wave me away when I went to produce my ticket. People had seemingly stopped registering me mentally as a lad about town at night, possibly intoxicated, possibly criminal, or possibly looking for a fight, and had started to write me off as just a tired worker going home and of no interest to them. > > I’ve also long had a theory that if I were a thief casing shopping mall car parks for vehicles to steal or steal from, I should be sure to carry a few bags of groceries with me. It’s instant “average decent person” camouflage. Interesting. I used to work an early morning shift (3am) and was constantly pulled over randomly. The cops didn’t seem to notice I was dressed in a blue collar work uniform and had a travel mug of coffee. Usually they just check your info and let you go, but unfortunately sometimes the felt compelled to write a BS ticket, totally sucks with the ridiculous insurance rates in my state. One night the police followed me into my company parking lot (they did not turn on the blues until we where in the lot), blocked my car in after I parked,screamed at me for getting out of the car and generally treated my like a dangerous criminal. The company is obviously a 24 hour operation :rolleyes: . My violation - driving with (factory) fog lights on in addition to headlights. I now go in for 1am and have not been pulled over in two years. ---
**Author:** ![Anachronism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Anachronism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anachronism)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2009, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353/58 "2009-01-10T13:22:02Z")
Missed the edit window - I should add that everyone who went in for 3-4am complained about being randomly pulled over very frequently and if you had an older crappier car it was much worse. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-tale-signs-to-police-that-drugs-are-likely-to-be-present-in-a-stopped-car/480353.md?page=2)