# Tell us why Movie X should have won the Best Picture Oscar (rather than the one that actually did.) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 25, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495 "2014-08-25T20:16:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MovieMogul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f08c70/32.png) [@MovieMogul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MovieMogul)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/41 "2014-08-26T19:14:49Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Even within what actually gets nominated, of course, that’s not true: _Avatar_, for instance, was nominated for Best Picture, despite being animated. But the Academy pretends that it wasn’t. Technically not true. In order to be considered for the Animated Feature award, you need to submit your film in that category. _Avatar_ certainly qualifies and would be eligible (just as _The Smurfs_ and _Alvin and the Chipmunks_ were deemed eligible) if it had bothered to submit. But you’re right about the ghetto perception, and no feature film that is heavy on CG is going to want to compete in a “lesser” category if it has a shot at the big one. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/42 "2014-08-26T19:19:03Z")
> [@jrepka](#): > > 1996 – Apollo 13, … should have taken Best Picture ahead of Braveheart. > > Apollo 13 was a gem of a film, with great performances, especially from Kevin Bacon and Gary Sinise (that Hanks kid was pretty good as well). Ron Howard, who sometimes displays a tendency to pound you into submission with lack of subtlety, tells a simple story simply, with (relatively) little over-dramatization. Yes, much greater film. ---
**Author:** ![Kiros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/439d5e/32.png) [@Kiros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kiros)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/43 "2014-08-26T19:25:21Z")
I also agree with the last couple of people mentioning _Saving Private Ryan_… the movie as a whole is really pretty lackluster, and I have no problem with _Shakespeare in Love_ winning that year. Quick hits from a few years that were before my time, but where I’ve seen both the winner and another movie, and I’d have picked another movie (note that in all cases I’m going by movie release year rather than Academy Award Year, because it’s easier when using Wikipedia to reference): 1981: _Raiders of the Lost Ark_ instead of _Chariots of Fire_ 1990: _Goodfellas_ instead of _Dances with Wolves_ 1992: _A Few Good Men_ instead of _Unforgiven_ From 1994 on, I’ve seen at least 3 and generally more of the contenders for each year, pretty much all of them since 2006 (I’ve picked up quite the movie habit over the last decade, apparently). Some more thoughts on a few years, some of which have been touched on, some of which haven’t: 1994: _Anything Else That Was Nominated_ instead of _Forrest Gump_, because I don’t think that _Gump_ was a very good movie. I actually like _Quiz Show_ the most, but _Pulp Fiction_ probably should have been the winner for the combination of quality and what it really meant to cinema. 1997: I get why _Titanic_ won, and this was a kind of weird year overall, but I’d have preferred _Good Will Hunting_. I watched it again last week, and everything about Williams and Damon in that movie is still excellent. I also LOVE _L.A. Confidential_, which also holds up much better than _Titanic_. 2001: A few people have already mentioned _LOTR: FOTR_ over _A Beautiful Mind_, but my thoughts go back more to the “animated ghetto” complaint: I would have seriously considered _Monsters, Inc._ that year. It was a relatively weak year in general IMO, and I see no reason why a really strong animated film shouldn’t be considered against the more traditional choices. 2003: I wish _LOTR_ had won for one of its more deserving movies so that _Lost in Translation_ could have pulled down this year. People seem to either really like or really dislike _Lost_, and I’m on the “pro” side. Also, looking at the nom list, _Master and Commander_ and _Seabiscuit_? Really?! Over _Finding Nemo_ and _Kill Bill Vol. 1_, among many, many others? _throws hands up in frustration_ I don’t totally hate _Crash_, and I think _Brokeback Mountain_ has a great message and some great performances, but has a lot of weaknesses as a film. 2011: Probably _The Tree of Life_? How did, like, six of those nine movies even get nominated? 2009 and 2010 were so stacked, and then this is our list for 2011? This is the kind of year where if we’re listing 10, I’d think about sneaking in some really well done blockbusters like _Mission Impossible: Ghost Protocol_ or _X-Men: First Class_. Also, even more seriously, _Attack the Block_? _Drive_? _Shame_? 2011 was not a weak year at all, but that nomination list makes it look like one. 2012: _Zero Dark Thirty_ and _Silver Linings Playbook_ are two dramatically different movies that both had me thinking “Wow, that’s one of the best movies I’ve ever seen” when I left the theater. I’d have voted for either one of them in about 90% of the years in the past two decades. _Django Unchained_ was brilliant and is my favorite Tarantino movie after _Pulp Fiction_. _Beasts of the Southern Wild_ was also spectacular and could have won some of the weaker years here. _Argo_ was… a pretty good movie. I really think that in 20 years when we’re looking back, we’ll feel about 2012 the way people now feel about 1994. Thanks for getting me to spend way too long typing about movies! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/44 "2014-08-26T19:36:35Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > My nominee for switching would be 1970, when _Patton_ won over both _MASH_ and _Five Easy Pieces_. The only thing _Patton_ is remembered for these days is the opening speech, whereas both of the other films have become part of our cultural consciousness. I disagree. I feel _Patton_ has held up better than _MASH_ or _Five Easy Pieces_. _MASH_ and _Five Easy Pieces_ were about the culture of the late sixties (even though _MASH_ was set in the early fifties) so they’ve lost a lot of relevance to modern audiences. _Patton_ was about a character not a time period so its story is still relevant. I’ll grant you that this is arguing which film has a better place in film history, which isn’t the same as arguing which film should have won the Oscar back in 1971. Maybe there should be a new Oscar category: Best Film Made Ten Years Ago Now That We’ve Had Time To Think About It. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/45 "2014-08-26T19:41:59Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe there should be a new Oscar category: Best Film Made Ten Years Ago Now That We’ve Had Time To Think About It. So let it be written. So let it be done! ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/46 "2014-08-26T20:05:23Z")
