# Telling children Santa exists...right or wrong? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 5, 2009, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077 "2009-12-05T06:29:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/61 "2009-12-07T02:40:02Z")
Maintaining “childhood innocence”, whatever that is, can be taken to silly and ignorant extremes. I just found this week in casual conversation with some of the people who work under me that one of them carefully censors ALL books, television programs, movies, and internet content which might show…wait for it…ANY animal or person dying. His kid is 5 and Dad is still trying his best to pretend like death does not exist. I asked him how long he was going to try to keep this up, and his response was “as long as it takes! Children don’t need to know about dying!” I started to say something, but before I did another co-worker said they were pursuing the exact, same strategy, and they were “really worried that (their kid, age 4) was figuring it out.” He said he had to drag the kid out of the film _Up_ at the start of it, because apparently it has a scene with someone dying. And he confiscated the _Finding Nemo_ DVD for a similar reason. So I asked when they were going to tell their kids that the hamburgers and Chicken McNuggets they stuff their faces with almost daily were dead animals, and they both gave me that “look.” AND, since most childed persons react with hostility when I try to comment on parenting, I figured it was time to change the subject and talk about their annual performance reviews. 🙂 But I wonder how these folks are going to handle it when the kids learn about history in school. “Dad, why isn’t George Washington the President any more? Can we go see him?” “Oh, he went to a magical place, with Frodo and Bilbo and the rest of the elves.” ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/62 "2009-12-07T02:48:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > I’ve heard people say they were, at least at the time. And I’ve heard of parents being traumatized when the kids ask questions like “You lied to me about Santa. How do I know you aren’t lying…” “Traumatized” is not synonymous with “disappointed.” You become traumatized because your wife is murdered, or you’re sexually assaulted, or you’ve seen combat. You don’t become traumatized by finding out Santa Claus isn’t real. That’s silly bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/63 "2009-12-07T02:53:31Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > I lie to my neighbour’s children every chance I get. Sometimes the little nippers even believe me. If you can’t mess with a young mind, what good are you? That was sort of our take on Santa, actually - with our own children. It was a repeated game, with clues, that they needed to figure out…they did, in time with logic skills - for which we praised them for being so smart and let them feel very grown up for knowing the “secret.” Which we then explained was a secret. We never told them Santa was “real” but we never told them he wasn’t either - until they asked the direct question. We asked “what do you think?” We told them Santa was magic. We told them magic wasn’t real. It was a exercise in logic, in figuring stuff out, and in growing up. Just like when they figured out food doesn’t magically appear on grocery store shelves (we went to a farm). They aren’t born knowing “facts” or “the truth” - and its worthwhile to encourage them to develop the skills to figure out what is “the truth” for themselves. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/64 "2009-12-07T02:54:47Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > “Traumatized” is not synonymous with “disappointed.” > > You become traumatized because your wife is murdered, or you’re sexually assaulted, or you’ve seen combat. You don’t become traumatized by finding out Santa Claus isn’t real. That’s silly bullshit. Some people are more fragile than others. What are you, some kind of fragilist? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/65 "2009-12-07T03:44:43Z")
You can always tell your children that you’re going to make believe that there’s a magical Santa who delivers presents on Christmas Eve. Children are remarkably good at playing make believe. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/66 "2009-12-07T04:48:50Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Some people are more fragile than others. What are you, some kind of fragilist? We all have our prejudices, you fragilistist. ---
**Author:** ![Algher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Algher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Algher)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/67 "2009-12-07T05:08:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > My parents never admitted it. They still haven’t. > When my oldest daughter figured it out, I told her that there was really a St. Nicholas, who really did give presents to children and that “Santa” is now something that parents perpetuate in his spirit to make Christmas fun and magical for chidren. I also told her that we could now enlist her to keep up the fun for her sisters. She liked the idea of being in on the secret, and being trusted as the oldest that way. > Santa is harmless. Show me a grown adult who’s actually still emotionally wounded over finding out there’s no Santa, and I’ll show you the world’s biggest pussy. I hereby agree 100% with \*\*Dio \*\*(on this subject). In my house, those that profess a belief in Santa STILL get presents. Those that insist on a cold, rational, and bitter view don’t get anything from Santa. My kids are older, know the rules, and we still have a blast with the holidays. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/68 "2009-12-07T05:13:09Z")
> [@Napier](#): > > What? Why not “Look what a good job you did! Let’s put that on the refrigerator!” I mean, assuming that you think your kid trying to draw is a good thing, assuming he could be doing a good job of trying and progressing, you don’t have to lie to praise him, do you? Yeah, you pretty much do. If they ask you if their picture is beautiful, you have to lie. If you tell them they did a good job of “trying,” they know that means the picture sucks. Also, what if they didn’t even try hard? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/69 "2009-12-07T05:17:35Z")
> [@Una\_Persson](#): > > Maintaining “childhood innocence”, whatever that is, can be taken to silly and ignorant extremes. I just found this week in casual conversation with some of the people who work under me that one of them carefully censors ALL books, television programs, movies, and internet content which might show…wait for it…ANY animal or person dying. His kid is 5 and Dad is still trying his best to pretend like death does not exist. I asked him how long he was going to try to keep this up, and his response was “as long as it takes! Children don’t need to know about dying!” I started to say something, but before I did another co-worker said they were pursuing the exact, same strategy, and they were “really worried that (their kid, age 4) was figuring it out.” He said he had to drag the kid out of the film _Up_ at the start of it, because apparently it has a scene with someone dying. And he confiscated the _Finding Nemo_ DVD for a similar reason. There’s a famous legend from India about a dad who tried that with his kid, and succeeded in hiding death from him until he was an adult. That kid went on to become the Buddha. So maybe these kids will all beome Awakened Ones too. ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/70 "2009-12-07T07:23:33Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Some people are more fragile than others. What are you, some kind of fragilist? Yes he is, and a super-callous fragilist at that. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/71 "2009-12-07T07:44:00Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Yes he is, and a super-callous fragilist at that. OK, this thread is now over. Everyone go home. ---
