# Tell us what you know about the theory of evolution without using anything but your own brain. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419 "2010-01-10T19:51:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![hotflungwok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/edb3f5/32.png) [@hotflungwok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hotflungwok)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/41 "2010-01-11T16:05:09Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Interesting, how when the questions get hard, well just tell him it is not a debate. I think it being in “great debates” kind of weakens that argument a bit. Then a guy says well we are not at the top, yet everything that survives and reproduces after all these eons is supposed to be the winners in natural selection. Hmmmmm… There is no winner. There is just species that haven’t died out it. It’s not a process with a goal, it’s just a process. > [@](#): > > So why do we get sunburned so easy Who’s we? Go ask an African about sunburn. You get sunburned easily because your ancestors didn’t have a survival based reason to develop large amounts of melanin. > [@](#): > > and want 70 degree temp all the time Again, who’s we? Go ask an Eskimo how much he likes 70 degree temps. Then ask a desert nomad the same thing. > [@](#): > > and need cooked food, We need cooked food? Are you sure? > [@](#): > > under a “strongest, best survive” natural selection process? What do any of these things have to do with surviving long enough to pass your genes on? You haven’t named any traits that are directly affected by natural selection in humans. > [@](#): > > Where were we all those years to develop “evolve” these traits, which are so bad for living here? How would that happen if the theory is true? Why aren’t we eating a live mouse whole and loving it? I am giving my view on evolution, that it is a false theory and here is why, so I am on topic folks. Um, to be blunt, why should we care about your view? You are clearly very ignorant about evolution, and are basing your arguments on this ignorance rather than any actual knowledge. Before you dismiss evolution based on the completely ridiculous idea that we should be eating and enjoying live mice, maybe you should try learning about it and try to find out why this idea is so ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/42 "2010-01-11T16:09:44Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Then a guy says well we are not at the top, yet everything that survives and reproduces after all these eons is supposed to be the winners in natural selection. OK, maybe you’ll understand this: we _are_ at the “top”, but we share this “top” with everything else alive. We are at the top of _our_ tree, because we have evolved to fit the niche in which we evolved (and our big brains have allowed us to survive in niches for which we didn’t evolve), but a sea slug is at the top of _its_ tree too, as is a nematode worm, and a streptococcus bacterium, a cactus, and a fern - they’re all at the top of _their_ trees too. There is no purpose and no grand scheme to evolution, and no “winner”: it just is. Everything currently alive is in that position because it has failed to die out, and that includes humans. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/43 "2010-01-11T16:10:01Z")
Yeah, when you don’t have an answer, well science just shouldn’t discuss the issue. Reminds me of your alls steady state theory. Well I never got anyone to say why they can’t create even a single cell living thing in a lab using what evolution says was in the pond, water, the elements in the table, a nice 70 degree temp, light, etc. Since you all have living cells to reverse engineer, it ought to be a snap to make one. By the way, an additional evolution question about life. If it “just happens” why can’t you heat a cell till it just barely dies, but is not damaged physically and then go back to the room temperature with food all around it and have it just come back to life? I mean everything is all built so why isn’t it alive again? This assumes the cell is totally dead now, not just in a suspended state. Wouldn’t evolution theory say the cell ought to become alive again? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/44 "2010-01-11T16:10:32Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Interesting, how when the questions get hard, No offense, but your questions really aren’t all that hard. They’ve all been answered. But I do wonder about the cooked food thing. I remember starting a thread about nutrition a few years back, and I remember people posting something about that. Basically the idea was that as we developed the ability to create fire, we formed the habit of cooking food, and our digestive systems evolved to sort of depend on that. Is that not correct? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/45 "2010-01-11T16:16:14Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > MrDibble, well then under your ideas, why didn’t the white man die out then? Why should they? I’m pretty sure white men post-date the discovery of fire, clothing, tents and caves, all of which mean _Homo Blanco_ needn’t do everything under full sunlight. > [@](#): > > The problem with us developing brain instead of better abilities would make us lunch for the animals with the better organs while we were slowly getting that brainpower. Sometimes. By this “theory” of yours, there should be no lesser animals at all - why have chimps, monkeys, etc survived? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/46 "2010-01-11T16:17:18Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Yeah, when you don’t have an answer, well science just shouldn’t discuss the issue. Reminds me of your alls steady state theory. > > Well I never got anyone to say why they can’t create even a single cell living thing in a lab using what evolution says was in the pond, water, the elements in the table, a nice 70 degree temp, light, etc. Since you all have living cells to reverse engineer, it ought to be a snap to make one. > > By the way, an additional evolution question about life. If it “just happens” why can’t you heat a cell till it just barely dies, but is not damaged physically and then go back to the room temperature with food all around it and have it just come back to life? I mean everything is all built so why isn’t it alive again? This assumes the cell is totally dead now, not just in a suspended state. Wouldn’t evolution theory say the cell ought to become alive again? You know, the rules in the OP only forbid reading other posts BEFORE you make your first one. AFTER you make you first post, it’s perfectly fine to read all the responses. In fact, it might lead to more cogent and reasoned responses on your part. