# Tell us an interesting random fact you stumbled across (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 13, 2020, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674 "2020-04-13T03:19:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 456
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 10:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9111 "2024-02-29T10:19:58Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Just the fact that those are valid pronunciations ever is the point. Exactly. That one word accounting for the “o” is an extremely common everyday word. While some other languages do have letters or digraphs pronounced differently in different word positions, the differences are more easily understood. For example, German has the same kind of _-tion_ words, originally from French, as English. And like in English, the _ti_ in those words is pronounced differently from how it sounds in other words. But German has far fewer of these words, and their pronunciation has stayed much closer to French, retaining a generally Romance stress pattern and setting the words apart from most typical German words. By contrast, these words are far more common in English, many of them have supplanted native words for basic everyday concepts, and their pronunciation has evolved over centuries to conform to a typically Germanic stress pattern while keeping the original spelling. In German, the _-tion_ words stand out, but in English they hide in plain sight. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9112 "2024-02-29T17:07:52Z")
A lot of languages form vowel/consonant relationships which lead to variant-looking spellings. It is somewhat common for ‘i’ and ‘e’ to soften/modify the preceding vowel, whereas the other vowels do not. Particularly confusing for English speakers are words like “bacchetta”, Italian for “stick”, which has the ‘h’ in there to prevent the ‘e’ from softening the ‘c’, but to us it looks like it should have kind of the opposite effect. ‘ti’ should realistically be more like a ‘ch’ than an ‘sh’ sound, but, 'tis what 'tis. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9113 "2024-02-29T17:31:04Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > ‘ti’ should realistically be more like a ‘ch’ than an ‘sh’ sound, but, 'tis what 'tis. “ti” in words like “motion” could have gone through a historical intermediate stage where the “i” served as what I’ll call a y-glide – basically just the semivowel “y” (IPA /j/) coming after a consonant and before a vowel. An easy contrastive example in (American) English are the words “cannon” and “canyon” (note, however, that the y-glide is an aspect of pronunciation and not of spelling – see below). Anyway, that y-glide coming after a “t” can even in Modern English yield a “ch” sound (IPA /tʃ/), though today this only happens in fairly constrained phonetic environments. Since a y-glide often precedes a “u” vowel in English, you can hear the “t + y-glide = ch” (IPA /tj/ \> /tʃ/) in words like “virtue”, ritual", and “statute” _versus_ the preserved y-glide in words like “impure”, “cute”, “argue”, and “butane”. Note also the slangy abbreviation of “situation” as “sitch”. It seems reasonable that in an earlier period of spoken English, words like “motion” were once pronounced “moh-chən”. Would have to do a little research and see if this kind of pronunciation of “-tion” has been attested in earlier periods of English speech. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9114 "2024-02-29T19:08:58Z")
> [@bordelond](#): > > > [@eschereal](#): > > > > ‘ti’ should realistically be more like a ‘ch’ than an ‘sh’ sound, but, 'tis what 'tis. > > “ti” in words like “motion” could have gone through a historical intermediate stage where the “i” served as what I’ll call a y-glide – basically just the semivowel “y” (IPA /j/) coming after a consonant and before a vowel. An easy contrastive example in (American) English are the words “cannon” and “canyon” (note, however, that the y-glide is an aspect of pronunciation and not of spelling – see below). Great post! There’s also some complexities due to how French pronunciation has changed over the centuries. That language has had a parallel palatalization process\* similar to English’s. Depending on a word’s history, we have a mess of pronunciations. For example, compare “cap”, “captain”, “chapel”, “chief”, “chef” which all came into English from the same evolving French words from Latin “caput”. \*Today’s tongue twister: “parallel palatalization process”. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [February 29, 2024, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9115 "2024-02-29T19:32:38Z")
I could probably write a whole book on the development of English the relationships between pronunciation and orthography, but I think at this point I would be pushing up daisies halfway through the research phase. ---
**Author:** ![Civil\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d78d45/32.png) [@Civil\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Civil_Guy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9116 "2024-03-01T01:11:03Z")
I’d like to put in a general recommendation for [https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/](https://historyofenglishpodcast.com/). Kevin Stroud (an attorney doing this podcast as a hobby thing, I believe) has covered some or a lot of this – but it’s taken him a few years to get up to Shakespeare, with whom he’s maybe halfway through. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9117 "2024-03-01T01:51:28Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Just the fact that those are valid pronunciations ever is the point. I’ve got a first grader learning to read and write. I find a new example of how stupid the English language is every day. The position of the letters is important in determining how they’re pronounced. Is “ghost” pronounced “fist”? And the assertion was that “ghoti” would be pronounced “fish,” not that the letters have more than one pronunciation. Many letters have more than one pronunciation: “c,” for instance, and all vowels. For instance, take the “a” in cake, and say “cat” should be pronounced the same way. It’s not. There are rules governing pronunciation, which is what I’m pointing out here. “Ghoti” ignores the rules on how words are pronounced, by choosing sounds out of context. The rules can be complex when you’re learning the language, but they are there. You can’t pronounce “Luxury Yacht” as “Throatwarbler Mangrove.” ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9118 "2024-03-01T02:09:51Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > You can’t pronounce “Luxury Yacht” as “Throatwarbler Mangrove.” Well, you _can_… ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9119 "2024-03-01T02:27:29Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > But I was amazed to learn just now that, in a home where someone uses a sign language, a baby will babble with its hands. Both deaf and hearing infants do this. Parents will sometimes teach babies signs because babies are able to make the signs at an earlier age than they’re able to speak words. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9120 "2024-03-01T16:00:46Z")
Today I learned about [AT&T Long Lines](https://personal.garrettfuller.org/blog/2018/01/19/att-long-lines-a-forgotten-system/). A very ambitious, complex, and expensive communication system installed in the U.S. in the 1950s. Many of the towers still exist. [This one](https://long-lines.net/places-routes/CatawbaOH/Img_9869a.html) is only a few miles from me. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9121 "2024-03-01T18:53:18Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Today I learned about [AT&T Long Lines](https://personal.garrettfuller.org/blog/2018/01/19/att-long-lines-a-forgotten-system/). A very ambitious, complex, and expensive communication system installed in the U.S. in the 1950s. Many of the towers still exist. [This one](https://long-lines.net/places-routes/CatawbaOH/Img_9869a.html) is only a few miles from me. It looks almost stereotypical as a piece of 1950s technological hardware… somewhat like early rocket gantries used to launch Viking and V2-Aerobee rockets. ---
**Author:** ![OttoDaFe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ottodafe/32/356_2.png) [@OttoDaFe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OttoDaFe)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2024, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9122 "2024-03-01T22:54:21Z")
And now I have a new earworm: the “hiss” that accompanied (and at times nearly drowned out) microwave calls. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9123 "2024-03-02T00:09:23Z")
When Franklin Roosevelt filed his tax returns while serving as president of the United States, what did he list as his occupation? Tree farmer. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9124 "2024-03-02T00:41:19Z")
Was that because of his efforts to stabilize No Man’s Land? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9125 "2024-03-02T02:25:44Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > Was that because of his efforts to stabilize No Man’s Land? No, it was because he was a tree farmer. > [@](#): > > All in all, the Roosevelt Estate eventually grew to nearly 1,600 acres, of which 800 acres were native woods, 400 acres were orchards, pastures, tilled fields, and abandoned homes, and the remaining 400 acres were FDR’s tree plantations… > > In 1912, he became Chairman of the Forestry Committee of the New York Senate. He also purchased his first seedlings and began his venture. These would be the first of the nearly half a million trees that would be planted in the following 34 years. By the 1930s 20,000 – 55,000 trees were being planted on his land each year, a practice that continued until FDR’s death in 1945. There were even crops of Christmas trees, some of them sent to Winston Churchill. > **[Franklin D. Roosevelt: Tree Farmer - Home Of Franklin D Roosevelt National...](https://www.nps.gov/hofr/blogs/franklin-d-roosevelt-tree-farmer.htm)** ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2024, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9126 "2024-03-02T15:09:17Z")
That’s called tinnitus. 😁 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2024, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9127 "2024-03-03T23:38:38Z")
When it was a territory, entering Alaska required a travel permit. [![](https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/bobhope/images/s153a.jpg) ](https://www.loc.gov/exhibits/bobhope/images/s153a.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2024, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9128 "2024-03-03T23:41:52Z")
Put Mr. Hope’s address in Google and you get [a dumpster.](https://maps.app.goo.gl/pnKABUJVXH8eKoEa9) 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9129 "2024-03-04T00:20:39Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > When it was a territory, entering Alaska required a travel permit. It looks like it was more of a wartime restriction. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2024, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674/9130 "2024-03-04T00:38:45Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > > [@Skywatcher](#): > > > > When it was a territory, entering Alaska required a travel permit. > > It looks like it was more of a wartime restriction.  Maybe? The Library of Congress, which hosts the image, doesn’t say much: “His travel to Alaska, then a U.S. territory, required a special permit.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674.md?page=455) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-an-interesting-random-fact-you-stumbled-across-part-1/851674.md?page=457)