# Tell us what Hollywood remakes of non-english-language films were better than the ori **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 11, 2006, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002 "2006-10-11T01:09:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/21 "2006-10-11T18:34:32Z")
Ooh, **lissener** , do me next. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/22 "2006-10-11T20:34:17Z")
**Radio Days** was less innovative than **Amarcord** , but I enjoyed it more. ---
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/23 "2006-10-11T20:43:03Z")
[QUOTE=Tapioca Dextrin] Boudu sauvé des eaux became Down and Out in Beverley Hills [/QUOTE] The latter can’t even come remotely close to the Renoir, but I will argue that another Renoir, as great as it is, is just slightly eclipsed by its American remake: _La Chienne_ and Fritz Lang’s **Scarlet Street**. And as for the Kurosawa, here’s an analogy for you: _The Seven Samurai_ : _The Magnificent Seven_ as _The Magnificent Seven_ : _Battle Beyond the Stars_. ---
**Author:** ![jaderabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@jaderabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaderabbit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/24 "2006-10-11T20:48:44Z")
Dark Water. The Japanese version was a weird, sad, ghost story with some rotten special effects. The American version was more suspenseful and much sadder, though, and I liked the acting better. And for the record, I liked Ringu much better than The Ring. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/25 "2006-10-11T21:24:09Z")
::: Moderator blows whistle for attention, and mutters under his breath: perhaps “unbe-fuckin-leivable,” but it’s hard to tell for sure ::: [Shouting] NO INSULTS ARE ALLOWED IN THIS FORUM. That includes making comments about the poster, rather than the film.[/shouting] If you are indoubt, please see [Forum Rules](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=343601) and note Post #3 in that thread. **lissener** , your post (Post #6) in this thread is a violation of the rules. Your gratuitous comments about **Wendell** are uncalled for and inappropriate. You will cease and desist. **Robot Arm** , your post (Post #21) is a comment about the poster, not about the films, and is therefore out of line. PS - At the other end of the scale, thank you, **Wendell** for not responding in kind. Your restraint is noted and much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/26 "2006-10-11T21:42:19Z")
My post #6 was an attempt to make it VERY clear that I was joking; I even included a smiley. I went as over the top as possible–_mutation_?–to leave zero doubt that I was disagreeing with his opinion, but with humor. I expressed mock horror at his opinion, with as heavyhanded an emphasis on the “mock” as possible. Perhaps Wendell’s non-response was because he got that; I don’t know. Robot Arm’s sarcastic aside was an attempt to suggest that I was somehow overstepping some line by sharing my opinion of various movies in a thread that speicifically _solicited opinions about various movies_, and specifically in response to a direct question, Tapioca Dextrin’s “Any of these qualify?” I took TD’s question to mean that he had not seen the pairs of movies in question, and was therefore looking for other posters’ opinions, which I offered. Robot Arm’s sarcastic response was wildly inappropriate, given the nature of the OP and its personal nature. My post #6, if it struck anyone as straightforward outrage, and not mock outrage, I apologize. Lord knows I’ve made that mistake myself. Specifically I apologize to Wendell if he didn’t see that I was being as cartoony as I knew how. ---
**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/27 "2006-10-11T21:57:36Z")
Moderator Hat On: For the record: just because an insult is a joke doesn’t excuse it. It’s still a comment at the expense of another poster. One recalls Mel Brooks definition, that “comedy is when you slip and fall in a hole and die; tragedy is when I get a paper cut.” [paraphrased] I have had an email from **Robot Arm** explaining that his comment was because > [@](#): > > lissener made comments about a few different movies, and I wrote a defense of one of them. Quoted him and everything. He then replied to > a couple other posters in the thread but ignored me completely. My last post (#21, for which you warned me) was just meant as a gentle chiding. So, **lissener** , he wasn’t suggesting you were somehow being improper, he was expressing that his comments had been overlooked. The problem with “joke” chidings or insults is that the joke is often not seen. So, everyone was joking? Tough. The warnings still stand. A funny insult is slightly less offensive than a nasty one, but it’s still an insult. And none of those were funny. On 'tother hand, I’m glad to see that there are explanations and apologies all around. Now, back to Hollywood remakes… ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/28 "2006-10-11T21:57:55Z")
[QUOTE=lissener] Robot Arm’s sarcastic response was wildly inappropriate, given the nature of the OP and its personal nature. [/QUOTE] No, my response was because you had replied to **CalMeacham** ’s and **Tapioca Dextrin** ’s posts and ignored mine (#14) completely. I just wanted you to address my post next. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/29 "2006-10-11T21:59:14Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Despite the presence of Yul Brynner, Steve McQueen, Charles Bronson, and James Coburn, I’ll take Kurasawa’s original over the Western remake any day. “Tighter”, in this case, ain’t _better_. There’s a lot in _Shichi no Samurai_, and it’s worth keeping. Plusd, it doesn’t have Horst Buchholz. [/QUOTE] Do you mean that butchered version they usually show, or the uncut version? ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2006, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/30 "2006-10-11T22:13:01Z")