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/47 "2010-01-11T16:21:11Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > The problem with the random mutation idea are several, there would be so many bad changes most would die out, Exactly. > [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > and worst of all, the same bad changes would occur over and over because nothing is keeping track. Instead we see animals getting more adjusted to their environment. Predators looking for the weakest animals and environmental conditions sort of “keep track”. > [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Where is our night vision and blood hound nose and wide temperature range if we are at the top? Why do we burn up with sunburn with only a few hours exposure, animals don’t, even those with little fur, how is our skin an improvement and where would we develop such skin when the sun is everywhere? Lots and lots of holes in that evolution theory. [You mean like these guys?](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/55/US_Navy_SEALs_with_laser_designator_closeup.jpg) Our brain gives us an evolutionary advantage far superior to any other animal. It is the ability to make tools and other implements to shape and adapt to our environment. The best way I can describe evolution is this. I don’t need to outrun the bear. I just need to outrun you. IOW, I don’t need to be genetically perfect, just good enough to survive long enough to reproduce. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/48 "2010-01-11T16:22:49Z")
Once again… > [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > So why do we get sunburned so easy “We” don’t > [@](#): > > and want 70 degree temp all the time That’s pretty much the temp in the nice parts of my country all year round. > [@](#): > > and need cooked food, Can you give us some sort of justification for this “need cooked food” crap? > [@](#): > > under a “strongest, best survive” natural selection process? That is **not** the process of natural selection. NS says the **fittest** will survive, not the strongest. And by “fittest”, it means “best adapted”. Point out a more adaptable animal than man, please? > [@](#): > > Where were we all those years to develop “evolve” these traits, which are so bad for living here? South Africa, where the living is easy. > [@](#): > > Why aren’t we eating a live mouse whole and loving it? Because we can get springbok carpaccio now. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/49 "2010-01-11T16:25:32Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Well I never got anyone to say why they can’t create even a single cell living thing in a lab using what evolution says was in the pond, water, the elements in the table, a nice 70 degree temp, light, etc. Since you all have living cells to reverse engineer, it ought to be a snap to make one. Personally, I make them all the time. So do you. > [@](#): > > By the way, an additional evolution question about life. If it “just happens” why can’t you heat a cell till it just barely dies, but is not damaged physically and then go back to the room temperature with food all around it and have it just come back to life? I mean everything is all built so why isn’t it alive again? This assumes the cell is totally dead now, not just in a suspended state. Wouldn’t evolution theory say the cell ought to become alive again? It’s hard to make any sense of this, but are you implying that evolution is some form of ressurection? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/50 "2010-01-11T16:26:20Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Wouldn’t evolution theory say the cell ought to become alive again? No, it wouldn’t. Why would it? (And what has evolutionary theory got to do with the question?) ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/51 "2010-01-11T16:33:52Z")
Evolution doesn’t mean perfection. It just means that generally the things that survive will be fitter, more adapted to their environment, than those that don’t. It doesn’t mean they must be perfectly adapted, or have every ability or skill that they could use; just that they are better adapted than those which died out. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/52 "2010-01-11T16:36:12Z")
jji, it would because in that dead cell are all the same things that were present when it was alive, and nothing is “keeping track” so it would not know not to be alive again just because it died before in hotter conditions. Tdn, When you build body cells or even create a baby you always start from living material passing on its life by splitting or combining, a sperm is alive for instance. Lets se you make life out of something not alive, I don’t do that in my body, but evolution says it just happened randomly. So, explain why a dead cell does not return to life if it is otherwise not damaged when the heat is removed? All ingredients for life are in place. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/53 "2010-01-11T16:39:05Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Interesting, how when the questions get hard, well just tell him it is not a debate. No, that was specified by the OP. If you want a debate, you’re most welcome to open a separate thread in GD. If you wish to interpret this as further evasion, I’ll be delighted to open the thread for you and invite you there. Nearly everything you have said about evolution in this thread is nonsense. You’re not going to find everyone here running away from the opportunity to debate you on it. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/54 "2010-01-11T16:46:11Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > jji, it would because in that dead cell are all the same things that were present when it was alive, and **nothing is “keeping track”** so it would not know not to be alive again just because it died before in hotter conditions. What does that even mean? If you damage the structures and chemicals in a cell beyond repair, it will die. It’s absolutely sweet fanny adams to do with evolution, or abiogenesis, which is what I presume you’re hinting at, which isn’t the same thing as evolution. You need to distinguish the two if you’re going to talk about the subject. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/55 "2010-01-11T16:50:19Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > So, explain why a dead cell does not return to life if it is otherwise not damaged when the heat is removed? All ingredients for life are in place. If the heat killed it, it was damaged beyond repair. ---