**Author:** ![DameDamask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8baadc/32.png) [@DameDamask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DameDamask)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/72 "2009-12-07T07:56:10Z")
As an only child, my parents actively promoted belief in Santa. I wrote him letters and left him milk and cookies… the whole nine yards. My parents signed about half of my presents with the name “Santa”. That is how I figured it out, I think around age 5 or 6. I noticed that the handwriting was the same as my Mom’s. Then, the next Christmas, I stayed up and heard them bustling around downstairs. I peeked and watched while they set up the display of presents under the tree, and that was my confirmation. I don’t remember ever being sad at all - I was maybe a touch disappointed, but mostly proud of how clever I was that I figured it out on my own. What as asshole I was. 🙂 I agree that it teaches a certain lesson about the “infallible” authority of the parents in a non-threatening way, much like The Lion King and Bambi and Up teach us about death in a non-threatening way. Boy, are those kids going to be horrified when their first experience with death IS death. Anyway, maybe the kids who get the most upset needed the lesson the most. Plus, it’s so fun, and you get to sort of relive that magic (gag, I know) every year. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 10:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/73 "2009-12-07T10:48:32Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Yes he is, and a super-callous fragilist at that. Win. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/74 "2009-12-07T11:51:19Z")
When my older brother and sister (about 5 and 6 at the time) started to ask my extremely religious parents if Santa was like Jesus, they freaked and told them that Santa was fake, but Jesus was real. The parents also told them to not tell my sister and I (4 and 3, respectively – there were a bunch of us bunched up), and since young kids are really good keepers of secrets, I grew up never believing in Santa. I remember an argument on the subject with a friend in first grade, but he didn’t believe me. Apparently I didn’t have any more credibility back then. We’ll pretend about Santa with our daughter when she’s old enough. If that is the worst thing which happens in her childhood, I’ll be satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/75 "2009-12-07T11:56:59Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > In my house, those that profess a belief in Santa STILL get presents. Those that insist on a cold, rational, and bitter view don’t get anything from Santa. _Nobody_ gets anything from Santa, they get things from Mom and Dad. Why would you make that dependent on their willingness to lie about believing in an imaginary flying fat man? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/76 "2009-12-07T12:07:26Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > In my house, those that profess a belief in Santa STILL get presents. Those that insist on a cold, rational, and bitter view don’t get anything from Santa. My kids are older, know the rules, and we still have a blast with the holidays. How would you know if they are or not? You are literally rewarding them with presents for lying. Of course they’ll act like they are enjoying themselves, no matter what. And naturally, we see the standard rhetoric that “rational” means “cold and bitter”. While lies bring happiness. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/77 "2009-12-07T17:50:01Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > In my house, those that profess a belief in Santa STILL get presents. Those that insist on a cold, rational, and bitter view don’t get anything from Santa. My kids are older, know the rules, and we still have a blast with the holidays. Holy cow. _Punishing_ pragmatism and honesty: the new Christmas spirit! At my parent’s house, we all pretend there is a santa, and we all know it’s bull, but it’s fun bull so we do it anyway. However if somebody lets slip that they don’t believe reindeer can exceed the speed of sound, we don’t get all punitive on them; it’s a game we’re playing and doesn’t need punishment. And if I ever have a kid, I’ll keep playing the aforementioned game, and if the kid ever actually asked if it’s real or if I believe it, I’ll do the “what do you think” thing. I wouldn’t expect to raise any dumb kids, so would my active backing of belief in the myth I expect they’d have it all figured out before _too_ long. ---
**Author:** ![kingpengvin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9dc877/32.png) [@kingpengvin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kingpengvin)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/78 "2009-12-07T18:24:50Z")
I know what the consquences of lying about Santa, the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny are. A few of us even made a video about it based on a true story. If you have a few minutes maybe you too can learn a valuable lesson. [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkXlnNA-vq8) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/79 "2009-12-07T18:43:51Z")
What about the Christmas Krampus? 😃 > **[Krampus](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krampus)** > > Krampus is a horned, anthropomorphic figure in the Central and Eastern Alpine folklore of Europe who, during the Advent season, scares children who have misbehaved. Assisting Saint Nicholas, or Santa Claus, the pair visit children on the night of 6 December, with Saint Nicholas rewarding the well-behaved children with gifts such as oranges, dried fruit, walnuts and chocolate, while the badly behaved ones only receive punishment from Krampus with birch rods. Krampus day itself, on the other hand... ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2009, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077/80 "2009-12-07T19:11:25Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > One reason why I have no fondness for the whole idea of childhood innocence. I’d far prefer that they were born knowing at least basic facts about the world, so they wouldn’t be such easy victims. Innocence of the childhood variety is just a pretty word for ignorance. BWAHAHAHAHA!!! You’d prefer that kids were _born_ “knowing” at least basic facts about the world? **You** obviously don’t know one basic fact - kids aren’t _born_ knowing anything other than basic physical processes like swallowing and shitting. Let me guess: You’re younger than 30 with no kids of your own? (And, no, the “I’ve babysat my sister/brother/friends kids so I know what I’m talking about” line ain’t gonna play here). At least I got a good laugh out of this post. Didn’t learn a damn thing, but it was sure as hell funny! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/telling-children-santa-exists-right-or-wrong/520077.md?page=5)