# Tell us an interesting random fact you stumbled across (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 13, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674 "2020-04-13T03:19:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 452
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9031 "2024-02-23T04:01:22Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > The same S was used in English in Shakespeare’s works, btw, and has simply been suplanted by the “modern” S. When I was but a young’un, my father had a session with an agent from John Hancock Insurance which resulted in my brother and I each receiving a 9"x2" blue cardboard tube containing a rolled up image copy of the Declaration of Independence (with the large John Hancock signature at the bottom) impressed on something resembling parchment (which had a unique smell to it).        Of course I had to read it. That presented quite the challenge for an 8-year-old. The scribe used the cursive version of ʃ at seemingly random intervals, which confounded me at least at first. The cursive ʃ looks a lot like a cursive f, except the bottom sweep goes opposite to the top sweep instead of taking the same path (which is a bit like just writing a standard print s in cursive loops).        I am given to understand that the letter in German orthography, ß, is a combination of the long s with a twisted s to form a double-s. I think the Germans must do that just to piss everyone else off. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9032 "2024-02-23T06:30:15Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > The cursive ʃ looks a lot like a cursive f, The purfuit of happineff. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9033 "2024-02-23T06:54:39Z")
The [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s) has a list of rules for when the long S could be used. It wasn’t used in place of the round S anywhere, at the whim of the writer – at least it wasn’t supposed to be, although undoubtedly people made mistakes. In particular, it was never supposed to be used at the end of a word. That’s why it’s sometimes called the “medial S”. ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 7:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9034 "2024-02-23T07:50:45Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I am given to understand that the letter in German orthography, ß, is a combination of the long s with a twisted s to form a double-s. Pronounced that way (and if memory serves there was some recent official move to replace it with a double s), but originally s+z, and named “ess-zett”. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9035 "2024-02-23T07:57:22Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I am given to understand that the letter in German orthography, ß, is a combination of the long s with a twisted s to form a double-s. Not exactly: the letter ß is a combination of long “s” with a lowercase “z”. The z used to be written like this: [![](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/a9/e1/d7a9e14dcdda58d7ac8265e454b91c93.gif) ](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/a9/e1/d7a9e14dcdda58d7ac8265e454b91c93.gif) or like this: [![](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/43/a3/cb43a30e80a06a5c842e0e409f5eebb0.jpg) ](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/43/a3/cb43a30e80a06a5c842e0e409f5eebb0.jpg) so if you combine the long s and the z by writing them close to each other you get what the Germans call the ess-zett: ß Almost looks like the Greek Beta, but not quite: β > [@eschereal](#): > > I think the Germans must do that just to piss everyone else off. No, not everybody. Just the right people. ETA: Partially Ninja’d! > [@PatrickLondon](#): > > and if memory serves there was some recent official move to replace it with a double s Only in some cases, like dass instead of daß, but not in others, Straße remains Straße, but can be written Strasse if your typewriter does not include the ß. The rules are not there just to piss **eschereal** off, German children must despair too. German pedagogy is not for the faint hearted! ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9036 "2024-02-23T11:03:03Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > That is right, and the German wikipedia does not include an entry for German Chocolate Cake. **My guess is that it is unknown here,** as you cannot beat the [Sachertorte](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sachertorte) anyway. speaking of which: the world famous movie “The sound of music”, located and filmed in Austria - is nearly unknown in Austria … and there are hardly any Austrian actors playing in it. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9037 "2024-02-23T11:37:01Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > I am given to understand that the letter in German orthography, ß, is a combination of the long s with a twisted s to form a double-s. I think the Germans must do that just to piss everyone else off. well, two lost world wars does that to any language - so they came up with the “scharfes S”, and - the Beetle - Hello Opal 😉 ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9038 "2024-02-23T12:08:11Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > German pedagogy is not for the faint hearted! Ordnung muß sein! ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9039 "2024-02-23T12:45:15Z")
Correct, which is why > [@TriPolar](#): > > The purfuit of happineff. Would properly be “the purfuit of happinefs.” ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9040 "2024-02-23T13:11:30Z")
ſ ≠ f “The purſuit of happineſs” ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9041 "2024-02-23T14:59:40Z")
I juſt couldn’t be arſed to figure how to do the ſ character. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9042 "2024-02-23T16:23:58Z")
> [@markn\_1](#): > > The [Wikipedia article](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_s) has a list of rules for when the long S could be used. It wasn’t used in place of the round S anywhere, at the whim of the writer – at least it wasn’t supposed to be, although undoubtedly people made mistakes. In particular, it was never supposed to be used at the end of a word. That’s why it’s sometimes called the “medial S”. Similarly, the Greek sigma has two forms. While English “s” has initial/medial/final “ **sſs** ”, Greek has “ **σσς** ”. > **[Sigma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma)** > > Sigma (/ˈsɪɡmə/ SIG-mə; uppercase Σ, lowercase σ, lowercase in word-final position ς; Greek: σίγμα) is the eighteenth letter of the Greek alphabet. In the system of Greek numerals, it has a value of 200. In general mathematics, uppercase Σ is used as an operator for summation. When used at the end of a letter-case word (one that does not use all caps), the final form (ς) is used. In Ὀδυσσεύς (Odysseus), for example, the two lowercase sigmas (σ) in the center of the name are distinct from the ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9043 "2024-02-23T16:39:25Z")
> [@PatrickLondon](#): > > > [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > > > German pedagogy is not for the faint hearted! > > Ordnung muß sein! Ordnung iʃt das halbe Leben! ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9044 "2024-02-23T16:42:33Z")
Hey! Thif if an Englifh only meffage board. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9045 "2024-02-23T16:43:13Z")
You seem to have a lifp. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9046 "2024-02-23T16:59:25Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > “The purſuit of happineſs” Which gave me specific difficult, because it was “The Purſuit of Happineſs” – the scribe also had a vestigal germanic habit of randomly capitalizing nouns. But his “H” was stylized in a way that when I saw it, it looked to me like “Glarpinefs” (the lower-case “p” was also a problem). ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9047 "2024-02-23T17:19:00Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Ordnung iʃt das halbe Leben! > [@Pleonast](#): > > You seem to have a lifp. ohhh … ʃe Germans .. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9048 "2024-02-23T18:13:49Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The purfuit of happineff I particularly like blueberry purfuit but the store usually only carries strawberry. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9049 "2024-02-23T18:19:07Z")
You mean ſtrawberry? ---
**Author:** ![Mark\_Finn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/34f0e0/32.png) [@Mark\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mark_Finn)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2024, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9050 "2024-02-23T22:13:55Z")
The street signs of Berlin - with assorted typefaces, and various formats of the “ss”. [Street Signs of Berlin – Berlin Typography (wordpress.com)](https://berlintypography.wordpress.com/2017/03/28/street-signs-of-berlin/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674.md?page=451) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674.md?page=453)