> [@Sir\_T-Cups](#): > > I really hope that you had that sitting already, and that you didn’t create that whole big thing just to prove my igorant and opinionated ass wrong :eek: Not to continue the threadjack, but yes, I did have that spreadsheet done already - I think I did it in 2012, updated for the 2012 films (in 2013) and I updated it this year, only to lose my updates in a HD crash that occurred a couple of days later. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/47 "2014-08-26T20:59:50Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > So let it be written. So let it be done! Ironically, _The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King_ has held up pretty well and could win this year’s Retro-Oscar. But no way is _Crash_ taking next year’s award. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/48 "2014-08-26T22:01:00Z")
Among the most recent nominees, _12 Years a Slave_ was the fourth or fifth best. It was a moving story, but a rather unexceptional film. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2014, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/49 "2014-08-26T22:10:41Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Among the most recent nominees, _12 Years a Slave_ was the fourth or fifth best. It was a moving story, but a rather unexceptional film. Yeah, I saw it and could only give it a mild thumb’s up. It was only OK for me and I entered with an open mind. I still insist Riddick was the best movie of 2013. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/50 "2014-08-27T02:53:12Z")
I just want to go on record ahead of time as saying they actually _did_ get it right at the 1978 Awards. _Annie Hall_ was a vastly superior movie to _Star Wars_. Really. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/51 "2014-08-27T06:03:40Z")
> [@CaptMurdock](#): > > 1983: **Terms of Endearment** beats out **The Big Chill**. For the love of Og, _why?_ An overly mushy melodramatic soap opera of a movie. Even if you love Jack Nicholson’s performance (and he did deserve that Oscar)… seriously, it’s a movie you see once, put it back in its case on the shelf and never crack it open again. > > **The Big Chill** , I still watch at least once a year. You’ve got the right loser, but the wrong winner. **The Right Stuff** should have been Best Picture. It works as a satire (of the times) and an adventure (of the astronauts and pilots); and each part making the other work better. It’s an epic, but with moments of reflection, too. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/52 "2014-08-27T11:22:53Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I just want to go on record ahead of time as saying they actually _did_ get it right at the 1978 Awards. _Annie Hall_ was a vastly superior movie to _Star Wars_. Really. Bull. Shit. Annie Hall was a a well made relationship comedy. Star Wars was an epic that changed moviemaking forever (and the change started in 77, so its not like the Academy didn’t see it). ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/53 "2014-08-27T12:32:18Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Bull. Shit. Annie Hall was a a well made relationship comedy. Star Wars was an epic that changed moviemaking forever **Annie Hall** kept surreally knocking the audience off-balance, though: approaching a couple on the street to ask why they seem so happy together, only to hear her reply that _I’m shallow and empty and have no ideas_ before her boyfriend chimes in with a well-timed _I’m exactly the same way_; or Alvy and Annie having a conversation about one thing while the subtitles reflect something else entirely; or the boor prompting our hero to produce McLuhan for the You Know Nothing Of My Work quip – followed by Alvy of course turning to address the audience, like he does throughout the film, whenever he isn’t turning into a rabbi at Easter dinner before _that_ goes split-screen for a hypothetical Tell You The Truth, Neither Do We chat – and et cetera, plus whatever; it’s all got more than a touch of the whacko to it. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/54 "2014-08-27T14:21:16Z")
**Stars Wars** was a hack job. **Annie Hall** totally deserved the win. And the less said about the “acting” in **Star Wars** the better. This is coming from someone who saw the movie 26 times in the theater during its initial run, too. ---
**Author:** ![Mixolydian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@Mixolydian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mixolydian)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/55 "2014-08-27T14:37:54Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Among the most recent nominees, _12 Years a Slave_ was the fourth or fifth best. It was a moving story, but a rather unexceptional film. Agreed. Out of the ones I saw (missed _Philomena_, _Nebraska_, and _Her_) I really felt _Dallas Buyers Club_ was the best of the bunch. Comparing the two, while both were based on real-life events, with the protagonist(s) struggling against nearly-insurmountable odds, I was much more immersed in DBC, and my “suspension of disbelief” was wholly realized. ---
**Author:** ![Sir\_T-Cups](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Sir\_T-Cups](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sir_T-Cups)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/56 "2014-08-27T14:55:41Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Maybe there should be a new Oscar category: Best Film Made Ten Years Ago Now That We’ve Had Time To Think About It. > [@silenus](#): > > So let it be written. So let it be done! Over on ESPN/Grantland, The Sports Guy Bill Simmons has said for years that they should give the Oscars 5 years removed from the actual year so that the movies and their legacies can resonate ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/57 "2014-08-28T03:16:05Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > **Annie Hall** kept surreally knocking the audience off-balance, though: approaching a couple on the street to ask why they seem so happy together, only to hear her reply that _I’m shallow and empty and have no ideas_ before her boyfriend chimes in with a well-timed _I’m exactly the same way_; or Alvy and Annie having a conversation about one thing while the subtitles reflect something else entirely; or the boor prompting our hero to produce McLuhan for the You Know Nothing Of My Work quip – followed by Alvy of course turning to address the audience, like he does throughout the film, whenever he isn’t turning into a rabbi at Easter dinner before _that_ goes split-screen for a hypothetical Tell You The Truth, Neither Do We chat – and et cetera, plus whatever; it’s all got more than a touch of the whacko to it. > [@silenus](#): > > **Stars Wars** was a hack job. **Annie Hall** totally deserved the win. And the less said about the “acting” in **Star Wars** the better. This is coming from someone who saw the movie 26 times in the theater during its initial run, too. Indeed. The wife and I still revisit _Annie Hall_, with each viewing eagerly anticipated. Not being an adolescent fanboy, I don’t care if I ever see _Star War_ again. (And I saw _Star Wars_ 19 times when it first came out.) ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/58 "2014-08-28T03:25:01Z")
I’ll also express love for **Annie Hall**. There is just so much crazy, inventive stuff in there. I do love me some **Star Wars** as well, but its not nearly as well made a film. ---
**Author:** ![42fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/b487fb/32.png) [@42fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42fish)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/59 "2014-08-28T14:21:49Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I just want to go on record ahead of time as saying they actually _did_ get it right at the 1978 Awards. _Annie Hall_ was a vastly superior movie to _Star Wars_. Really. Maybe that should be the follow-up thread: “Tell us when the Academy actually got it right.” Anyway, since the Academy’s recent ‘what were they thinking?’ moments are largely covered, let’s go back… 1931 Won: **Cimarron**. The Oklahoma land rush scenes are exciting visuals. After that, it settles into a ho-hum soap of Irene Dunne’s rise in society. Shoulda Won: **City Lights**. One of Chaplin’s masterpieces. Not even nominated, presumably thanks to anti-silent film bias. 1933 Won: **Cavalcade**. Noel Coward’s drama plays as a shorter – but far less interesting – episode of “Upstairs, Downstairs” Shoulda Won: **King Kong**. Holds up to repeated viewing and Willis O’Brien’s stop-motion effects remain unexpectedly convincing. Even with ten nominees, the Academy overlooked the grandaddy of all “big critter goes wild in the city” films. (Close second: **Duck Soup**. The Marx Brothers at their anarchic peak. Unfortunately, between being a comedy and a box office flop during its initial release, there was no way the Academy was going to touch it.) ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2014, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495/60 "2014-08-28T15:19:05Z")
> [@42fish](#): > > 1933 > Won: **Cavalcade**. Noel Coward’s drama plays as a shorter – but far less interesting – episode of “Upstairs, Downstairs” > Shoulda Won: **King Kong**. Holds up to repeated viewing and Willis O’Brien’s stop-motion effects remain unexpectedly convincing. Even with ten nominees, the Academy overlooked the grandaddy of all “big critter goes wild in the city” films. > (Close second: **Duck Soup**. The Marx Brothers at their anarchic peak. Unfortunately, between being a comedy and a box office flop during its initial release, there was no way the Academy was going to touch it.) One of the chapters of Goldner and Turner’s excellent book **The Making of King Kong** was entitled “Remember _Cavalcade_?”, complaining about the way Kong was passed over by the awards. I haven’t seen much of Cavalcade, so I can’t address it on its merits\*, but I suspect having an effects-heavy action film win over a Noel Coward drama would’ve been a hard sell in 1933, even if King Kong is, in retrospect, clearly a more influential film. It also arguably saved RKO from its financial woes. It’s not really the grand-daddy of “Creature on the Loose” films. It was preceded by Willis O’Brien’s own **The Lost World** , with its brontosaurus run amuck in London, and by Wnsor McKay’s truly ground-breaking **The Giant Pet**. But it’s probably the most influential of them all. Kong should’ve won _some_ award. As Goldner (who was one of the effects workers on the film) and Turner point out, the film was the first to extensively use some new effects innovations, and definitely WAS the first for some others (like miniature rear-screen projection). But in 1933 there was no major category for “Best Special Effects”, and I don’t know which, if any, technical awards they were giving. Willis O’Brien definitely deserved an award, but he was denied any over the following years. **Mighty Joe Young** got an award for Best Special Effects – they had the category by 1950 – but it went to the producers, not O’Brien. O’Brien evidently did get a statue, though. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tell-us-why-movie-x-should-have-won-the-best-picture-oscar-rather-than-the-one-that-actually-did/696495.md?page=4)