[QUOTE=CalMeacham] Despite the presence of Yul Brynner, Steve McQueen, Charles Bronson, and James Coburn, I’ll take Kurasawa’s original over the Western remake any day. “Tighter”, in this case, ain’t _better_. There’s a lot in _Shichi no Samurai_, and it’s worth keeping. Plusd, it doesn’t have Horst Buchholz. [/QUOTE] Also agreed. _The Magnificent Seven_ is one of my all-time favorite movies, and I owe it a personal debt of gratitude for taking my unisex and vaguely girlish first name and giving it to James Coburn’s knife-throwing badass. It’s no Kurosawa, though, and the extended scenes of Horst clowning are kinda thin. Apparently John Sturges thought he was going to be the next big thing and put a lot more of him doing not a whole lot in the film than he probably should have. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/31 "2006-10-12T14:17:08Z")
Wee Bairn writes: \> Well everything from the [moviefreak.com](http://moviefreak.com) Top 10 on this list has been \> mentioned, except, True Lies, which is supposedly a remake of La Totale- which \> makes sense- I always thought it was too original to be a Hollywood original, \> now I know why- it wasn’t. What Top 10 list on [moviefreak.com](http://moviefreak.com) are you talking about here? Is there a list of the top 10 remakes that are better than the original or something? I searched the [moviefreak.com](http://moviefreak.com) website for a little bit and didn’t find any such thing. Can you explain what you meant here? ---
**Author:** ![Wee\_Bairn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wee\_Bairn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wee_Bairn)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2006, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/32 "2006-10-12T14:23:54Z")
**Wendell-** [http://www.moviefreak.com/features/remakes.htm](http://www.moviefreak.com/features/remakes.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Lust4Life](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ecc23a/32.png) [@Lust4Life](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lust4Life)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/33 "2006-10-14T19:41:48Z")
[QUOTE=Quartz] How about _The Magnificent Seven_? Tighter than _The Seven Samurai_, better music too. [/QUOTE] I haven`t got a cite for this but was watching a t.v. docu.(Ithink it might have been "the Top 100 Western movies" when Kurosawa in an interview said that he`d actually based “the Seven Samurai” on a Hollywood,Western !I cant remember which one but Glenn Fords name might (a very tenuous might at that !)have been mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2006, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002/34 "2006-10-14T22:16:31Z")
Thanks for the website, Wee Bairn. Among the films mentioned on that list, the only two that I can say that the American versions are slightly better are _Sorcerer_ and _The Birdcage_. Who knows whether the original versons of _Victor/Victoria_ and _True Lies_ are better or worse, since not many people have seen them? Most of the time the American versions don’t even come close. Partly it’s because the American filmmakers decide that they can’t keep the downbeat ending of the original film, and the happy ending they add destroys the point of the film. Sometimes, as with the French farces that Hollywood insists on remaking, they cast American stars who can’t handle farce and who merely look uncomfortable in the roles they’re given. This is why _The Birdcage_ is slightly better. Robin Williams and Nathan Lane were willing to make look like fools in their roles. They’re better than the actors in the original French film. Most of the other elements of the American film are about on the same level as the French one. The reason that I think that _Sorcerer_ works slightly better than _The Wages of Fear_ is that I like the motivations given for the four main characters in the American version better than anything given in the original version. In _The Wages of Fear_, the characters are just losers who drifted into their current situations. They don’t seem to have any beliefs except that life sucks and eventually they’re going to die. The characters in the American version once believed that they had a chance of getting somewhere. They were hustlers who thought that they could get away with something but who merely managed to horribly screw up their lives. Now they’re living in exile, in something close to poverty, desperate enough to take to take on a ridiculously dangerous job in the hope that they can make enough money to get away from their hopeless situations. The characters in the French version are just more mopey French intellectuals who sit around French cafes and moan about how terrible all life is. The characters in the American version are American-style dreamers who once thought they could make a good life for themselves. They once screwed up good, but they think that now they have a second chance to redeem themselves. The irony is that it’s still useless. They’re screwed, despite everything they do. Not everything about the American version is better. They should have cast someone other than Roy Schneider in the lead role. I don’t think that _Sorcerer_ is hugely better than _The Wages of Fear_. I might rate _Sorcerer_ somewhere between the 200th and the 300th best film I’ve ever seen, while I’d rate _The Wages of Fear_ somewhere between the 400th and the 500th best. I consider _La Jetee_ to be distinctly better than _Twelve Monkeys_. I’d been praising _La Jetee_ for a couple of decades before _Twelve Monkeys_ came out. I went to a special showing locally of _Twelve Monkeys_ where Terry Gilliam spoke after the film. He said that at that point he hadn’t yet seen _La Jetee_. The screenwriters had seen it and had produced the screenplay. He signed on to the film without seeing _La Jetee_. I told him in the question-and-answer period that I thought his film wasn’t nearly as good as _La Jetee_. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-hollywood-remakes-of-non-english-language-films-were-better-than-the-ori/376002.md?page=1)