**Author:** ![capeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@capeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capeo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/56 "2010-01-11T16:53:42Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > Yeah, when you don’t have an answer, well science just shouldn’t discuss the issue. Reminds me of your alls steady state theory. > > Well I never got anyone to say why they can’t create even a single cell living thing in a lab using what evolution says was in the pond, water, the elements in the table, a nice 70 degree temp, light, etc. Since you all have living cells to reverse engineer, it ought to be a snap to make one. Actually, we’re quite close to making cells in a lab. That’s just bioengineering though, and has nothing to do with evidence of evolution. > [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > By the way, an additional evolution question about life. If it “just happens” why can’t you heat a cell till it just barely dies, but is not damaged physically and then go back to the room temperature with food all around it and have it just come back to life? I mean everything is all built so why isn’t it alive again? This assumes the cell is totally dead now, not just in a suspended state. Wouldn’t evolution theory say the cell ought to become alive again? Again, this is so nonsensical that it can’t even be responded to. I must have missed the “How Evolution Makes Your Steak Come Back to Life” lesson in Biology 101. After saying something this ignorant do you really expect any debate? ---
**Author:** ![capeo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b19c9b/32.png) [@capeo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capeo)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/57 "2010-01-11T16:58:17Z")
> [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](#): > > So, explain why a dead cell does not return to life if it is otherwise not damaged when the heat is removed? All ingredients for life are in place. You’ve got to be joking? First off a single cell of a living organism is not alive and cannot live on its own so your question is stupid. Secondly, heat destroys protein bonds and major structures of the cell rendering them inoperative, so no, the ingredients of life are not in place. And none of this crap is in any way posited by evolution. Jeebus. Learn what abiogenisis is, why it has little to do with evolution, then come back with sensible questions. ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/58 "2010-01-11T17:07:08Z")
Response without reading the rest: Evolution is the physical processes by which changes happen from generation to generation - mutation and recombination. Natural selection is the process by which these changes happen. At least, most people accept that that’s how these changes happen - there are competing theories by Lamarck (who was writing before Darwin) and others. Natural selection is about survival of the fittest. This means ‘the ones that fit into their environment best,’ not the strongest, fastest ones, though obviously sometimes the strongest, fastest ones often do have advantages. In other words, the animals that have features which, in comparison to the other creatures around them, enable them to: Live a long time after sexual maturity Obtain a mate Have successful pregnancies Look after their offspring well (even if that means choosing the best place to drop their clutch of eggs then leave them to their own devices) … are more likely to be able to pass their genes on to the next generation. For example, if the animal lives in an environment where the are are bushes that produce fruit all the way from one foot up to twelve foot up, then the animal that can reach a couple of inches higher than the others around it has an advantage. While its fellows are squabbling over the lower branches our tall guy can strecth up to the extra fruit above. This animal is less likely to be killed in a fight over resources and less likely to suffer from starvation or malnutrution. The reason for the initial differences between these creatures is that, when genes are copied, sometimes mistakes are made. For example, the genes that keep a young animal growing taller might switch off later than they’re ‘supposed’ to (though that’s a gross simplification, of course). Creatures that produce sexually have another mechanism for evolution: that slightly taller animal might mate with an animal that also has slightly better depth perception, and some of their offspring will end up with both advantages. Evolution does NOT mean that ‘everything has a purpose.’ Some features of animals are not there because they offer a particular advantage, but because they don’t offer a _dis_advantage. Other features might be detrimental to an individual because they’re side-effects of a gene (or collection of genes) which can give an advantage. For example, the gene for sickle-cell anaemia, which gets passed on because carriers also have resistance against malaria. Other traits - like cancer in old age - persist partly because they don’t much affect whether the individual will be able to live a long time after sexual maturity and so on. It all takes a long, long time. One creature cannot ‘evolve’ into another - it’s something that happens across the generations. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/59 "2010-01-11T17:08:19Z")
> [@capeo](#): > > I must have missed the “How Evolution Makes Your Steak Come Back to Life” lesson in Biology 101. I remember that it had something to do with LSD. ---
**Author:** ![Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Silverstreak\_Wonder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Silverstreak_Wonder)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2010, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419/60 "2010-01-11T17:09:55Z")
Capeo, it has everything to do with evolution, if you cannot create life from non living elements then the whole theory goes right down the drain because it depends on that and just randomness to do it all. Oh and of course a single cell can be alive, ever heard of an amoeba? That is the kind of life I want to see you all build, yes you always say it is close. I heard same thing 40 years ago, any day now…yeah. They will be saying that to your grand kids too. I think when they do totally map DNA they will find there were few mutations, and those died, but rather that what developed was just choices available in the DNA code all the while, designed in other words, maybe triggered to be used by environmental factors. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-what-you-know-about-the-theory-of-evolution-without-using-anything-but-your-own-brain/524419.md?page=4)